'00 700 Twin-crank Failure [Archive] - Snowmobile World : Your #1 Snowmobile Forum

: '00 700 Twin-crank Failure


garett
03-17-2003, 08:59 PM
My motor locked up 8 miles into the sled's first trip this year. I took the sled into my dealer (Ron and Brian's in Waukegan, IL) and Brian confirmed the damage, a mag side bearing locked up. I let Brian know that I was very aware of this issue on the '00 700 twins, and I would like to pursue warranty on the repairs. I argued that Ski-Doo knew of the problems and never recalled the machines. He agreed and began discussions with the service rep. but was told it was too many months out of warranty and they weren't willing to help.

Brian also said he was referred to a different part number for an updated crank with new flywheel weights.
My cost was almost $1,400 U.S. for just the crank.

I then called Ski-Doo customer service and stated my case to them, and also argued that the updated crank proves that there were issues with that motor. Got the same response-no help.

Went back to the dealer and asked how I could fix my existing crank so this would not happen again. He wasn't sure if there was anything that could be done and called the service rep. again. The rep. said that if I rebuild this crank it will probably happen again. Brian argued that it wasn't fair to tell a customer he couldn't do routine maintenance on his existing crank and has to spend an extra $1400 to properly fix the sled. The rep. agreed and authorized a warranty crank(part only).

The repairs included a case modification also. The oil port for the mag side bearings gets plugged off. Just the opposite of what you'd think. They told me that the isoflex grease that is packed into the bearings is a permanent grease and the fuel/oil mixture washes it out.
While the sled was apart I had new pistons and wrist pins/bearings installed.
Oh, by the way, that isoflex grease I mentioned? $58.28
pistons? $164.77 ea.
gasket set was $175.07
All said and done parts and labor was $1,129.61 with Ski-Doo paying for the crank. Ouch.

I couldn't be happier with Ron and Brian's dealership. Brian spent a LOT of time trying to get warranty for me, and I didn't even buy this sled from him. The last time I talked to him he had two more 700's with the same problem and Ski-Doo is giving him a hard time about warranty two weeks after they O.K.d mine. Go figure.

I hope this helps someone else get warranty. They should have recalled them in the first place, and I would still have $1,129.61 in the bank.

Garett.

MADinAK
03-17-2003, 10:58 PM
Great info - appreciate you sharing with all. Your story proves the old saying "a squeaky wheel gets oiled". No pun intended.

Papas MachZ
03-18-2003, 08:35 AM
How many miles did you have on it when it locked up?

permafrost
03-18-2003, 10:24 AM
MY 00 mxz 700 locked the crank up at 700 kliks in the middle of Chandos lake. Had to walk for miles in deep powder :cussing: Bombi is usually pretty good on warranty problems, but i admit you do have to get on the horn yourself. Not to bad considering that it is the end of the 03 season.

garett
03-18-2003, 08:48 PM
Papa's MachZ-

Sled had around 2000 mi.

One of the other sleds I saw at the dealer had around 3300mi.

Revguy
03-24-2003, 09:36 PM
The problem you had with your sled is simple. You may think this is far fetched but this is true. The REAL reason why the mag side bearings on the 700 twins in 2000 were failing is because there was no ground wire from the motor to the chassis. Mercury snowmobiles had this same problem back in the 70's. As far as the isoflex grease, fuel/oil does not wash it out, the grease is from the aircraft industry and it is made to last about 10,000 kms (6250 miles) or more. The oil cavity thing is just something that someone started a long time ago when Doo had problems with the 3 cylinders in 1998. Simple cure - Isoflex grease and pre-mix your fuel with every fill (forever) ! You will see your engine last longer if you premix (1 cup full of oil per tank), especially for cold starts and snow ingestion. Take my word for it, this really WORKS !

tb2
03-26-2003, 08:04 PM
Revguy the fuel oil mix DOES wash out the isoflex grease. I just pulled apart a 00 700 that had the mag bearing packed last season and this season the grease was gone.

Vulcan 1500
03-27-2003, 08:41 PM
I lost the mag side bearing on my 2000 700 in February, got it rebuilt
locally for $851.00. After reading some of the comments on that grease issue, is this something to worry about? I don't want to go through this B.S. again. The money was bad enough, but I lost three weeks' riding
in the best winter here in years........

hillpounder
03-27-2003, 09:23 PM
shadowman, it depends on what bearings were used when your crank was rebuilt. If they were the '00 bearings and the oil feed hole was left open (or enlarged) your OK, just the oil pump adj good and fat. If your crank was rebulit with the update bearings then the oil hole should have been plugged. if you have your parts reciept you can check, one the (update) bearings was about $60, the other $35. If it was rebulit using the '00 spec both bearings were about $35.

LB700
03-28-2003, 11:47 AM
I lost the mag side bearing on my 2000 700 in February, got it rebuilt
locally for $851.00. After reading some of the comments on that grease issue, is this something to worry about? I don't want to go through this B.S. again. The money was bad enough, but I lost three weeks' riding
in the best winter here in years........

I had the EXACT same thing happen to me, at about the same time (cost $1000 Canadian).

My problem now, is that the sled is starting to make the same noises as it did when it went the first time. It only has about 6,000 Km on it since the factory rebuild. Sounds like a Polaris when you back off on the gas, and I thought it was a clutch or chaincase problem at first.

The mag side, and the PTO side bearing sound just slightly rougher than the center bearings now through the stethescope, and I'm wondering if I should rebuild it now, or hope it lasts another season.

I guess it's a stupid question -- of course I should rebuild it, but I just don't want to if I don't have to.

hillpounder
03-28-2003, 11:26 PM
If it's making new noises I'd split it open and take a looksee. I've tore 3 '00's down and they all had at least 2 bad main bearings.

Revguy
03-29-2003, 02:52 PM
Hey tb2, if you had Isoflex grease wash out on your sled, you probably had someone not pack it in the bearings properly. I checked with a Bombardier service representative and Fuel and Oil does NOT wash out whatsoever. Let's face it, grease does not wash out from fuel or oil. Where the hell do you guys get these weird ideas from ? 2 stroke engines are not rocket science ! Isoflex grease is from the aircraft industry and if that grease can withstand jet fuel, than regular unleaded is a piece of cake ! Make sure your dealer (or the person rebuilding your engine) is packing those bearings with Isoflex as per Bombardier recommendations and use the newer style bearings that are not steel cage bearings. Some backyard mechanics thing steel cage bearings are better, but they are proven not to be better !

tb2
03-29-2003, 03:34 PM
Must be my imagination then revguy. I dont care if you dug up Einstien and asked him yourself what would happen. This was a rebuilt crank straight from skidoo. Bearings were packed when it was put together, and it was gone in the mag side when I took it apart. Must have been useing some special high tech space shuttle racing fuel to wash the grease out then huh?. I got a tip for ya,,,, dont believe everything you hear from some self called expert. By the way how many cranks have you put in with or without isoflex? Been dozens for me.

rosco
03-30-2003, 10:49 PM
REVGUY,
I would have to disagree with your theory regarding the isoflex grease not washing out. Any grease will be washed out if it is constantly being rinsed down by a fluid. Also I would like to know where in the Aircraft industry this grease is being used as I have 15yrs experience as an Aircraft Maintenance Engineer and a previous 2yrs experiance working in an Turbine Engine overhaul shop and never heard of Isoflex grease until I bought a Ski-Doo. Also I would be very interested to know were jet fuel (refined Kerosene ) comes in contact with Grease any any Aircraft.

hillpounder
03-31-2003, 12:05 AM
rosco, agree with you, the bearings that doo greases are sealed from the fuel air mix, or at least should be. I did a bunch of research on the Kluber greases trying to find a cheaper source (I did BTW) than doo. Some of the isoflex products are in fact used on helicopter rotor drives and carry a mil and nato spec for such use. Never saw anything on turbine but that doesn't mean anything. High speed machinery and oil less clean air compressors, robotics etc. Doo actaully uses 2 different greases, 1 for the bearings and another for the seals.The bearing grease has a impressive 'meets spec" rating of 1000hrs @ 10,000rpms. Of course 10,000rpm aint $hit to you turbine guys LOL

Revguy
04-03-2003, 02:39 PM
tb2, just in case you are wondering, I work for a Ski-Doo dealer and it would blow your mind how many cranks we pack Isoflex grease and we NEVER see them come back. We have been doing this process since 1998. If Doo's engineers found a problem with using this grease, don't you think that they wouldn't put it on any of their sleds ? Another problem with the grease probably getting washed out is today's fuel contains alot more detergents (i.e fuel injector cleaner), it continuously cleans inside the motor, that's why I am suggesting to premix your fuel so the motor keeps getting lubricated and thus having less piston scuffing upon start up. Don't get upset at me if I am speaking the truth, but then again, the truth hurts........................lol
Rebuilt cranks don't mean that you won't have any more problems, you HAVE to adapt to today's standards, like premixing the fuel -------- is this so hard for you to understand ? Oil goes a long way !

tb2
04-03-2003, 11:53 PM
revguy dont feel bad your not the first guy I know of who works at a dealership that couldnt find his own a$$ with both hands. Reread all the posts and comeback and do some more back pedalling.

800storm
04-04-2003, 10:24 PM
i HAVE 2000 MXZ 700 WITH 4000 MILES ON IT .iT JUS STARTED MAKING THIS NOISE I NEVER HEARD BEFORE KINDA RASPE DOES DO IT AT FIRST BUT AFTER RIDING 10 TO 30 MILES IT STARTS .WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK IS THE BEST FIX GOING TO PROBABLY PUT NEW BEAERINGS IN HER ANT WAYS WITH 4000 MILES ALSO BOUGHT MINE FROM RON AND BRIANS

tb2
04-05-2003, 12:03 AM
800storm, That noise could very well be a heat shield rattleing on either the expansion chamber or the muffler.

800storm
04-05-2003, 01:26 AM
i HOPE IT IS THE HEAT SHEILD. iT SEEMS THE SLED IS LOADER NOW iT HAS 4000 MILES ON IT DO YOU THINK THE PACKING IS GETTING LOOSE. WHAT ABOUT REPLACING THE BEARINGS SHOULD CHANGE THEM NOW AT 4000 MILES REPLACE RINGS ETC ANY THING ELSE .TOU GUY SUGEST

mxz crazed
04-05-2003, 11:25 AM
Guy's your scaring the hell out of me! I've got 7800 miles on my oo 700 mxz no problem yet. Did they use the same bearing all threw that production year. Idid notice my production number is in the low three hundreds.

tb2
04-05-2003, 12:30 PM
mxzcrazed, I went through the same fear as you. To much reading about only the negatives. I think the biggest problem was that the 00s came through with the oil pump set WAY to lean, and some didnt got their sled back for the bulletins update to increase oil pump setting, or ran it this way and damaged the bearings b4 they got it back for the update. I think improper summer storage and inadequate warm up time are great contributors towards failure also. I would say just run it and dont worry about it. I there is a problem then deal with it.

LB700
04-05-2003, 01:58 PM
800storm...

Can you explain the noises you are hearing from your sled now?

When mine first went, it sounded like a clutch backshifting sound when I let off on the gas, except that it seemed to be coming from the right side of the sled. It sounded fine all other times, and the engine felt smooth, and ran fine (until it locked up).

It's making the same sound again now -- I was hoping it would have lasted a LOT longer than it did, and I don't think the updates were good enough.

mxz crazed
04-05-2003, 03:46 PM
tb2 there might be a lot to be said about summer storage. My versen of summer storage is start the sled ever two weeks and sometimes drive it around the lawn. I've had good luck with my 96 f3 8500 miles and 00 700 mxz.7800 miles. thanks mxz crazed

800storm
04-05-2003, 04:04 PM
HEY LB 700 IT SOUNDS KINDA RASPE COMING FROM THE CLUTCH SIDE I THINK .BUT ONLY SEEMS TO DO IT WHEN RIDING FOR AWHILE MAYBE JUST FREAKIN OUT . ITHINK IM GOING TO REPLACE BEARINGS ANYWAYS IM GOING TO TALK TO GREG GOODWIN AND SEE WHAT HE THINKS I THINK MY SIELENCER MAY BE GETTING LOUD TO. I TURNED UP MY OIL PUMP AFTER THE FIRST TRIP .ITS BEEN A GREAT SLED NO PROBLEMS .JUST SEEMS TO BE GETTING NOISY THE LAST FEW TRIPS

tb2
04-05-2003, 05:45 PM
Check where your Y pipe connects to the expansion chamber. I had one wear through. It also sounded louder and raspe.