I have been monitoring the number of deaths by snowmobile in Upper Pen of Michigan, and it seems that about 1 or 2 per weekend is the NORM! Then thanks to online newspaper in Marquette, Michigan, I see that over the last two weekends, the number of accidents where a police or emergency personel were called out, was more than 10 over the last two weekends alone.

I have heard about some people who sled and are fed up with the nut cases who make things bad for everyone on the trails. But seems every year that 12 or 15 people die needlessly across the UP. And only this last week or two has the newspaper indicated that these fatality figures are not even close to those who didn't die but got racked up pretty good, or messed up $8,000 sleds.

My own personal experience where I ride in the lake superior watershed has shown that I don't like the trails because there is always somebody trying to be the head of the pack, and going way faster than they should be, and if I hadn't had my act together it would be a close call because it was all they could do to try and stop from swerving all over the trail, putting the binders on that crotch rocket as they come into sight and low and behold there was SOMEBODY ELSE ON THE TRAIL IN FRONT OF THEM.

I plunked down some hard earned money for a snowcheck 04, that will go off trail. I like that but I feel sorry for those who must ride the trails only and are stuck with watching out for those sled heads.

I am curious to know who out there can indicate what the mishap rate is for their regine and if this is the norm and or I simply sled in an area where all the nuckleheads want to be?

I do know that the Upper turns into a virtual sled world from snow down until melt down, and that the number of casualties is probably smaller than it might appear, but I still wonder if this is normal or not.

What about it?? :doh:

:( Most deaths here in Ontario are NOT on OFSC trails

Indysks might have the info

I know they did a break down of the 10 deaths in Northern Ontario

5 happened at night :(

5 during daylight hrs :(

2 were drunken idiots here in Sudbury on New Years with no helmets and drunk

6 were on lakes

I remember 4 out of the 1st 6 had no helmets

Well I live in Maine and we just reached 16 deaths for the year I believe.Are previous years the most was 12 or 13 so these knucklheads have exceeded that.But I have done some research on this. This year in Maine we had the most registered snowmobiles per capita in the world. Thats not counting are local yocals that do not even register there sleds.so the more people the more deaths it's a fact of statistics, That really sucks for us people just trying to have a good time.I am also in some local clubs,and i have noticed the better we make the trails for riding the faster these yahoos go.so i do not know where we draw a line.Only time will tell.Most of our deaths are out of staters 70%!!! 20% are people not familiar with the trail system and 10% drinkers.But you would not know this buy the way media portrays things they make all accidents related to drinking which is a crock of doo.So far this year 2 of our 16 were alcohol related its mostly inexperience and speed freaks that screw it up.Well i'am done ranting and raving TIME FOR ME TO GET A MOUNTAIN SLED AND NOT EVEN WORRY ABOUT THE TRAILS. :p :devil: (ALTHOUGH I WILL STILL CLEAN THEM UP IN THE SUMMER TIME FOR THE CLUB AND THE OTHER RIDERS CAUSE THATS WHAT KINDA OF GUYS WE ARE HERE IN MAINE!!!!!) SWRules

This is interesting. Seems about the same as here in Michigan. I can say that these factors run the insurance rates through the roof, for the law abiders. It's a shame.

And that is exactly what I am going to do...I ordered a brand new 04 mountain, so I can stay off the trails. Seems a shame since the locals go to great lengths to keep those trails open and groomed, but most of them never use those trails, they use others not posted and unknown to but a few other locals.

Actually, I think that the world should owe the snowmobile industry, since we single handledly get rid of idiots on busy weekends, and therefore they are not around to pass on those genes to the next generation. In a few hundred years, we should have pretty much most of those donut brained rocket heads gone and out of the gene pool, thus the trails should be safe again to venture out on....Gee...I wonder if I can live that long?? Well, if I can stop smelling all that two stroke oil, maybe I have a tiny chance of doing it. :p

FreezerBurnt: Sorry I have lost track of the total count for this year , seems like 36 ? I think but not sure.
I can get the stats from last year but have no acess to this years up to date info.

as long a swe ride, we have to face the fact that there r idiots out there on the trial. its a chance that we all take to have fun for a few hrs. here in NB its ussually high speed, drinking or the guy isnt on a provincial trial. these seem to be most of the causes of deaths in my area.

Now at 34 deaths in the provice of quebec so far...still have around a month of snow ahead...quite sad.

i'd say that everyone of us could just lay off the throttle a shade. it's easy to point fingers, whenever there is a problem like this i look in the mirror and say what can i do to be better or to help out.

This is always a hot topic with snowmobilers. Why so many deaths. There seems to be a lot of issues that contribute to this. Obviously the number 1 issue has always been speed. But I don't think that says it all. To me it is the reckless abandonment that seems to be so popular out on the trails and lakes. Not only do some people speed but they cut corners, pass on blind corners and think they're the best sno-x racer in the world. While I am guilty of speeding and performing my best T-Train or Blair immitation I keep that off the trail. The biggest issue we face is, imo, the manufacturers and how they market the sleds. This was braught up earlier in the season but it does play on us every day. Why would I buy a standard REV when I can buy a REV X. If I do I'll be able to jump that much better, go that much faster, rail around corners that much quicker etc. Marketing influences us all in some way, shape or form. Trust me it happens to all of us on a daily basis. To compound this I see people who have never ridin a sled before go out and purchase the biggest sled out on the market. Again marketing has influenced them and some dealers care more about the sale than actually selling a machine that's properly suited for the rider. Now you have an inexperianced rider on a machine making 130 or more hp thinking he too can ride like a pro because he just baught a machine like the pro's use. Just my $.02

7374

We all hate to see the manufacturers tagged for promoting a deluxe product. I remember when three wheeled ATC's were very popular and selling like crazy. Then a whole pile of accidents happened then manufacturers got sued and they stopped selling them. I actually thought that they would quite altogether. But they begain selling to the high end user with big machines away from the casual user and now the market is full of $7,000 units with 4 wheel drive and winches, and dual transmissions.

Point is that they were forced to make changes in who bought the units and have sort of created the new market away from roger ram-jet who only wants to kill himself or someone else.

I like the freedoms that come with buying what I want with as much horse power as I want or as long a track and paddles as I like. I would hate to think that this all gets dictated to me by the manufacturers who are worried about law suites and who will only sell a thunder cat to those who can afford a $15,000 sled.

This is no joke as this could actually be the trail the industry takes. Get a few congressmen to get their backs up and wham....off they go to the races....and sledders will pay.

You are right on target tho since this is how they sell cars too...zooming down a wide open country road roaring along with not a car in sight when actually they know that the gas guzzler will be sitting in heavy traffic most of the time and the only speedin that can be done is from light to the next corner where the traffic is backed up.

It is hard for me to understand why so many feel that they need to rip along at 70 mph on a twisty trail where two way traffic is bound to be. Going around a corner at high speed where the sled will barely hold the trail and then meeting traffic on the curve.

Maybe there should be only one way traffic on the trails. And or maybe there should be scenic trails and higher speed trails with signs that say go like hello on this stretch.

There has got to be a sane answer to this problem. Stuff like this is something that everyone might want to put up with, but there are those who don't like the industry at all and will use this risk factor to put the skids to the whole thing. AS the previous posts indicate there are a ton of deaths happening over a realitively short sledding season and sooner or later somebody is going to pick up on this and flag it around in the face of somebody who can make a big stink and there goes the show.

Think of the horse power only 10 years ago...and now. It will be realitively easy for a senate committee to bring this all up and enact a law that will put the sled industry in a binder. An industry that is not all that lucrative to begin with and that will be all the industry needs to hear to move over to making only 80 hp units or ATV's and wave runners.

Here in Ontario, the majority of deaths occur while people are riding off trail i.e."drunk at night,buddy on the back,no helmets and flying down a back road".

But i did find that the number of idiots riding recklessly on the trails increased again this year :angry: Hopefully these peoplewith complete lack of respect for others around the will only crash into a tree, and not some poor person riding like a normal person should.

How many of these deaths are attributed to excess speed. I know it's not the machines fault but with the power these machines are developing now-a-days and all these wan-a-be racers out there , you may start to see heavy restrictions placed on where you can operate your machine. In Newfoundland a few idiots tore up the bogs so bad that you cannot even cross them anymore. All it takes is for some activist group to get the wind up their a-- , then see when and where you can ride and possible Hp restrictions/age like they doo with boat. Can you imagin not being able to ride a machine over 20Hp until you reach age 21? Sounds extream but if these accidents are not reduced the government can and will force the issue. We are at a stage now where we can police ourselves but with the increasing accident rates it looks like someone else will. ???

Death toll in Michigan for 2002 / 2003 riding season is 36 (as of 03/19/03). 36 too many in my eyes.

I think one thing that the manufactors should try to help bring down the rate is equip all stock sleds with a 1inch paddle if not 1.25 and dump the .88 track. The control in both braking and turning improves huge with a track upgrade.

Also the type of tracks that Bombi uses on some of there stock sleds seem to love to hang out sideways when you go on the breaks.

I think that would help a little.

I also think that more people should take better care in how there sled handles. There are so many people on the trails that are darting back and forth and they are not safe. If your car drove like that nobody would drive it and any police would pull it off the road. When I dont like the way my sled is handling due to a diffrent type of snow condition I stop and work on it as soon as possible. If you have a good logic of how the suspention works its not hard. Bombardier should give you better instructions in the manual and video to help guys that dont have it figured out.

And lastly. I know that there will be a lot of guys that dont agree with this, But brightly colored sleds like YELLOW, RED, GREEN show up far in advance Vs a all black or grey sled. The yamahas with that blue and black and white remain almost invisible till you see the light on some of the forsested trails.

I think the two safest are skidoo yellow and Arctic cat Green especially when they put all that bright orange on like skidplates and vents.

sorry to say mich death toll hit 39, with hits to a lot of fixed objects (trees)
Here you can buy a boat or snowmobile with the only thing needed is the funds to purchase it. I am not a boater and would have a hard time till you learned the rules of the way. The same would apply here as folks join this great sport but have no ideas of the rules of the road.
I am not looking for more goverment insight but, what to do.
Should a snowmobiler or a boater need a certificate of a saftey class for
either sport?
Would that be effective at all?
It seems like common sense only goes so far with some.

Hey Andy.

I think i met you up by midland. You lost control and I had to steer off into the trees to avoid you. :D :D

No. Your absolutly right. Speed is nothing. Hitting a tree at 40km is just as deadly as 100km and not everyone that gets killed was speeding. THis points the finger at control. And like Andy said there are way to many not in control.

Going back to my point about set up and handling. This is a real problem area. With snow conditions changing, Rider weight and other factors you cant just buy a machine and drive it the way it came from the factory safely. Yet im willing to bet 60% of the people do.

And its not there fault, If you dont understand suspentions, Its like somthing written in a diffrent language.

36 deaths??? My God, I thought 16 was bad. That is aweful.

How many snowmobilers will die this year as a result of snowmobiling in North America. Can anyone find an estimate?

I believe roughly 130 ;)

300,000sleds in Ontario

100,000sleds registered in Maine

etc......

But remember 12 pregnant women die EACH day when involved in car accidents :(

12x365=4380 a year

Wisconsin DNR Statistics for Fatal Snowmobile Accidents 2002-2003. Quite sobering considering the low snow they had this year. Only about 2 really busy weekends of riding.




Wisc DNR Fatal accident summary (http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/es/enforcement/safety/snowstats.htm)

Andy, not as many as you would think.
Bac levels and accident details are listed in the report, some are listed as unknown bac? Also listed at the bottom are the stats for 2001-2002.

Most of them went through the ice seems like people just not knowing there surroundings.And a .225 or something for a bac i don't think i would believe that unless thats canadien # a .225 in the states you barely find your sled leaving the bar.Plus i don't believe cops numbers anyway there the same ones that say you were doing 10 over the speed limit but when you ask to check the radar they already deleted it!!! MY A$$!!!!!!!!!!! I trust the media about as far as i could throw them!! :cussing: :cussing:

I went home last night and thought long and hard about this subject. I tried to think of ways we, not as individuals, but as a whole group can change these ugly stats. Unfortunately I could not think of anything that will solve this without severly limiting our ability to enjoy this sport we love so much. However I do think education done properly can help. Governments need to help with the funding but let pro snowmobile organizations be in charge of the utilization of this funding. We all have to do our part to help educate the riders we ride with. While it is impossible to stop all deaths maybe we can keep one or two sledders from getting killed. Peer pressure can make people change. I hate to talk like this because I never like to see anyone get killed . Even more so when it involves someone in our sport but the morons that get plastered at the bar and then go out and hit a tree and get killed I am to some extend happy that they are no longer a threat to me on the trails. Yes I feel sad for the family I really do not feel any sympathy for the sledder. Remember it was there choice to do what they did. Unfortunately they also occasionally take one of us innocent sledders with them. Machzzzz1 i read what you wrote about handling and set up on a sled and i have to agree. What the manufacturer recommends is sometimes very inadequate or dangerous. Maybe we should be better eduacating sledders on sled set up and what changes to make to get your sled handing safer. I also feel that there are some dealers out there that do not have a clue about this as well. If a dealer can not properly set up a sled how is an inexperianced rider going to be able to do this? Just my $.02

7374

This is an interesting concept, about sled setup. Thinking back when I bought my 02 4 strokers...both of them from two different dealers, and come to think of it, a zl600 from one of these dealers, and they put the sled outside the dealership and never said a word about adjustments. It was more or less look the sled over and see if it meets your approval, and load her up into the trailer and see ya later.

Reading the manual mentions the adjustments, but really spends little time on them, and nothing about adjusting to the conditions of the trail.

Maybe somebody should tell the manufacturers about this lack of explanation.

I also keep an eye on the stats in Michigan, primarily in the Upper where I prefer to ride, and sure enough there is a ton of drownings, which easily provides 25% of the deaths in Michigan each year.

I, likewise, do not feel sorry for the dumbells who do this, since anyone who thinks they are immortal, should depart this world as quickly as they can provide a means of doing it. But the unfortunate thing is that they leave behind family and friends, who will be left scared for life. Or more importantly, they could take innocent others...passengers, and other snogoers with them. Now that ....I do object to.

Here's another thing to think about:

I know that this sno-machine business is big big big economic business for those small towns and villages through the snowbelt of the Upper part of Michigan and they cater towards snogoers. But they also will sell beers or hard stuff to those guys and ladies all the while knowing that they GOT THERE BY SLED, and will of course....leave by sled, and in not in the condition necessary to get home safely. All too often those party goers drink til midnight and then zooooom home and sleep it off.

Some obviously, don't make it home outside a body bag.

Come on....all those sleds outside the bar/grills, are not all drinking coca colas in there. We all know that and tho, I too never touch...and I mean never, any alcohol til I get back to the lodge, or motel, or cabin I am at, others will use this as an excuse to get not just soused, but get a good glow on. For me it is no problem to wait, but for others we all know them, they think there is nothing wrong with a few beers and then off they go, on that thundercat to make ....ONE last run around the block. And usually they make it...sometimes they get lucky....sometimes....well you get the point.

There needs to be responsibility of those who this guy is partying down with...for sure. Drum hiim or her out of the group...make no mistake he is costing everyone by doing what he is doing. He might be the life of the party, but if he doesn't make it back home to his family and work, everyone at the bar, who knows him/her and just lets him go, is partially responsible.

But the pubs, bars, grills and the like, are also responsible for letting that guy do what he is doing. Just as they are if they drive to the party place with a car or truck. They need to be held accountable. Still I have never seen a pub tell somebody they won't serve them up another brew, cause they got there by sled...which is quite conspicuously sitting right outside the door, and the guy is garbed in his ski-doo outfit.

It is something that can and should be dealt with by the people who go there. Believe me, if the group holds the bar accountable, if by no other means but to choose to go down the street where, "charlie bartender" does care, then the idiot can check the cash register and see that this idea of NOT policing a bit has an economic cost, if not a moral responsibility.

If the next time you walk into a place and see that someone there...maybe not even your own group, has obviously, over done it....take some initiative....really....think of the sport. Walk over to the bar tender and say...."Yah Know that guy got here on a sled...right?? Wonder how he will get back home?"

You just might just be saving the guys life, and saving the sport you all like so well.

Likewise the guy who doesn't imbibe, but likes to go like hello....you know him, we all see him on the trail, and he needs to be confronted. We all hold that responsibility....really. Not the knock your block off kind, but acknowledging that he isn't doin it right. I believe most will conform, if they think that their buddies care. It is that stuff that will eventually make a difference. And if the bloak won't listen, forget about him. Don't invite him next go around. He will get the message. No fun to ride alone...right?

And next time you go to buy the latest and greatest, you won't have to fill out a test that is 10 pages long, go to approval classes for 4 weeks, sign off on release forms acknowledging that you will stay to the "under 45 mph" trails, and are restricted to the 50 horsepower and under classification. Imagine this, as you get some gutts to walk over to they guy and tell him that he is not welcome to ride with your group again, because he is costing the whole industry in total breakdown of the things that everyone now freely enjoys.

Now you CAN do something about it. Police ourselves, or let some idiot who doesn't care about this in a pinstriped suit drafting laws to wreck it for everyone. It is OUR choice. We can't stop it all, of course, but we can make a difference. We only need to recognize the EFFECT each of us can have on the good of the industry. But until we stop griping and do something....I am staying off trail, on my powder machine. :p

Okay...now I am off the soap box...

Originally posted by smokelessone@Mar 19 2003, 03:49 PM

Maybe there should be only one way traffic on the trails. And or maybe there should be scenic trails and higher speed trails with signs that say go like hello on this stretch.


Some of the main trails in the U.P. have 2 lanes groomed. IMO I like to ride on these trails more for the simple fact that I feel safer and only need to worry about someone in front or back. It may cost more money but I think all trails should be groomed this way!

Ok I got the stats for Ontario for this year..so far ..there has been 28 killed in ontario ( expect atleast one more..i"ll save the details ) . 7 of the deaths were on ofsc trails . Here is the details of all the crashes , the numbers and words at the end like .....28 M No Yes refer to age, sex, trail,and stop area in that order.

Date Time Location Cause Age Sex Trail STOP Area

3/17/2003 0000 Ottawa Victim was being towed on his snowmobile when he fell off sled and was hit by sled following. 20 M No No

3/14/2003 1400 Longlac Lost control of snowmobile, thrown and hit by sled following. 39 M Unknown Unknown

3/12/2003 7:00 Fenelon Falls Two sleds jumping drifts (to the side of the trail). Victim was on the front sled, another sled following. Victim fell off of machine when he hit a jump, second snowmobile followed, hit victim and drove over him. 15 M No Unknown

3/7/2003 00:00 Matheson Rider hit a tree. 40 M No No

3/4/2003 10:21 Iroquois Falls Drove into back of stopped snowmobile. 35 M Yes No

3/4/2003 12:00 Englehart Driver took sharp turn, lost control, struck tree. Machine spun over, throwing driver from sled. 54 M Yes Unknown

2/22/2003 0115 hours Sharbot Lake Driver, with passenger, proceeded down Big Gull Lake in dense fog. Snowmobile struck embankment and both driver and passenger became airborne, striking trees. Driver pronounced dead at scene, passenger sustained injuries. 30 M No No

2/22/2003 5:40 Kapuskasing Driver failed to stop coming off trail onto Fred Flatt Road, Hit by pick-up truck. 43 M Yes No

2/21/2003 23:45 Isabella Lake, West Parry Sound Snow machine with two persons ran into open water near the mouth of the Seguin River. Both passenger and driver ended up in the water. Passenger was able to get out but the driver did not. 52 M No Yes

2/20/2003 11:00 a.m. Davidson's Camp Road, Atikokan, Ontario Snow vehicle failed to negotiate curve, left roadway, travelled down embankment and collided with tree. 27 M No No

2/11/2003 1900 Southeastern Ottawa Group of three snowmobiles, second sled may possibly have hit back of first sled, flipping second snowmobile. Rider succumbing to his injuries. 16 M No Unknown

2/9/2003 10:30 McLaren's Bay Road (North Bay) Two snowmobilers met at the crest of a hill causing a head on collision. One rider succumbed to his injuries while and the other was air-lifted to hospital. 36 M No Yes

1/31/2003 2210 Northumberland Forest Cobourg Failed to negotiate curve, operator ejected, striking tree. 45 M Yes No

1/26/2003 0000 Greens Lake (Sudbury area) Ran open water on Onwatin Lake at a high rate of speed, could not slow down enough when came back on ice and crashed into trees along shore. 28 M No Yes

1/25/2003 2330 Grey Township (Listowel) Missed curve and struck a tree. 21 M Yes No

1/10/2003 0027 Kahshe River, Gravenhurst Broke through ice at mouth of river. 0 M No Unknown

1/7/2003 1500 Blackstone Lake, Archipelago Twp. (Parry Sound) Sled went through ice. 0 M No Yes

1/7/2003 2200 Moore's Point, Bass Lake Occurred at shoreline of Moore's Point, Bass Lake - collided with steep rock bank. 0 M No Unknown

1/5/2003 0000 Fairbanks Lake (Sudbury area) Group of three snowmobiles travelling together from Vermillion Lake to Fairbanks Lake, all hit open water, third snowmobile went into water - passenger rescued, rider sank into Lake (body recovered later). 0 M No Yes

1/3/2003 0000 Nepewassi Lake, Hendrie Twp. Passenger succumbed to his injuries from snowmobile accident on January 1st, 2003, which also claimed the life of the driver. 0 M No Yes

1/3/2003 1050 O'Brien Twp. (Kapuskasing) Crossed road from trail to logging road, failed to stop at Stop sign, hit by logging truck. 0 M Yes Unknown

1/1/2003 0020 Nepewassi Lake, Hendrie Twp. High rate of speed, unable to turn sled, struck rock. (Passenger on sled in hospital). 0 M No Yes

12/31/2002 2030 Onaping Lake, Sudbury Riding on Lake Onaping, lost control and collided with boulders. 32 M No Yes

12/29/2002 1940 Gravenhurst Drove off trail at high speed, hit tree. 41 F Yes Yes

12/25/2002 2200 Sioux Lookout Pedestrian walking along frozen path on lake, struck by sled. 0 M No No

12/18/2002 1920 Haliburton Riding in Haliburton Forest - on curve, left trail, striking rock face. 0 M No Unknown

12/15/2002 0200 Severn Township Left roadway. Speed to fas to conditions. 0 M No Unknown

12/9/2002 2010 Municipality of West Perth Struck snow-drift, lost control of sled and rolled. 23 M No Unknown

Com'on guys we cant save the world. Every living thing on this earth has to die someday.
Be in the form of cancer, viruses, motorized vehicle accidents [even snowmobiles] and any one of a million other things you can think of.
Death to any one of these can mean many things, to me it means a form of population control.
I will and you will be a satistic to one of these someday so dont take it so hard on one subject, there's nothing you can do about it because nobody gives a damn........

Theres no doubt we'll all pass on one day and no we can't save everyone nor is it our responsibility but by taking even just a moment to try and look out for anothers well being just maybe we can save one family the heartache of a police officer arriving at their door with news of their loved one killed in a sledding accident.
IMHO even one sledding death is too many.
"Ride Sober......Ride Safe"
Peace
Rick.

Indy,
Thanks for the stats, too bad its no longer available from the OPP site.

Rick.

Unfortunitly, no lines on a road, most drive like idiots and do not stay on there side. Pass some laws to put the lines down, and the death toll will drop. i.e Speed limits, licensing, safety courses, more Police on sleds, etc.
I do not know the exact death toll for New Hampshire, but it is under 10 (correct me if I am wrong) NH has a speed limit, and safety course are strongly encouraged through the majority of clubs, AND the Police on sleds have radar guns....yes, radar guns. A lot of the yahoos who do not like this go to Maine.....and crash their sleds with their sentance starting as "Ahhh dude, you should have seen......Now I need another new sled after the doctor installs a new brain in my head....
Maine does have the BEST trails in New England ..... :inlove: