This country is going to be taken over without a shot fired.I need to vent here people.There is now no smoking in any bars here in all of New York.No if ands or butts[pardon the pun].I am a non smoker myself but my wife likes to smoke when we go out to a tavern.I think the bar owner should have a choice to allow smoking or not too.Put up a sign over the front entrance saying that this is a smoking establishment....Enter at your own risk...and be done with it.How many places will close because of this new law....A LOT OF THEM!!!!I realize it will be better for employes....but if you work at a bar second hand smoke goes with the job.If you do not like go get another job.What is this country coming to?Lets see... I can go fight for my country...AND GET KILLED AT 18....But I have to wait until I am 21 to have a beer?God help us......Live free or die....I know I will hear from eneryone on this one. :cussing:Next they will say you can't have a alcoholic drink at a bar....where will it end?

same thing here Roy. we can vote on who runs the country at 18, fight for our country, but people have to be 19 to be able to buy smokes (but you can smoke at 16) does that make sense?
new glasgow passed the NO SMOKING law in january as well as the provicial government. no smoking in public places, but new glasgow is holding the anual jubille (music festival) its out side and it is a public place as there will be 10000 people there this weekend but people WILL BE ALLOWED TO SMOKE, why cause the town is holding it to make some money and if people werent allowed to smoke they wouldnt go. stuff like this PIS*ES me off :cussing: different rules for differnt people . i smoke and i dont care where i am (other than a restraunt or some ones house that doesnt allow smoking) i will smoke.

Right on cooley......It is now time for me to leave work and go to Happy hour.TGIF. ???

This is not a new concept, it has been taking place in the US for many years (California for one).

I realize that.Thanks for your input.

Originally posted by Roy@Aug 1 2003, 08:40 PM
I realize that.Thanks for your input.
...

And all this will cause our country to be taken over how?

right now in canada we have a gun regristry that the government put in place, and now they know who has guns and who doesnt (except for the ones that didnt regisiter) they say having this registry will drop the criminal rate, how i have no idea. i have a 30.06 semi auto and if some one gets shot in toronto with one what are they going to do , go to every house that has a 30.06 gun ??? ??? i think not. its not the gun we have that kill its the real criminals out there that buy a gun on the street for $20 that kills............ so in a few years i think we will have no guns cause the government will come and take them. first it is smoke then guns what is NEXT?

Try pleading your case to someone dying from cancer caused by second hand smoke, i think you'd have a hard time looking them in the eye. I'm not trying to be a smart a$$ but you have to admit that smokeing kills, plain and simple. You certainly have the right to kill yourself but you dont have the right to endanger the lives of others that choose not to smoke. Thats my opinoin.

Originally posted by paidncash@Aug 1 2003, 05:40 PM
You certainly have the right to kill yourself but you dont have the right to endanger the lives of others that choose not to smoke. Thats my opinoin.
then why not ban it altogether? why not beacuase how many BILLIONS of $$$$$$$$ do they get a year from smokers?thats why they wont ban it

You are correct about the Billions of dollars that the tobaco industry makes from smokers, and it's sad to say thats why they prolly never will ban smokeing all together. It's all about the almighty DOLLAR. :cussing:

I think the law is total BS! :cussing: What they need to do is have smoking and non smoking establishments. Like you said, the people that work there are there by choice. Those bars are definitly going to take a big hit. Way to stimulate the economy. :angry:

The government(s) could care less about wether or not you die from smoking. They are in a precarious position of their own making, they must appear to be anti smoking to justify collecting all of the tax revenue smoking generates. When a proposition comes up like the one that started this thread they have to cave in to this type of crap to look good, you know to protect everyone in that invisible plastic bubble called utopia.

I also agree (and I do not smoke, and I have had relatives and friends die from smoking and possibly lots of other stuff like asbestos etc...) that owners of an establishment should decide what will happen in regards to this matter, pretty soon you wont be able to smoke in a Cigar cafe. If you dont like smoking, dont go to those places, and if it affects business adversly business owners will change their policy, but the truth is not many people care as much as they say they do because I see lots of restaraunts where smoking is allowed packed with non-smokers. It is a few people making noise about it that gets this crap going, and the other side seems to remain quiet. Remember the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

PH said it Exactly right smoking and non smoking its that simple, as for the workers tough! go to a non smoking bar to work if thats what u really want, i think this is crap, what makes the non smokers any more than smokers to get everything changed to a smoke free environment, a lousy cigarette will soon be looked at as crack is. And i know people will say "but smoking is dumb and it will kill you too" but hey KFC will kill you too, so what the heck is the diff?? both self inflicted, neither of them real smart to indulge in too heavily but it sure is darn good. MAN I need a smoke.............and a box of KFC might be good now too. :sarcasm:

Originally posted by jwheeler@Aug 1 2003, 10:01 PM
hey KFC will kill you too
:cussing: Oh oh I am deaded LOL

I had KFC 3 times in 4 days last weekend :doh: :p

Well here in Sudbury they banned smoking too even in the workplace

It is nice to eat in the lunch room without the stench :)

But like some of you say they should have smoking and non smoking establishments

But then again,why can't we have nude bars too :p Oops forgot we have acouple of them here :0:

smoking cigarettes has its place for sure not around non smokers if can be, but legalizing marijuana here and looking down at a cigarette smoker has me baffled.

if a person is to have a cigarette who is he killing ? only himself.

if a person is hooked on marijuana then who is he killing ? when he drives ? when his family misses out on missed opportunity because of money spent on drugs ?

i've been to cigar bars an cigar parties where the biggest cigarette complainers are smoking a stinky old cigar to the tune of $30.00 a cigar. go figure.

i think the minorities are taking over the world here, want things their own way and habits that are much worse then a cigarette get special treatment.

Deninately a touchy subject here. I have smoked for approx 20 years at least a pack a day sometimes more. I am 12 days into my fourth attempt to quit this filthy habit. This time I have it beat. I have tried all the methods before including the patch Gum and Zyban. None of them worked for me very long and I was back to smoking in no time. I was lucky enough to come by a product that is not available in canada or at any stores here. I bought it in a Showcase store(as seen on TV) in Toronto, LOL. IT is a product called Smoke away. This product is all natural and made it so damn easy to quit. It helps to relax,detoxifies your system and also helps the neural transmitters function on there own again. I know people that have smoked non filtered cigarettes for over 50 years that have used this method to quit.

Thats good perm keep it up The hacking up a lung should start in the next week or so this will last for a while but when over and done you have it beat.I smoked for 16 years quit for 13 and then started again for two years then quit again two and a half years ago I will never smoke again.But I still get the urge from time to time.

I do not mean to start trouble here.I just hate to see a bar owner who has been in business for 30+ years talk about how he can not pay the bills anymore and close up.He has lost that much business.All I am saying is there should be non-smoking bars....and smoking bars....You should have a choice. ???

Well, I wasn't sure if I was going to "butt in" :D here, but, (gulp) here goes.

People who work in hazzardous environments such as firefighters, miners, etc. have to be provided with and use the proper safety equipment in order to do their job and not be charged under the ministry of health and safety. If the worker is put in a hazzardous environment without the proper protections in place, the employer can be charged. As an example if I climb in a machine at work without locking it out both myself and my employer can be charged.

People who work in hazzardous situations are usually pretty well compensated. Servers are usually paid minimum wage and rely on their tips to have a living wage. There is no huge line-up of jobs waiting for these people to quit their serving jobs to work elsewhere; someone shouldn't have to quit their job in order to work in a safe environment and earn a living.

It's no secret that second hand smoke will negatively affect your health. If I choose to visit with a friend in the smoking room at work then it is my choice to be there. If I go there because I have to in the course of my job, it is no longer a choice but a requirement. Labour law comes into effect.

If it were only some of the bars that were being made "no smoking", I could see it severely affecting their business. Because it's happening to all of them, people still want to go out and will do so.

"Back in the day" it was common to go out to the bars and get totalled, then drive home. Since then attitudes have changed and people are much more conservative about what and how much they drink when they go out; this didn't shut down the bars, and I don't believe the smoking issue will either.

And oh yeah, congratulations Perm! Your kids and LadyK will thank you, I'm sure! :)

Touche! I still think the law stinks, but you made some very good points Jacqui.
Congrats Perm! :thumbsup: When my time comes I will have to look into that smoke away stuff.

There are some other points to consider, now I am not going to say or imply smoking is not bad for your health but.......

In Japan something like 95% of all men smoke, and their cancer/heart disease rates are no higher than people here in North America that do not smoke? So my question is are the butts causing all of these problems or is a combination of things? Are their cigarettes missing something ours have?

There is also some scuttlebut that the WHO (world health organization) did a big long study on the effects of second hand smoke, and they found there is only marginal increases in these diseases with prolonged exposure. Of course when the study did not come out the way they expected it to, they did not make any noise about it.

The way they make it sound, smoking is going to kill all of us, then why are people living longer and longer, my point is that I dont think it is worth losing too much sleep over, unless you actually smoke.

same thing here in New Brunswick Canada. every public place inside is now non smoking. i am a non smoker so i think this is great. I guess it comes down to, we have certian places where we go to use the washroom. And now we have only certian areas where we can smoke. In the long run it would be better to breath in those disgusting smells from a bathroom than the smoke from a smoker sitting just a few seats down from u.

All this law does is prove that hypocracy has NO boundaries. In a since all they are saying is that liver cancer (from excessive alcohol consumption) is more acceptable than lung cancer. I don't hold anything against those that want to smoke or drink, even though I don't do either, but the decision is always up to the you the consumer. It always peeves me off when the government has to step in and say "NO!", to something that has been going on forever. Yes, the law is stupid. It's not like people are going into a bar not knowing what to expect.

Snow-Drift

what i liked and some of you will remember from last summer. well last year when brantford put in a non smoking bylaw the peelers at a downtown bar had nowhere to smoke but out front of the bar. non smoking bylaw coupled with the law of women being able to go topless what do you think the site was ? yup you're right a lot of rearenders. LOL

now not to poke at the poor pig barbeque at the little church in the little burg south of me. has anyone ever taken a look at the carcinogenics that the smoke from the fire will produce ?

I like to go to the bars, but I'm a non-smoker, and it really does irritate the hell out of me. Some times it gets so bad that I just have to leave. I just wish that the bars would ventilate it better, and I wouldn't care about the smoke.

Originally posted by slarson@Aug 3 2003, 10:00 PM
In Japan something like 95% of all men smoke, and their cancer/heart disease rates are no higher than people here in North America that do not smoke? So my question is are the butts causing all of these problems or is a combination of things? Are their cigarettes missing something ours have?



I did a quick check (I'm really bored tonight) and aproximately 59% of Japanese men smoke, versus 28% of U.S. men.

They have a lung cancer rate of 58 per 100,000, while the U.S. has a rate of 72 per 100,000.

Very interesting. It's probably a combination of factors, such as our less healthy diet and worse pollution in our big cities.


http://www.truehealth.org/acompar1.html
http://www.smoke-free.ca/factsheets/pdf/worldprev1.PDF