So I have a rebuild engine and considering moving to synthetic oils for injection.
How important is it to stay with one brand of oil? What if you run out and have to revert to regular?

Whats the deal with octane boost? Does it work?
Last year while riding around Temagami, Ontario, I found it hard to get Hi Test gas and I am thinking low octane was the cause of my engine problems.

For me, I run Amsoil and hi test gas if I can.

I carry enough oil with me to cover most of my trips, and usually over the course of my trip I find some on the trail to stock up a little.

As for fuel, it can be a problem to find good fresh high octane fuel. If I'm concerned, I always carry some octane booster with me, but I will also take it a little easier on the sled, when I'm not convinced the fuel is good. Just no hard long runs, and as soon as I find some high octane fuel I top up.

with the amount of people who never run hi test in their sleds, I don't worry too much about one tank of regular. But like I said, I take it a little easier on the engine.

I'm not convinced that octane boosters are all that great, but for the couple times a year I use it, its not that expensive, and can't hurt.

So I can carry extra oil, but does mixing the oils cause problems?

mixing any good quality oils will not be a problem.

a synthetic to a good quality dino oil won't be an issue. If you turned down your oil pump when you went to synthetic though, you might want to make up the difference by mixing some into the fuel.

FishHog

I had no idea the gas/oil ratio would be changed with the move to synthetic oil. The stuff is so expensive, its a hard choice to make, what are the advantages to synthetic??

i ran out of amsiol last spring and ran the rest of season with regular oil. worked great just not as clean.
as far as gas, i used to run the best i could get, but last year i ran regular for most of the year and it work great. but it may depend on the sled.

my sled clearly states the need for 91 % octane and I know that newer sleds are being made with timing retardation switches to limit the damage caused by pre detonation from using low octane, so I can't understand how you get by on regular gas?

The big problem with mixing oils is if you mix a castor based oil with a synthetic. It will coagulate. Castor oils are not used for sleds because of the flow rate at low temps. I read an article a few years back about guys dooing a test using as many kinds of oils as they could. they reported no major problems. Anyone else read that?

What doo you mean by castor oil?
Isn't castor oil and cod liver oil something you take for good health?

Is Castrol 2cycle oil a castor oil??

Some mineral oils are castor based?

Castor oil is from castor beans which are DEADLY if eaten. Commercially prepared castor oil has none of the toxins present.

Klotz uses castor oil in this product. I will quote to save time.

Code: SuperTechniPlate
Price: See Options for Pricing
Quantity in Basket: none


Pure synthetic bases are blended with 20% BėNOL Racing Castor Oil. Provides engines the Clean Burn™ quality of Klotz synthetic lubricants along with the exceptional film strength of castor oil. Degummed castor oil reduces ring groove deposits and protects engines in high RPM and extreme heat applications.

Motul says their Ester based oils will not seperate from gasoline like castor based oils.

I wonder about castrol, the name is similar. Have to doo a check on that one.

Originally posted by permafrost@Oct 21 2003, 12:52 PM
The big problem with mixing oils is if you mix a castor based oil with a synthetic. It will coagulate. Castor oils are not used for sleds because of the flow rate at low temps. I read an article a few years back about guys dooing a test using as many kinds of oils as they could. they reported no major problems. Anyone else read that?
I never saw the article, but Perm is right. You can safely mix synthetic and petroleum based oils with no problem. That's even what some of the oil co's are doing now to bring the cost down and still offer something better than straight petro oil. There is unfortunately a lot of misinformation out there concerning synthetics.

As for Castrol, it's a petroleum base, don't worry.

And you mention the high cost of synthetics - I don't think that's really true. Become a preferred customer with Amsoil. I can get a gallon of Amsoil for slightly less than the OEM petro oils.

Here is an article but it still doent discuss the low temp conditions affect on castor based oils.

CLICK ME (http://www.kartweb.com/TechArt/Fuel/castor102.htm)

Permafrost,

The Klotz techniplate oil is not a castor oil based oil. The less used Klotz SUPERTECHNIPLATE is and it is not for injector use- pre-mix only. The less commonly used Klotz Benol racing oil is also. Benol is also for use with premix only. The techniplate is a full synthetic and can be safely mixed with other oils and is for premix or injector. So chances are you will not crossmix incompatable oils.

Interestingly, castor oil is the only oil known for its ability to be attracted by heat and therefore attracts itself to the hottest parts of the engine for superior high rpm race appliations.

Tony

My engines are all run stock, to factory specs. I run regular fuel only, with no trouble for many years, even in the XCR 800. Amsoil is about as cheap as anything else out there(if you shop carefully), and I don't have to worry about the quality of it, or mixing something else with it when/if necessary.

Re: Castor oil
It's probably the best oil to leave in your engine for extended period storage. It is very good at coating the bearings to prevent rust problems. When the synthetics were first becoming popular, there were a LOT of problems regarding this. There are still a few, but not like back then.

I can just imagine trying to run castor based oil in one of my VES valve engines today. Talk about cleaning valves frequently...that stuff is dirty.

Alscool, your original post said that you just done a rebuild. IMO synthetics are fine, but from what I've heard and read (most recently in the last issue of Snowtech), break your new engine in, and run it for a while on petroleum based oil, not synthetic.

TonyB I wasnt slagging the Klotz just using that product they make as an example. You confirmed what i was saying. Castor based oils are not used in sleds. So your chance of having a bad mix is next to NIL Alscool.

For break in run a full tank of REG Doo oil or something similar, non-synthetic. Also add some to your gas tank. no more than .5 litre.
Once you run your oil resovoir down to about 25%. Top it up with a quality synthetic snowmobile oil.

I have always ran high grade gas,,,,,dont really have a good reason, but I too also carry a bottle of octane boost,,,,,just in case

I have seen Amsoil available in Cochrane, Timmins & Hearst. But IMO in a pinch any 2-stroke oil is OK and definitely better than no oil.

I used to Hate it when I got into Michigan and Premium fuel was a Luxury. Now that I bought a S.D.I. Engine, I won't have to worry. It will detect any pre detonation, knock, whatever and adjust accordingly! :p

Originally posted by permafrost@Oct 22 2003, 11:25 AM
Castor based oils are not used in sleds. So your chance of having a bad mix is next to NIL Alscool.

For break in run a full tank of REG Doo oil or something similar, non-synthetic. Also add some to your gas tank. no more than .5 litre.
Once you run your oil resovoir down to about 25%. Top it up with a quality synthetic snowmobile oil.
Thank you permafrost :D

a definitive answer to my question.

ALSCOOL

Well that might have been your problem when you blew

the 95 Mach 1 like you said is rated 91octane minimum,so most likely when you ran lower octane you cause it to detonate

Most sleds are rated for 87octane so there is no point in running hightest unless it is rated for hightest

The 95-96 Mach 1 was one of a few that was rated 91octane,all other Doos in 95 were rated 87octane

BTW I would not worry about mixing oil been there done that

Freezerburnt,

I know you knew what you were posting is correct, but I just wanted to clarify because the word supertechniplate is too similar to techniplate and casual readers might of not picked up on the different words used and may of made some guys start worrying over a problem that they did not have. Just trying to clarify.......no harm... no foul....


Tony

Originally posted by jgf_zr@Oct 23 2003, 09:10 AM
I have seen Amsoil available in Cochrane, Timmins & Hearst. But IMO in a pinch any 2-stroke oil is OK and definitely better than no oil.
Last winter the following places wayyyy up north had Amsoil in stock:

the variety store in the Mall @ Hornepayne
George's Garage (the 'doo dealer in Matheson)
the general store in Foleyet (also a gas station)

Another benefit of the synthetics is that with the better lubricating properties you can turn the injector pump down so the oil to gas ratio will be less. I.E. stock setting may be 32:1 and you could change to 40:1 or 50:1 and get the same lubrication as a regular oil. BUT if you ever get out and run out of your synthetic oil you cannot put regular oil in without adjusting the difference by premixing to get the balance back...because the new setting on the oil pump would have the oil to gas ratio too lean ....hope this helps,,,,,,Steve

I wouldn't worry about synthetics on a new rebuild. I have always run Amsoil in everything 2 cycle I own right down to the chain saw. I then only have to buy one oil and Amsoil is readily available most places and relisticly priced. I bought two new Polaris' last year and they come with about 1/3-1/2 of their oil in them. I topped off with Amsoil and away I went. As far as fuels I just try to stay away from the oxegenated fuels and have not had any problems. :D