I was looking thru the latest issue of SnowTech and I came across an add from Arctic Cat. It was that one with the ariel photo of the F7 in a drag race but without the REV and the RX-1. It just had the polaris and in the middle it had written.

Polaris often criticizes what they dont understand.* Innovation, for instance.

Then at the bottom of the add they write the ultimate slam. Its almost like i worked for cats add department.

We can take there criticism, knowing 96% of F7 riders would buy an F7 again, as reported by snowgoer, But from one Manufacturer to another, our opinion is they should stop bashing and start building that new sled we,ve heard rumors about. WOW....

First off, I would like to know what polaris said for them to lash out in a add like that.

But more importantly it solves a even bigger mystery. i've always wondered how the F7 could beat a Rev in a drag race. But now I realized its all photoshop. They simply removed the REV and the RX-1 and even the clever tracks and snowdust. :D

All I can say is that arctic cat better stop throwing the term innovation around so loosely. Skidoo might get involved and teach them a thing or two about a revolution.

Machzzz1, you should of looked a little closer to that magazine. There an insert in red that says " PROMISES, PROMISES, PROMISES" you might chance your tune a little.....

I USED to have a ton of respect for both companies. Seems like Polaris started it with add copy that could have been written by a 9 year old. As if that wasn't bad enough, now AC has gone and hired a 9 year old of their own. SD and Yam way further ahead of the game by not saying a word at this point...

I have not seen this ad, but I do see how the antics of both Polaris and Cat could be considered underhanded. There seems to be enough brand bashing amongst consumers without the companies getting involved too (see other forums). Honestly, I would think that the marketing directors should be able to come up with something better. Why any of the companies decided to resort to this type of advertising this year is beyond me, since all seem to be making quality products and technological advances, just in different realms. Personally, I am interested in trying the REV for the ergonomics, the RX-1 for the power and fuel mileage, the Polaris Switchback for its multi-tasking ability, and the F7 for its power, ergonomics, and rugged good looks (hey, i'm still a cat guy :p )

On the other hand, comparison of one brand to another is not a new advertising tactic... the "brand X is superior to brand Y" is used for all kinds of different products, from paper towels, to dish detergent, to vehicles. Mind you, I am positive that most snowmobilers are more loyal to their brand then most paper towel users are to Bounty (or, insert favourite brand here). With this in mind, are we just being too sensitive?? :confused:

Seems to me that this brand-bashing mentality is so prevalent in our sport that it's made it's way all the way to the marketing executives of multi-million dollar companies. Maybe they think they'll appeal to their respective audiences by mimicking them. It's so ridiculous. You see it every weekend you're out on a ride. Who really cares what kind of machine you ride? I'd rather we all band together rather than squabble over petty differences. Believe me, we have bigger enemies out there. Snowmobilers are not generally liked amongst Joe Public.

Brand bashing is mostly a self-esteem issue. By constantly talking about how much better their choice of machine is they are simply trying to convince themselves that they are smarter, and that they made the wisest decision.
It really very childish.

I didnt think it was a bash,,,,I looked at it as creative advertising,,,,, I was always taught that the ad that is remembered is the good one,,,, seems everyone here will remember this one.
I am not saying that I agree with the brand bashing,,,,,to each their own,,,, I myself will not let an ad in a magazine decide how I am going to spend 8000$ on a sled,,,,I myself will decide that.
As for the "start building that sled that we are all hearing rumors about" be careful,,,,you may get what you asked for.

i dont see the big deal between 2 companies doing a little trash talking. Ford and Chevy do it all the time and nobody says anything.

I don't care what your mount is they ALL break... PERIOD
As with anything else it comes down to personal preference.

The way I look at it the original Polaris ad was a bash. If no one has seen it just go to there web site as I believe they have it running there as well. It was a cheap ( ethically ) way of trying to retain the loyal Polaris followers. However the Cat add to me is not a bash in the same context as the Polaris ad. Polaris bashed the rest of the industry but Cat only aimed at one manufacture and it was a decent response to Polaris. Do I think Cat should have responded. I think some one in industry needed to respond to this ad as we know the sled mags would never for fear of loosing out on advertising dollars. Cat did a decent job of it. And again for the record, since i was in the past accused of this, I am not a Cat loyalist and I don't ride a Cat at the current time. I am a snowmobile enthusiast regardless of the brand.

Some of you guys pay to much attention to advertising, I think. :crazy:

i guess polaris and cat's advertising has worked. It got our attention didnt it. i am sure thats all they wanted to do and it worked great. :)

Ok, i found a magazine with the add.

OH MY GOD. That is the poorest add I have ever seen. Not only do they have a clue what there talking about, But they are brutally brand bashing. The writer for that add wouldn't even last on sw.com.

I think Cat was in the right with there add. Thats a fair comeback.

Its obvious that polaris is just sweating the fact that they have nothing in there barn to impress there customers so they have to lash out at the other brands.

Im still laughing a bit at it. I think someone overthere needs to ride a REV before they bash it. They also need to realize that service recalls are better then companies just letting problems be. To me thats good customer service calling sleds back for every glitch. And the RX1 is a sled in its own class not needing to be compaired to the top snowcross sleds.

The tiff between cat and Pol won't end anytime soon. It has been going on since the early days when one of the founders of Polaris went out and started his own company, building Arctic Cat snowmobiles.

Originally posted by Machzzzz1@Nov 28 2003, 11:37 AM
They also need to realize that service recalls are better then companies just letting problems be. To me thats good customer service calling sleds back for every glitch.
Very true and imo Doo should smarten up and listen to that instead of doing F*&K all about the gauges fogging up and the pitson ring issue. Fix it once and for all.

I think is has alot to do with them fighting in court..LOL just frustrated with each other....

Marketing is a very strange beast.

Look at these bashing adds - they work, don't they. Everybody is looking for the "bashing add"

Then the people who find it funny,destructive, constructive etc tell their friend and then THEY look up the adds. and so on, and so on.

Very smart marketing.

I'm not a cat fan, or polaris, or yamaha, but i do like their sleds, I'm just brand loyal, and I don't bash anything, but I sort of glad cat did this because polaris just talks and talks, thats all I have seen in their adds just putting down other brands, and now some one said something back. ski-doo brings out the rev, yamaha brings out the rx-1, and arctic brings out the firecats, polaris brings out brand bashing add's.

greatwhitenorth, I think you're missing the point.
First of all, the edge chassis is not that old, and it's still a VERY effective trail sled, and that's not even Polaris's newest chassis. I don't think Polaris should rush out a new platform just because people expect them to reinvent the wheel.
The point of their add is to communicate to people that newer does not mean better.
It's all relative anyway. Do you remember back in the 90's when Polaris came out with the Xtra-12? Cat clung to their 8,5 inches of travel, and there was a real argument the merits of the long travel and it's effect on handeling. I remember Cat people (myself included) saying that they didn't want Cat to come out with a new suspension because they were happy with they way it was. And in many ways we were right, sleds still don't handle as good as they did in 1995, for example a ZR 700 or XCR 600.

All good points.

But whats with that BS about them inventing the snowmobile. Man do they need help.

As the history lesson goes back then there were hundreds of inventers comming out with snowmobile ideas. Patents were filled out and such.

But it was not until the 30s where the snowmobile as we know it was invented and in 1937 Joseph armand Bombardier had invented the snowmobile. Then we had the war and after the war in the 50s Bombardier started the company which brought out SKIDOO. Where was polaris at this point. THey probably had a machine before but couldnt release it becasue there manufactoring plant got flooded and all efforts were on bilging out the plant. PLEASE...

Polaris needs to let go of there dreams that they invented anything. They also need to realize that Newer is better in the sport of snowmobiling. You never here anyone say my 1978 everest is better then my 2003 REV. Every sled has its moments and somthing good about them, Such as the Mach Z and its 809 triple. Buts its time has also come and gone.

Originally posted by SNORAT@Nov 28 2003, 11:47 AM
The tiff between cat and Pol won't end anytime soon. It has been going on since the early days when one of the founders of Polaris went out and started his own company, building Arctic Cat snowmobiles.
Snorat, you hit the nail on the head.
You can chose your friends and you can even chose your enemies, but you can't chose your family.

Originally posted by Machzzzz1@Nov 28 2003, 08:32 PM
All good points.

But whats with that BS about them inventing the snowmobile. Man do they need help.

As the history lesson goes back then there were hundreds of inventers comming out with snowmobile ideas. Patents were filled out and such.

But it was not until the 30s where the snowmobile as we know it was invented and in 1937 Joseph armand Bombardier had invented the snowmobile. Then we had the war and after the war in the 50s Bombardier started the company which brought out SKIDOO. Where was polaris at this point. THey probably had a machine before but couldnt release it becasue there manufactoring plant got flooded and all efforts were on bilging out the plant. PLEASE...

Polaris needs to let go of there dreams that they invented anything. They also need to realize that Newer is better in the sport of snowmobiling. You never here anyone say my 1978 everest is better then my 2003 REV. Every sled has its moments and somthing good about them, Such as the Mach Z and its 809 triple. Buts its time has also come and gone.
I don't believe that Mr. Bombardier invented "the snowmobile as we know it" in the thirties.
Those first "snowmobiles" were nothing like what we ride today; they were a completely different design, more like a car with dual tracks and skis. I don't think having a track qualifies them as "the snowmobile as we know it today." Even Polaris' first sleds were nothing like what we have today, as far as the basic layout of the machine.
Snowmobiles as we know them didn't start until the sixties, and it would be pretty hard to label Pol, Cat, or Doo as the first one to build a sled "as we know them".

But back to the original topic, I think Cat's response was appropriate, and Polaris does need to "step up to the plate" with that new sled. I think they are too proud to admit that Cat had it right all along with a wishbone design, and that's why they are still building trailing arm sleds, just like when they kept building bogie wheel suspensions through the sixties, while Cat was using slide rail. They had better get over it soon, if they don't want to watch their market-share erode any further.

Originally posted by DamageInc@Nov 28 2003, 11:46 PM
I don't believe that Mr. Bombardier invented "the snowmobile as we know it" in the thirties.
Those first "snowmobiles" were nothing like what we ride today; they were a completely different design, more like a car with dual tracks and skis. I don't think having a track qualifies them as "the snowmobile as we know it today." Even Polaris' first sleds were nothing like what we have today, as far as the basic layout of the machine.
Snowmobiles as we know them didn't start until the sixties, and it would be pretty hard to label Pol, Cat, or Doo as the first one to build a sled "as we know them".

But back to the original topic, I think Cat's response was appropriate, and Polaris does need to "step up to the plate" with that new sled. I think they are too proud to admit that Cat had it right all along with a wishbone design, and that's why they are still building trailing arm sleds, just like when they kept building bogie wheel suspensions through the sixties, while Cat was using slide rail. They had better get over it soon, if they don't want to watch their market-share erode any further.
1937

Bombardier invented a sled driven with handlerbars that turned skis and driven by a track.

Started to mass produce them in the 50. I know my grandfather saw the add in popular science or some simular magazine, thought it was neat and bought two. So did a lot of other people in town, they even started a club. Polaris was not even in exsistance back in that time and they had nothing in the 30s. I belive there add says somthing about inventing the sled back in 1954, Thats about as false as all there claims. I lost a ton of respect for them hitting that far below the belt as to discredit bombardier with one thing us doo owners are proud of.

I gained a lot of credit to cat for there add.

You must be talking about the B7. The "7" stands for 7 passenger, and it also had dual tracks. Sorry, but that is not a snowmobile "as I know it".

Polaris was the first to market a snowmobile for recreational purposes, so in a sense they did invent it "as we know it". But like I said in a prior post, Doo, Pol and Cat all started building sleds with the current layout (single track, forward engine, etc) at around the same time, so it's hard to really say that one of them invented the sled as we know it.

First off your right about polaris having the first accually snowmobile that was marketed. But the first Snowmobile was invented by bombardier. There is pictures of him standing beside his model T powed sled in 1927. Also the first to be steered by skis in 1937. The B7 is from the 40 and then the 12 seater in the 50s for army use. If it wasnt for the war Bombardier would have had the skidoo recreational model out way sooner.

For polaris to run an add saying we invented the snowmobile is just a plain out lie. They were 30 years late.

But not only that. A little known fact is that on the first trip with the snow travler (Polaris's first snowmobile) it made it half way and then sputter sputter pop and it crapped out. Maybe Bombardier needs to run an add stating how some things never change. :D

I beleive that with the lack of snow the last few years, innovation is helping keep the companies selling sleds. With the lack of snow, if the sleds stayed exactly the same, who would go out and buy a new sled? By making the new innovations with the different sleds is making people want to buy new ones. Some will buy it just to be the big dog with the newest design sled, and some will buy it for styling, and others will buy it for the handling. I cant say I am brand loyal. I started on a cat, then I went to a doo, and then bought a cat and kept my doo. I even ahave an old Yamaha to putt around with. My opinion is like Machzzzz1's where Polaris has nothing new to show everyone, and they are struggling. How often do you hear about them winning in the grass drags all summer. I dont think they stuck out too much in snocross either. Just look at the number of posts in the Polaris forums compared to the cat and doo's. No one is talking about them. I just think they are sweating everyone elses innovations and are trying anyting to get some exposure.

Havent they been promising a new chassis for the last couple of years?

SWRules

Originally posted by Machzzzz1@Nov 28 2003, 11:17 PM
First off your right about polaris having the first accually snowmobile that was marketed. But the first Snowmobile was invented by bombardier. There is pictures of him standing beside his model T powed sled in 1927. Also the first to be steered by skis in 1937. The B7 is from the 40 and then the 12 seater in the 50s for army use. If it wasnt for the war Bombardier would have had the skidoo recreational model out way sooner.

For polaris to run an add saying we invented the snowmobile is just a plain out lie. They were 30 years late.

But not only that. A little known fact is that on the first trip with the snow travler (Polaris's first snowmobile) it made it half way and then sputter sputter pop and it crapped out. Maybe Bombardier needs to run an add stating how some things never change. :D
Not the just the first to be marketed, the first to be marketed for recreation. The first B7's were built in 1936-37, but they were marketed for business use, i.e. police, doctors, mail, etc. It wasn't just marketing either, they weren't designed for recreation, obviously.

Bombardier didn't sell their first recreational sled until 59-60. Polaris sold their first recreational sled in 1954, but it still didn't use the modern forward-engine design that we know today.

I guess it all comes down to what you consider a snowmobile as we know it today. IMO, there was nothing similar to what we drive until the 60's.

It is disappointing to me to see a company stoop to such a low level of conduct. While it may be true the big three (chevy,fordand Dodge) do this, it is never to the degree as Polaris. All they ever say is things such as longest lasting, most power, most whatever. And in every add there is disclaimers. They never (at least that I have seen) paste big adds in magizine for the sole purpose of pointing out others flaws. And as already stated above at least they fixed the problems and informed their consumers Just my .02$ though :dazed: :crazy:

Originally posted by b349@Nov 29 2003, 09:04 AM
They never (at least that I have seen) paste big adds in magizine for the sole purpose of pointing out others flaws. And as already stated above at least they fixed the problems and informed their consumers Just my .02$ though :dazed: :crazy:
A company standing behind their product and fixing their mistakes is certainly better than one that just leaves the consumer out to dry, but winter is short enough...it would be much better not to have the problems to begin with.

In any industry change is necessary period. I work for P&G in the largest plant in the US (Bounty is the best paper towel). I had an older guy at the plant tell me one time about change. To sit still is to stagnate and the your competition will go by and the company will die, but uncontrolled change is like a cancer and will kill you just as fast. I think that Polaris is seeing the effects of the stagnation and Cat had the semi-uncontrolled change going on with the Firecat. They had the right idea with the innovation, but came out a little early but probably news of the REV was in the air. At least they're trying to to d the right thing with their updates. Doo and Yamaha really did their homework in the innovation department.
Just my .02c

Bryan