Yes the Liberal will bring back PHOTORADAR :cussing:

Where are all the idiots that voted Liberal :cussing:

Taxes are going up :cussing:

Hydro going up :cussing:

Now a cash cow for the government called PHOTO RADAR :cussing:

Good thing it is not used in Northern Ontario but it won't be long

Can I ask who you voted for Freezerburnt?

I voted for the idots that 1st brought it in :(

NDP

Well, there you go. No matter who you vote for they're going to do somethings you don't like. As long as they don't screw things up more then absolutly necesary.

Originally posted by FreezerBurnt@Jan 14 2004, 05:47 PM
Yes the Liberal will bring back PHOTORADAR :cussing:

Where are all the idiots that voted Liberal :cussing:

Taxes are going up :cussing:

Hydro going up :cussing:

Now a cash cow for the government called PHOTO RADAR :cussing:

Good thing it is not used in Northern Ontario but it won't be long
Where did you hear this?

Its all over the news. I must of heard it atleast twice in the last 2 minuted on the radio.

it has been on the news all day

Global/MCTV/CH have had stories on it

the problem I have with it

Is Norman Bates said he is re intsating it for revenue and NOT for road safety

He blatantly said it was for $$$

Yes the SOB is thinking of bringing it back!!. But!! Watch out he may be only using this to scare you while he "SNEAKS" some other cash grab right by you. :devil:

The city of Pittsburgh is broke. Our parking tax is going to be 50%. This is going to put parking for the day up to $25-30 a day!!!!!!! It is at ~30% percent now and we are already the highest in the states!!! Good news is that we got a new ballpark and a new football stadium with loosing teams!!! AND the Penguins want a new Igloo!!! :cussing:

Old Ernie doesn't seem like such a slime-ball now, does he???

the only difference between Dalton Mcguinty and Bob Rae is McGuinty is too stupid to know he can't do the job.

How about we nick name him Billy Bob Mcguinty :D

Originally posted by The Hossman@Jan 15 2004, 03:52 AM
Old Ernie doesn't seem like such a slime-ball now, does he???
Ah....yes, he does.

Originally posted by paul yarek@Jan 15 2004, 04:28 AM
the only difference between Dalton Mcguinty and Bob Rae is McGuinty is too stupid to know he can't do the job.
Now THAT'S Funny!!! :withstupid: :p :p :lol: :D :D :p

One of Mr. Pointyhead's promises during the election was to legislate a fixed election day. I bet that he'll break that 1 too & hold on till the bitter end like Bob Rae.

He know's what happened to his Liberal predecessor, David Peterson who called an election early into his mandate. Unfortunately, that's when Bob Rae got in.

McGuinty is too stupid to know he can't do the job.

I think the guy is out of his element. Whenever he's on TV he looks like the proverbial deer in the headlights.

It's too bad the media during the election didn't spend as much time looking into him & his fellow Liberals as they did running down Eves & the Conservatives.

Finally, he can't let snowmobiling in Ont. go down the drain. As everyone know our annual registration fee goes straight into General Revenues :cussing: .

I'll take Ernie back in a heartbeat. Not that I didn't try my best to keep him.

Of course they are bringing back photo radar, how else do you expect them to pay for the Billion dollars they have pi$$ed away on that farce of a gun registry.

1 Billion. Think about it 1000 x 1Million dollars. Wasted. Well, maybe not wasted, they have laid 1 charge under the law, so I guess it was a worthwhile investment.

I myself, think that a MRI machine in every hospital in Canada would have been a better investment.

Oh, you had to get me started.......Now I'm in a bad mood again, even with the snow on the ground.

Damn Liberals :crazy:

The Liberals that are responsible for the gun registry are not the same as the ones bringing in Photo Rader. Should Mike Harris and Ernie have been condemned because of Mulroney's mistakes? God knows that Harris and Eves made enough blunders of their own, they don't need to be blamed for anything else.

You could say that the Liberals have to bring back photo rader to pay for the 5 Billion dollar defecit that Eves left them.
Think about that; 5 X 1000 X 1million. Imagine the MRI machines that that could buy.

Now you've got me in a bad mood again, even with the snow on the ground.

Newfie your so wrong.

Mike harris was the best thing that happened to ontario. He finally started to straiten up one hell of a huge mess we call a province. He really kicked some ### and got this province back into gear. Ernie was also doing a good job. I didn't like him as much as Harris but I still though he was better then the liberals.

Mike would never let the ofsc shut down, Ernie would have probably done more then Dalton is going to do.

And That BS about the deficit the Conserv gov't left is nothing but a line that every smart voter knew was coming. How else can a party break all promises less then a week after the election. 5 billion may seem like one hell of a huge emount to us but for a province its just business as usual. They have deals with banks and people and regardless of what you are saying it was all part of there plan and if ernie was left in power it would never have been a problem. But its a good way for dalton to blame all his problems on and make him self look like the big hero.

congrats to all Libiral voters. You have just put the biggest Liar, Greenie, City dweller in power and all of us real Canadians that fly our Flag and have accually ventured outside of Toronto, we got the short end of the stick.

Photo radar. Great...

Originally posted by Machzzzz1@Jan 15 2004, 09:59 PM
Mike harris was the best thing that happened to ontario. He finally started to straiten up one hell of a huge mess we call a province. He really kicked some ### and got this province back into gear.
:p :p :p :p :p
Now That's the funniest thing I've read in a LONG while.

Let's see, Harris and Eves slashed and burned every Government service there was, sold off any assest that he could get away with selling, cut away at the social safety net, cut funding to education and health care, privatized anything that was actually making money, and still managed to leave office with things in worse shape then when they started.

I honestly don't think they could've done a worse job had they tried. Of course it's not like they were actually trying to govern. They were simply creating oppertunities for their cronies to get richer while they eroded the wealth of the middle class, and downright attacked the poor.

They were good at somethings though. They've somehow managed to convice a large minority of the population that Ontario would be better off with Conservitives in power, even after years and years of evidence to the contrary.

Well Mr. Pointyhead has been in office for 3 & 1/2 months now. Lets see how things look in 4 years. I wonder how many promises he'll make then to try & keep his job.

Vote for change. Yeah we got a different politician running the show. He can't force the company to lower the 407 tolls because there is a contract. He must have known there was a contract that couldn't be reversed. Either that or he is incredibly naive.

This guy got elected because people didn't want the Tories anymore & the Liberals said everything the lemmings here wanted to hear.

BTW, we hit a winter record for hydro used on Wednesday. McG' wants to close the coal fired plants & we barely have the generation capacity right now. I wonder what he'll do this summer it is hot & everyone has their AC cranked up to max? Blame Ernie for the weather?

What's he going to do when MI closes its border to Toronto's garbage? I could go on & on, but in the end being the leader of the opposition is easy. If & when you get elected you have to govern & not pass the buck or blame something or someone else for your problems. Kind of like , "the buck stops here".

once again :withstupid: you can't save money without making cuts.........

Do you people realize what you're saying? You're praising the PC's for all the cuts they made, while defending the fact that they never really achieved anything. And now that the Liberals are coming up with different plans to tackle the same issues you are shooting them down before we get to see any results.

As for the NDP, when they got in power and tried to make cuts to bring spending under control everyone turned on them.

The problem is, no matter what a Party we don't like does, we'll probably never agree with it.

Originally posted by revrnd@Jan 15 2004, 11:11 AM
David Peterson who called an election early into his mandate. Unfortunately, that's when Bob Rae got in.

that's when i voted to scare the liberals and it turned out so did the rest of the province. i bet the next day if there would have been another vote it would have nothing like the actual outcome that put bob rae in.

Originally posted by NewfieBullet@Jan 15 2004, 09:17 PM
Do you people realize what you're saying? You're praising the PC's for all the cuts they made, while defending the fact that they never really achieved anything. And now that the Liberals are coming up with different plans to tackle the same issues you are shooting them down before we get to see any results.

As for the NDP, when they got in power and tried to make cuts to bring spending under control everyone turned on them.

The problem is, no matter what a Party we don't like does, we'll probably never agree with it.
The Conservatives said up front what they were going to do. There were no surprises.

The Liberal Finance critic Gerry Phillips said (and this has been printed in the papers) last spring that the PC numbers were a mess & the deficit was more than likely around 5 billion dollars. Did Dalton not know about this? He goes into the election promising the moon. Then he gets elected & all of a sudden he says the deficit is 5.6 billion & I can't do anything that I promised.

That is what people are ticked off about.

Dalton flip flopped with in 5 YES 5 minutes after wining the election.......
Hes first speech after wining he said " ofcours we will not be able to solve all the prablomes, and we Will make mistakes on the way.....

The S.O.B knew of the deficit I mean come on really, he flip flop on hes Hydro promise within a week???

We should call for a new election and see how many would vote that liar back in.

Originally posted by Andy Dragon@Jan 15 2004, 11:48 PM
LOL, I think this is what people were most PO'd about - a Tory that didn't lie! He said he was gonna cut everything...and he did. Truth in politics scares people...

:D
I would rather get spit in the face than stabed in the back!

Well, as far as I'm concerned telling us that selling off Hydro One, and every other government asset, was for our own benefit was a much bigger lie.
Or how about the fact that right up until the end the Conservatives lied about the deficit? You're all saying that Liberals must have known that the deficit was that big, but what about the Conservatives? Why don't you mind the fact that they "didn't know" there was a 5.6 billion dollar deficit? They were in power! They were the source of the problem , but were either too stupid to know what was going on, or chose to lie to us about it! I can't believe anybody would defend them!

Andy, I don't understand. Now you're complaining about the Liberals having uncontrolled spending? I thought the whole issue was that thay said they didn't have money, and so weren't spending. Please tell me where you think they're spending too much money. Education? Health Care? The Environment? Where, please tell me,

God Bless politics :thumbsup:

Originally posted by NewfieBullet@Jan 15 2004, 09:17 PM
Do you people realize what you're saying?
Yep I do.

but thats the wonderful thing about politics. We can each have our own opinions, and vote the way we think is best.

The part that bugs me, is all the city folk, who have never spent anytime outdoors, and live their live on a subway or in the mall, make up such a large percentage of the voter.

Those of us who enjoy nature and the world outside of Toronto/Montreal, etc, get screwed everytime.

:cussing: So true Permy :) :withstupid:

from Spring Bear hunt to gun registry to enviro wackos to garbage

They just don't give **** about real people

BTW I get a kick out of all the ignorant morons embarrassed over the T.O. Garbage going to Michigan yet they don't give a **** about shipping it up north :cussing: THAT PISSES ME OFF :cussing:

And Norman Bates seems to want the garbage up NORTH Now WTF :cussing:

Same with the Bears now in power Thee won't bring back the spring Bear hunt because of the votes in T.O. :cussing:

Solve your own problems leave the reat of us alone!!!!!!! :cussing:

Originally posted by FreezerBurnt@Jan 16 2004, 11:16 AM
And Norman Bates seems to want the garbage up NORTH Now WTF :cussing:


His cousin (last name McGuinty, don't know his first) owns the Adams mine property. What a coincidence. Mind you he has been involved w/ it since day 1 long before Mr. Pointyhead got elected.

Andy Dragon ....I think I like you.

Andy Dragon for Premier of Ontario :D :thumbsup:

It's really great after finishing my shift on Saturday or Sunday & driving past 1 of the welfare apartments in the south end of Oshawa and seeing a bunch of slugs sitting @ a picnic table littered w/ empties. Kind of makes it worthwhile that I went to work that day doesn't it? I have no problem w/ workfare. We all see people that have no ambition to get a real job or better themselves. This is especially prevalent in smaller towns where you know or @ least recognize people. You know who is working & who isn't.

Originally posted by Andy Dragon@Jan 16 2004, 10:17 PM
If you can't tow the line, die.


I guess that about sums it up.
Oh well, every man for himself then!

I'm glad I'm not your neighbor. Though if you get sick or disabled, or otherwise can't work, I won't suggest that you crawl of and die somewhere.

Let's just agree to disagree.

:withstupid: :blahblah: :sleeping: lazy people :cussing: pay your own way :D looking for a free ride :lookaround: ................etc..........

I'd like to believe that we're living in a caring and compasionate society, where our goal is not simply to amass as much wealth as we can, but where we can be genuinly interested in helping those less fortuante than ourselves. Certainly within our own country you don't even need to be altruistic to want to help others. It simply makes our country a better, more pleasant, and safer place to have a strong social safety net.

People often complain about welfare fraud, and I've no doubt that there are people who abuse the system. THere are also others who really need and deserve a helping hand, and they can't get it because we've tightened the regulations a little too much. THat to me is a bigger problem then some lazy b astard with a drinking problem who'd on welfare. It's probably better to have him there then trying to hold down a job and bringing down the productivity of his workplace, or ending up in jail, where it would cost more money.

Basically, I think the right-wing perspective on all this is both short-sighted and greedy. It's all about saving money now, no matter what the concequences will be, and worrying that someone might be benifiting from the system more than you.

You know what? Someone talked about a bunch of guys on welfare sitting around a picnic table drinking. 'That's probably as good as it will ever get for them. They'll never know what it's like to go shopping for a new truck, never get the new vehicle smell, will never get to walk out of a dealership and load up a brand new ski-doo, and they'll have the satisfaction of knowing that they are indispensible at work, that they're employer needs them there.

I'm not jealous of them at all, if anything I feel sorry for people who don't have enough drive to try and get ahead.

As for healthcare, the Reform party started this whole idea years ago that we could somehow magically improve our healthcare system by simple cutting spending and "reorganizing" it. That is wishful thinking, or worse, a willful misleading of the public. Our healthcare system is in crisis, and needs some big dollars if we are to continue to have a world-class universal healthcare system.

On a more practical note, photo rader is a snap to beat. Its on all the time so your rader dectector starts howling a mile ahead....an undetectable one of course, theres lots of them out there. You can by a plate cover from a guy in ottawa....www.redline.com I think...defeats the cameras.....works on the 407 with some fiddling as well. Do the old 407 trick, drive with your tail gate down....works too. The 407 is my fav rant and who sold it to the Spainards...? and who's idea was it in the first place....?.....thank bob and mike

Speaking of welfare fraud, a former resident of Apsley (not originally from there) was found guilty of his FIFTH impaired driving charge recently in Peterborough. He was also found guilty of defrauding welfare of just over 5Gs while working @ a local marina. He has been ordered to repay it. As if. What incentive is there for him to get a job when he knows the gov't is going to garnishee his wages. I've known of him for about 15 years & I'll just leave it @ that :cussing:

BTW, this was in the paper the same week that the Liberal MPP (female, don't know her name) says people who are found guilty of welfare fraud shouldn't be banned for life.

I think Mike Harris is the best thing that ever happened to ontario. make the lazy welfare collecting work instead of us working guys pay for their booze and cigarettes. His workfare program was exactly what this country needs. Theres too many people collecting from the system weather it be pogie or welfare. make people work for there money instead of leaching off the working man. and these guys who work half the year in construction and then take the winters off (collecting pogie) how f'n lazy can you get. if everyone worked instead of expecting to get everything handed to them this world would be a better place. why do you expect everyne else to support your lazy a$$?

Originally posted by butternutz@Jan 18 2004, 08:05 AM
I think Mike Harris is the best thing that ever happened to ontario. make the lazy welfare collecting work instead of us working guys pay for their booze and cigarettes. His workfare program was exactly what this country needs. Theres too many people collecting from the system weather it be pogie or welfare. make people work for there money instead of leaching off the working man. and these guys who work half the year in construction and then take the winters off (collecting pogie) how f'n lazy can you get. if everyone worked instead of expecting to get everything handed to them this world would be a better place. why do you expect everyne else to support your lazy a$$?
So now we should just do away with seasonal work too? All I can say is, Thank God most people don't think like you, or this country would be a terrible place to live.

Holy, I didn't realise so many people here liked the Tories. I can't vote, but my old man was always 100% behind Harris and Eves, and from what I have read/saw I liked them too. I liked the welfare ideas, but most people I know don't. Ohhh well, everyone complained about the Tories, now wait another 4 years, and they'll be complaining about the Liberals.. lol

Originally posted by 485ccofphazer@Jan 18 2004, 07:57 PM
everyone complained about the Tories, now wait another 4 years, and they'll be complaining about the Liberals.. lol
It was a week after they got elected we started to scream "Fiberals" :D :cussing:

Oh, I didn't know that being Liberal meant you had to be corrupt, but that all the PC's are so honest. I guess I'll have to vote PC next time.

Originally posted by NewfieBullet@Jan 19 2004, 08:24 AM
Oh, I didn't know that being Liberal meant you had to be corrupt, but that all the PC's are so honest. I guess I'll have to vote PC next time.
All Right :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Andy, you converted him. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Ok, I'm just joking, so don't get upset. Obvioulsy, us PC supporters are the minority. For now. But not on this site from what I can see.

FishHog

Originally posted by FishHog@Jan 19 2004, 09:51 PM
Obvioulsy, us PC supporters are the minority. For now. But not on this site from what I can see.

FishHog
I certainly won't argue with you about that. There certainly does seem to be a majority of tory voters here.

Are we allowed to talk politics on snowmobileworld?

If we were in the U.S.A. California that is.......Dalton would be out of office and charged for lying to public to get in office, almost all hes promises are being broken........

Don't even get me started on California. Their electoral laws are whackO! They make it just about impossible to govern the place, and are extremely discriminatory to anybody in office.

Just stating that if you are elected because of the promisses you made, you should try to keep at least 60 % or step down.

Wow; some pretty strong opinions in this thread! Ok; I'll play! :D

BTW, this was in the paper the same week that the Liberal MPP (female, don't know her name) says people who are found guilty of welfare fraud shouldn't be banned for life.
I agree with her. The problem with banning everyone is twofold. First, people that were being overpaid through no fault or knowledge of their own were considered to be defrauding the system. If you are being overpaid it is up to you to know that you are being overpaid and then to notify social services. My paycheque changes from week to week because of the different deductions, I don't know how you would keep track if you had a welfare overpayment, especially if it was miscalculated from day one.

Secondly, because the penalty is so high (banned for life), prosecutors were reluctant to prosecute anyone who really was defrauding the system, so they were left to get away with it.

As far as the whole political discussion goes, to save myself a whole bunch of typing I'm just going to say attaboy NewfieBullet; couldn't have stated my case better myself. :) People do get injured through no fault of their own (kinda ironic that Andy Dragon refers to welfare users as lame) and as a caring compassionate society we don't just leave them to rot and die. The same goes for our elderly who built this great country in the first place. And the same for anyone that finds themselves temporarily on the rocks; it can happen to anyone of us, and you'd be amazed at how quickly. Fortunately most people receive welfare as a temporary hand-up and get back into the workforce. As far as those that do soak the system, there are people at work every day earning a paycheque that "soak the system" and never do an honest days work. So should the boss just fire us all because of a few?

As far as "welfare mom's" go, does anyone have any idea how hard it is to get off the system as a young mother? If they try to go to school to get some skills, they are cut off. Child care costs make it unafordable to go to anything but a good paying job. What's that? They shouldn't have gotten pregnant in the first place? Too bad we don't hold the dad's to the same standards.

Ok; next! w00t

Jacqui, if you knew the guy I was referring to, you'd be :cussing: too. If a person has a legitimate mental or physical impairment that means they can't support themselves, I don't have a problem supporting them. But if the person is on welfare because their EI ran out & they don't want to work, I have a problem w/ that.

There's another useless piece of white trash that lives up the street from my parents that everyday they'd see him walk down the street then back up w/ a LCBO bag under his arm. As far as they know, he doesn't work.

A girl that my mother talks to, said the guy wondered if he could have some of their firewood last winter. She said they didn't have a lot to share, but he could have a wheelbarrow load. The guy said he couldn't pay for it, but would she take some weed in trade? She wasn't impressed & said NO, we don't care for that.

I wonder how this guy is supporting himself?

I guess as long as these able bodied people don't want to work, farmers in the Niagara & other regions of Ontario will have to bring in migrant workers from out of the country to harvest the fruits & vegetables.

As far as those that do soak the system, there are people at work every day earning a paycheque that "soak the system" and never do an honest days work. So should the boss just fire us all because of a few?


That's about the best analogy I've heard yet. I hope you don't mind if I use it in the future.


Now my sister is having trouble so I'm teaching her how to write software and paying her a bit more than she's worth, but once again we are taking care of our own instead of leeching off society.
But where would she be if you weren't in a position to help her? There are lots of people who don't have anyone to give them a helping hand.

As for the guys who don't work but always have new cars, they're not on welfare, they're probably dealers. Now, you might not consider that work, but they're providing a service to those in need and doing it at great risk to themselves.

If you don't like your tax dollars helping out those who you don't think deserve it, think of it this way. Your tax dollars can go to paying for road upkeep, garbage collection, the MNR, Health Care, The Police, Forest Fire Fighting, and an endless list of other things that someone has got to pay for.

People have been complaining about paying taxes ever since humans could speak, but there's only two things we can't avoid; Death and Taxes. So suck it up.

AndyDragon, you are obviously a very hard worker with a solid set of ethics. However, there are also people who through no fault of their own are also very hard workers but haven't had the opportunities that others have had, or those opportunities were taken away from them.

I remember back in the late '70's when I was first out of high school and working in an accounting/bankrupcy office. There was a huge economic downturn, Chrysler was talking about folding and all three of the big three were laying off in mass numbers as well as the feeder plants. Business at the bankruptcy office was, needless to say, booming. Hard working people were put out of their good paying jobs through no fault of their own and were losing everything in the process. I remember Canada Mortgage and Housing taking a can opener off the wall in a house repossession because the people had put down "household possessions" as colateral. There were no jobs for the taking. Many people ended up moving out west to try and find work there.

I would certainly never feel that any of these people deserved the hand they were dealt, and don't begrudge any of them any social assistance they may have accessed until they were able to get back on their feet.

There will always be people who abuse the system no matter what system it is, but I don't believe we just turn our backs on those truly in need.

When I think of the taxes I pay (and while I'm not in your league, AndyDragon, I pay more in taxes than many people earn in a year) I think of the fact that if I or a loved one is hospitalized for any reason we won't be bankrupted by a big medical bill at the end. How often do we read posts from our American friends about someone who was smashed up in an accident and now has to raise $50 or $100 or more thousands of dollars to pay off their hospital bills? None of us are happy about paying taxes but it pays for a lot of things I'd never want to do without.

Originally posted by jacqui583@Jan 21 2004, 01:20 PM
None of us are happy about paying taxes but it pays for a lot of things I'd never want to do without.
Well said Jackie583 How true.

Originally posted by MXZOOoom@Jan 19 2004, 07:55 PM
If we were in the U.S.A. California that is.......Dalton would be out of office and charged for lying to public to get in office, almost all hes promises are being broken........
Yes, but Dalton DOES have an open door policy... :dazed: :crazy:

I wonder how many of you have ever lived and worked in a different country? That way you get different perspectives. I have lived and worked in europe Australia and the U.S. I have dual american and Canadian citizenship....I choose to live here...take your ideas somewhere else for a couple of years and then come back and talk to us

Bah..I've lived in the Netherlands and have dual Dutch/Canadian Citizenship. If I hadn't met Andy when I did, I would be living in the Netherlands right now. I came back from Europe and wasn't happy with the way Canada had changed in the time I was gone.

With work, I have also had the opportunity to travel to many places in the world and have seen how others live.

Taxes are high all over the world, but Canada still has one of the highest tax rates out there, IIRC.

I do agree a lot with what Andy has to say, but not so passionately. I believe that as Canadians, we expect the gov't to subsidize or pay for a lot of our services. I believe that this is killing us with higher tax rates and a bigger deficit. We do need to cut services and I believe that Mike Harris was on the right track with that. He did a lot of good for Ontario. Instead though of cutting hospital beds etc, why not look at the amount that doctors are being paid? Same as with gov't officials. Instead of looking at ways to cut cost that actually hurt the little man, why not cut spending and salaries at the top?

Renee

Originally posted by flower picker@Jan 22 2004, 07:51 PM


Instead though of cutting hospital beds etc, why not look at the amount that doctors are being paid? Same as with gov't officials. Instead of looking at ways to cut cost that actually hurt the little man, why not cut spending and salaries at the top?

Renee
Well that's pretty funny. Andy was saying that it's the higher taxes that are driving away our brightest and best: you want to drive them away with low wages instead.

Flower picker, our deficit and debt are no higher than it is in the States, it's just that they chose to spend their money on things other than health care.

I don't understand people making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year moaning about people collect 10,000 a year on welfare. If you had to live on it you'd probably want to drink away your sorrows too.

Originally posted by FreezerBurnt@Jan 14 2004, 05:52 PM
I voted for the idots that 1st brought it in* :(

NDP
Why does it not surprise me that you voted for the NDP!!!! :D :D :D

The only government that wants PEOPLE on WELFARE to own pools and have all the things that are great and hard to earn by sitting at home so they DON'T feel LEFT OUT >>>>BLAHHHHHHHHHHH :devil: :devil: blahhhhhhh


Ps ...whats killing us......the people in Ontario and Toronto carry the BRUNT of Canada instead of keeping the money thats made here its spread all over

Andy and Newf I want your opinion here

My view is Welfare should be a 3-6month bandaid and after that times is up,if you don't have a job you got a problem

It should be there as a pick me up not a lifestyle

Also if you are on welfare during that time you should be in some sort of training/school program(problem it cost money but will get people taking of themselves) at least 4 days a week from 11am -3pm working on skills,as 8am-10am you should be out looking for a job :sly:

Maybe foodstamps,nothing :cussing: me off more then someone that goes to bars or/and buys a case of beer while on welfare

I drive by the BEER store on my way to work and always see welfare scum with a grocery cart with empties go to the BEER store and come out with another case

Don't people have pride anymore??

I have no problem with welfare but I know people that have been on it for yrs

Synn,why don't you run for mayor of Toronto and make its own country :cussing: :D

Originally posted by Synn@Jan 23 2004, 06:30 AM

Ps ...whats killing us......the people in Ontario and Toronto carry the BRUNT of Canada instead of keeping the money thats made here its spread all over
Not hard to tell where you're from.
How many natural resources are in Tononto? Not very many. Where do you think the wealth in Canada comes from?
And people in TOronto wonder why nobody in Canada likes them.

Andy, where are you getting your numbers from. 1/10 of educated Canadians leaving the country seems a tad high, but I still think that moving to the States is a punishment, and certainly not a reward. I wouldn't live there for all the tea in China.

Freezerburnt, I think we should have a garunteed income that everyone would qualify for. That would take care of the need for welfare.

As for ultra-conservatives like Andy Dragon, they want to see Canada tunred into a sort of bannana republic of the north. We shall all worship the almighty dollar, we'll kow-tow to any and all wishes the american government might have. The rich will pay no taxes, and get much richer. The poor will of course get much poorer. The rich will then have to live in barricaded estates because of the incredibly high crime rate, but at least they won't be paying taxes.

Look at a country like Brazil or Panama and you'll see Canada as it should be according to Andy Dragon.

Originally posted by Andy Dragon@Jan 23 2004, 12:09 AM
Further, doctors are but one small section of the "brighest and best"...just the most corrupt and overpaid of them.* What do they care about taxes - they are paid with our taxes.* What about all the businesses that get the crap taxed out of them and end up moving to the US because the taxes are so much better?* What about the fact that nearly a tenth of all graduates move to lower-paying but much lower-taxed positions in the US?* Ten percent doesn't sound like much until you think that one out of ten people educated here leave because of the taxation.* Not doctors though.* They've got it too good here to leave.

I don't understand what the fact that someone is paid with tax dollars has to do with anything? Do you feel that teachers, police officers, military people, and anyone else in public service has no right to want to be fairly compensated?

Maybe things are different up in Penetanguishene, but we've lost quite a few doctors in the Windsor area and we are crying for doctors of all kinds. Why are they leaving? They can earn more money in the states, and they won't be as overworked as they are here. How long does it take to get in to see a specialist in Penetanguishene? Our waiting lists are unbelieveable.

A large number of people here can't get a family doctor and are forced to use clinics. There's no way to get consistent care when you're not being treated by a primary physician. We have no full-time child psychiatrists in Windsor/Essex County. People here can't utilize the child psychiatrists in London because we're not part of their "catch basin" for patients, so parents have to take their kids to the states and pay out of pocket (even though in Canada it would be covered through OHIP) to see U.S. child psychiatrists. Perhaps to someone with a lot of money this wouldn't be an issue or make them bat an eye, but to the average "Joe Citizen" trying to care for his child, this is a very harsh reality. For those that simply can't afford it, we will all suffer for it down the road.

I think what all of you are failing to realise is that politics and the abilty to govern is a scam. Politicians rarely look to the future, for the most part they react as they govern.

But I think the biggest mistake in this arguement is the deficits we are all paying for because of the mistakes of the Trudeau government in turning Canada into a socialist state. Canada is in deep and the ability to get out decreases each passing year. I hope that people dont think that we will keep the extensive social programs that we have now. Wake up and take care of yourself. The government wont do it.

Also "Iron Mike" was the only politician to actually do what he has said he would do. Look how many promises McGimpy has broken! Keeps blaming it in the deficit yet no one has asked for proof of the 5.6 billion dollar hole he claims he is in.
Its amazing that no actually call out the liberal media for the political bias.

CBC is an oxy moron

Originally posted by Andy Dragon@Jan 23 2004, 03:15 PM
The doctors around here won't take new patients - and it's not because they are overworked, it's because they are being paid enough to NOT CARE.* I talked to a doctor about this and he was point blank honest about it.* He did not want to take me as a regular patient because he is making enough money.* Not because he was overworked or stressed out, because he was making enough.
I can't remember which party was in power at the time but about 10 or 11 years ago they put in the billing cap for doctors. That meant that once the doctor had reached that billing cap, any more patients he tended to would have to be for free. So if he reached that cap in say October, he would have to close his office until the next year.

At the time the max that any doctor could bill OHIP for was $250,000 a year. Out of that they had to pay their staff, rent, etc. That's why a proliferation of clinics sprung up; you needed several doctors working under one office in order to make a profit. You might remember that time because the doctors were all talking about going on strike about it.

Now I'm thinking that the cap has probably gone up a little bit since then, but I can't help but think that someone who has to do (I think) 8 years of post secondary school (and pay for it), including an internship where they have to work unbelieveable hours, has earned the right to be earning a decent dollar. Andy, you're a businessman; how much take home pay do you think a doctor would be earning on $250,000 after paying for a nurse, a receptionist, office space and related expenses, medical insurance, and so on? And how long would you provide your services for free because you weren't allowed to bill anymore for a certain year?

Andy, you stated in an earlier post about having to pay a half a mill a year in taxes; I'm thinking you're making a heck of a lot more money that these doctors.

So i guess we are all for Photo radar :p

Originally posted by FreezerBurnt@Jan 23 2004, 09:34 PM
So i guess we are all for Photo radar :p
Six pages and we are still not sure lol

:withstupid: the best way i can put this is that i would gladly pay if i believed that my money was being properly managed.but i do not believe that this is happening :( photo radar is just a smoke and mirror act to direct our anger away from the broken promises.........think about it. :ohmy:

Originally posted by Andy Dragon@Jan 23 2004, 11:47 PM
Jacqui, this is a great conversation. We disagree, but we can be mature about it...this is what online arguments SHOULD be like. :D
I agree; in case it's not obvious I love these debates! w00t
I'd LOVE to see teachers get just as much, after all, they are responsible for paving the future of this nation.
Now here's something we agree on; the Mike Harris government devestated the teaching profession showed no respect for the people that are guiding our future generations. He made them the scapegoat with mandatory testing when we all (parents) know that the real culprit is the funding cuts to the school systems; overcrowded classrooms, lack of books and supplies, and don't even get me started on kids with special needs! :cussing:

I do have to say that I was thrilled to hear that the liberal government is finally going to put the federal transfer payments (9.7 million dollars) for Early Childhood
Development into non-profit, regulated, child care centres for capital repairs and upgrades (something I've been advocating about for years). The previous Tory government wouldn't spend a penny on childcare, instead using it all to set up kiosks with information about how to play with your kids, mainly to try to convince us that they actually cared about kids. This is an encouraging sign that the new Liberal government recognizes the value of not-for-profit and regulated care. As you said, Andy, it's all about our future generations. When parents have access to good quality affordable child-care they can then get into the workforce, not to mention that these licensed programs are very stimulating and beneficial for kids who aren't in a situation where they are at home with their parents during the day.

I think we're all in agreement that the photo-radar is just a money grab. (Wow! Did we actually get back on the original topic? :blush: )

I guess there's some things we'll have to agree to disagree on, but it's certainly been an interesting debate! :)