Last night my wife was channel surfing and notice some sleds on a program, so she left it on. It was Current Affair and they were doing a prize winning piece on drunken snowmobilers on poker runs. Of course they had to dig up the 1% of a-holes to target. These mental midgets they had on film were drinking at all nine bars they stopped at. And they have one on tape saying its not about riding or poker its about getting drunk. I don't know who disgusts me more the a$$ holes they caught on tape riding drunk 50-80 mph or the Freakin TV show for digging these idiots up to give the rest of us a bad name.
:cussing: :cussing: :cussing: :cussing: :cussing:

I saw that last year

It was filmed in Manitoba

Don't you love the fact that they can control what they want the viewers to see :cussing:

Gotta' hate the riders more than the show-the show is just the medium and Bad News Sells. We had one 2 seasons ago on a local station with a hidden camera, talking to some piece of trailer trash (Trailertrash: not you, no insult intended) in a bar and her saying how she drives better after a few-no matter what you do, you can't stamp out ignorance. Just try to get the word out about the good side-another words, the 99%.

I don't even really know what to say to this. It is very unfortunate the only way these people usually learn is the hard way, and by that time it is too late. The worst part is when it is someone elses family or LIFE that they disturb just because "they drive better after a few drinks".

Seems last night was not the night to be watching TV if youre a sledder!! This TV program was on here last night also and it was filmed this season on a poker run outside of Rome, NY. I think it was in the Tughill area as I saw a couple familiar names on the bar fronts. It was a pretty sad show after listening to a few of the drunks talking or trying to talk and tell the reporter how cool it was to get drunk and then hop on his sled.Then the next news show showed a story on a 20 yr. old girl that had been killed by a drunk flying across a lake and hit her broadside! Hes now in jail where he should be. Then the last show was the last and it had a article on the closings of Yellowstone Park and how the environmental do gooders have caused just about the entire town to be shut down financially because they were causing noise and smoke!! Then to top the entire evening off-they had a Senator telling us all to hold on to our pants as the same tree huggers do gooders have put a stop to the future oil drilling in Alaska.He said by the summer we will be paying over $2 a gallon because of these idiots. Here around WNY the prices are already getting close to that and Im sure they won't be going lower in the near future!

Well I have to disagree with some of, not on the issue of drinking and driving, but on who's to blame about the bad publicity. I think it is the fault of the media for putting that kind of slant on every story they do about snowmobiling.

For instance, at the local ski hill here the ambulance is carting away people every day with broken arms or twisted knees. There is never a report on the evening news about it. It doesn't matter if the person was loaded drunk, and will now cost the taxpayers thousands of dollars, it's just not news.

Then there was a report of a "snowmobile accident" A guy had parked his sled on one side of the road and went to the store on the other side of the road. Crossing the road, on foot mind you, he was struck by a car. This was reported, and recorded as a snowmobile accident.

Figure that one out! It makes no sense to me whatsoever!

Originally posted by NewfieBullet@Mar 5 2004, 12:26 PM
I think it is the fault of the media for putting that kind of slant on every story they do about snowmobiling.
I think it's the fault of people not thinking critically. I thought it was obvious that the media only tells one side of the story and sways the story to support their own views, but I guess not :whatever:

i dont understand why the news only shows the bad side of ALL stories.As a snowmobiler this pisses me of because u are put in the same group nomatter what good things u have done.To tell u the truth i think someone should make the news show just what snowmobilers have done[GOOD] so that the good guys can have a class of there own

To be fair, the print media often shows a positive side to snowmobiling. THey'll have stories about clubs raising money for charaties, about the opening of a new trail, about people getting out and enjoying themselves. It seems to be the televised media that has to search for something bad to say about everything.

Unfourtunately it's that type of reporting that gets ratings. Sad, really.

The media sucks. Cory is right on, who besides us snowmobilers would care about a poker run anywhere? Through a bunch of drunken A-holes into the mix and now they've got themselves a story. I refuse to watch the news, there is nothing on there that isn't depressing or negative. You don't get the story, you get there spin.

In the words of Don Henley " Give the people what they want, give them dirty laundry ". Unfortunately, it sounds like they found a few morons who need to be taken out back and " cleaned up a bit ".

Ok....I know that getting loaded and hopin on the sled is really messed.....but can you honestly say you have never had one or two and hopped on your sled or ATV or your truck...some of you prolly can but not all....ive seen family and friends ride there sleds of in the private trails just fine with booze....you just gotta know your limit...Im guilty of having a few and sleddin to a friends house...then don't touch it...i know my limit...its the guys that drink all day and ride OFSC and stuff..if your ridin private trails goin slow there's nothin wrong with it....we are guilty of it...just my 2 cents...but the orginal post with those idiots all loaded that what gives snowmobiling a bad name!! SWRules

I honestly think times have changed and there far less people riding/driving drunk, I used to see groups trailside having cold ones , now it's a rarity , at pit stops I see alot more people drinking cokes or 1 or 2 beers , maybe it is just my observation , but even the attitude about drinking and riding has changed for the better.

That story really hits close to home for me because i ride those same trails and lake that she was killed on, she was killed during a festival called tip up town and it used to be about ice fishing but has turned into a big drunk fest. the last time i went, some guy got his head cut off when he got nailed by another sled going around 90, both dead for what??

ever notice that when a town gets hit by a tornado,,,they find the stupidest person in the town to put on tv,,,,, usually have 2 teeth and an iq of a 6 year old,,,,

Originally posted by spikegary@Mar 5 2004, 11:47 AM
Gotta' hate the riders more than the show-the show is just the medium and Bad News Sells. We had one 2 seasons ago on a local station with a hidden camera, talking to some piece of trailer trash (Trailertrash: not you, no insult intended) in a bar and her saying how she drives better after a few-no matter what you do, you can't stamp out ignorance. Just try to get the word out about the good side-another words, the 99%.
:withstupid:

Yep, we can blame the media for a lot of things, but the media certainly didn't tell those mental midgits to go get loaded and jump on their machines.

There's always losers in every crowd.... :lookaround:

It's so easy to blame alcohol if somebody's had a few. Who or what do you blame when nobody's been drinking?

Accidents happen, and it's too easy to blame it on alcohol and think that it could never happen to you because you don't drink. But guess what? It's not always alcohols fault.

In this same bunch of TV shows that evening they said that the death total this year in North America ( which includes Canada) on snowmobiles was 64% booze related and speed was 36%. The trouble is these insurance companies base all our insurances on these percentages and thus we all get charged the higher rates because they consider all of us high risks to insure. Not sure in Canada but here in the States, when someone kills someone in a car, or other vehicle, they hold all accountable from the guy or girl who served them the booze , to the owner of the bar or house and right on down the line.Over here you have seen a very dramatic decrease in house parties, school parties and any other gatherings where booze is served because now the courts are holding ALL accountable now. Myself and the guys I ride with will have a beer or drink to, but only after the sleds are parked for the nite. I also agree that the media is much to blame but for sure they will never go away.

i really think that is comes down to the persons state of mine,i have been out with people that have a beer or two, but it is the [stupid, sorry but that is the only word that decribes it] people that go WAY overboard are the ones that don't know what the words NO and DOING THE RIGHT THING really mean. Come on these machines are easy to get hurt on not drinking, add a few beers and it is ten times as bad. So to the people that do brink please have some respect for the rest of us out there that are out there for the FUN and don't drive, but that is just my 2cents

Originally posted by NewfieBullet@Mar 6 2004, 07:29 AM
Accidents happen, and it's too easy to blame it on alcohol and think that it could never happen to you because you don't drink. But guess what? It's not always alcohols fault.
I don't agree with your post. The point is, when someone drinks, their reflexes are slower, even minutely and their judgement is off. A person just should not ride after drinking. It's that simple. I hate to be the one that the drinker hits when they misjudge a corner.

I personally do not drink alcohol when I need to drive/sled/drive the boat, whatever. I don't see what the need is to have alcohol. Have it afterwards. I really do think that people put too much importance on drinking.

I've been first on the scene of an accident involving alcohol. The guy hit another car, his mini-van rolled throwing him half-way out the window. The van then rolled on top of him. It was awful seeing him lie there with blood pouring out of his ears and mouth. I'll never forget that sight as long as I live.

Renee

i totally agree with Flower Picker.

Originally posted by flower picker@Mar 6 2004, 06:39 PM
.

I've been first on the scene of an accident involving alcohol. The guy hit another car, his mini-van rolled throwing him half-way out the window. The van then rolled on top of him. It was awful seeing him lie there with blood pouring out of his ears and mouth. I'll never forget that sight as long as I live.

Renee
Would it have been any less awful a sight if there had been no alcohol involved.

Nobody is argueing that alcohol can't contribute to an accident, but you make it sound like it's a given that you'll have an accident if you drink, and that you'll never have one if you don't. That's simply not true.
The point is, when someone drinks, their reflexes are slower, even minutely and their judgement is off.
If I have a bad nights sleep, I didn't drink enough coffee, or I've put too many miles on that day my reflexes are surely slower, and my judgement maybe off. Does that mean that I shouldn't have been riding?

All I'm saying is that it's no so clear cut as you make it out to be. There are acceptable levels of alcohol that one can consume and still safely drive.

Uh oh, this thread could get ugly. *Grabs popcorn*

People are gonna drink and drive every motor vehicle out there, the snowmobile companies create enough revenue as to not worry about being shut down...the trails on the other hand...

The fact that anyone would even try and argue on behalf of those that insist on drinking while riding is absolutely appalling. To try and say, well yes there was an accident, and yes the driver was drinking, but maybe the alcohol wasn't the contributing factor is the most arrogant and ignorant thing I've ever heard....

Why do some have to associate drinking with every activity they do???

There is a place you can turn, AA is always looking for new faces.

I don't understand why people have to be so extremist. Why is it so difficult to believe that it's possible to have an accident after having a beer, without it being the beers fault? Why can't anyone answer the question about other reasons for diminished capacities?

Better yet. Say the anti-alcohol nazi's win. Everyone who would ever consider having a beer is chastized, and banished, not allowed to operate a motor vehicle. Accidents still occur, and a new scapegoat must be found. Speed I guess. In 10 years we'll be here arguing and people will be saying that to exceed the speed limit, by no matter how much, is risky and dangerous, and should never be allowed.

Am I arguing in favour of drinking and driving? No, I'm not. But I am a realist. I know that on a given friday night 80% of the people on the trail, at least, have consumed some alcohol. Yet an accident is a rare thing. I really think you're blowing things out of proportion.

Most of all I just really have trouble understanding how people can see the world in such black and white terms.
but maybe the alcohol wasn't the contributing factor is the most arrogant and ignorant thing I've ever heard.... I guess you haven't heard many arrogant or ignorant things.

Originally posted by NewfieBullet@Mar 6 2004, 10:41 PM
.....not allowed to operate a motor vehicle.....

Well you got one thing right....

This is definitely one area where I have to disagree with you. The RX-1.... well I see your point.

I enjoy a beer as much as the next guy, perhaps more than the next guy. But, drinking before or while riding a snowmobile, or any motor vehicle for that matter is in extreme disregard for anyone else who might cross your path. True, accidents happen for a lot of other reasons, and even if the person might have had a beer or two, that might not have been the sole reason for his lapse of judgement. I won't (and neither will most) give them the benefit of a doubt. Thankfully, the police feel the same way.

And you're right - accidents certainly do occur because of other reasons, not involving alcohol. In those cases, it was another source of stupidity that was to blame. I personally prefer to use the term 'collision' rather than 'accident' because accident implies that it was beyond anyone's control. Fact of the matter is that an 'accident' is always someone's fault. So why contribute to the problem by adding alcohol into the mix?

80% of the people out on a Friday night have consumed alcohol??? I don't know where you ride - but I assure you NONE of the people I ride with drink and ride. I'm sure there's lots of people on this forum who feel the same. I think (and I hope) 80% is a gross exaggeration.

The thing that I don't understand is why people have to mix alcohol with riding?? I am serious about my AA comment - the only reason I can think of that a person feels compelled to drink while they ride is if they have an alcohol problem. Surely us grown adults know better - don't we???

I know this subject gets beat to death every time it comes up. I find it hard to believe that in 2004 people are still defending a 'few beers' out on the trail....

In all honesty I don't know anyone that drinks that won't have a few beer when they're out riding. With the number of people I see that consume rather large amounts of alcohol and still make it back to their cabin safely, I have a hard time getting on my high horse about someone having a couple of beer.

As I said, no one is trying to encourage anyone to go drink and drive. But just because someone does doesn't automatically make them a risk. A sensible driver who knows what he's doing will still be less of a risk after a couple of beer then some yahoo trying to catch air off of every rise. Yet from what I can tell here, if the yahoo were to slam into somebody who was stopped at an intersection, or who was on his own side of the trail, you would blame the guy who had had a beer, and not the yahoo. To me that's just silly.

Originally posted by NewfieBullet@Mar 7 2004, 12:01 AM
...As I said, no one is trying to encourage anyone to go drink and drive. But just because someone does doesn't automatically make them a risk. A sensible driver who knows what he's doing will still be less of a risk after a couple of beer then some yahoo trying to catch air off of every rise. Yet from what I can tell here, if the yahoo were to slam into somebody who was stopped at an intersection, or who was on his own side of the trail, you would blame the guy who had had a beer, and not the yahoo. To me that's just silly....
If your point here is that there's more than just drunken idiots out on the trail, I'd have to agree. 'Yahoo's' come in all different flavours. I'm just getting started here....

But, any sensible person would have to agree that drinking doesn't help to promote safe trails. And, getting back to the point of this thread, it sure doesn't help to make our image as snowmobiles look any better to the general public.

Of course statistics do indicate that a person who has consumed alcohol is a bigger risk than someone who has not. To compare a drunken rider to someone trying to 'catch air' isn't really a fair comparison. Now consider that the drunk one is the guy catching air.... Yikes.

Ok, enough ranting.

There's no where to ride now anyways, drunk or sober. :cussing:

Originally posted by NewfieBullet@Mar 6 2004, 11:01 PM
But just because someone does doesn't automatically make them a risk.
Sorry, but it does. There is no argument that can be made that says the risk of an accident (collision, incident or whatever it might be called), doesn't change with the consumption of any alcohol.
Tell me anywhere I can look to substantiate what you're saying.

Again all- 64% of all the snowmobile deaths were attributed to alcohol, the other 36% were due to reckless driving and speeding on the trails and lakes. When non-sledders watch these national TV programs they class all of us as drunken and reckless maniacs out running into each other and killing ourselves doing it!!! That is the MAIN reason EVERYONES insurance rates are going skyhigh!! As I have seen others posting about the over abundance of OPP and trail wardens this year on the trails, myself I think they are there for a good reason and I have no problem with them whatsoever. Just think if they weren't out at all times of the day and night , what would the trails be like then?? I cannot agree that everyones drinking whenever they're riding as on our trip in February we were off the trails each night by 8 or so.We would go down to the restaurant to eat and usually it was in the motel/hotel or lodge. There also was a bar/lounge in the same area and just about everytime, the bar only had a couple people at it and in 1 instance the bar had closed for the evening at 9 as there was no one there!!! These places were packed with sleds also. As I said before-the guys I ride with have a beer or so AFTER our sleds are parked for the night.The last thing I want to do is get all fired up and run into and hurt or kill one of my friends and for sure not an innocent person out for a leisurely ride on their sled.Like others have said, theres enough other ways to get in an accident without booze being a contributing factor. Rest my Case!!

Originally posted by doonut@Mar 5 2004, 03:38 PM
In the words of Don Henley " Give the people what they want, give them dirty laundry ". Unfortunately, it sounds like they found a few morons who need to be taken out back and " cleaned up a bit ".
Good observation Doonut.
This is why the words of Marvin Gaye have never been more true...
" Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear."
(maybe he knew of things to come when he wrote this in the 70's)

Originally posted by NewfieBullet@Mar 6 2004, 06:07 PM
Would it have been any less awful a sight if there had been no alcohol involved.

Nobody is argueing that alcohol can't contribute to an accident, but you make it sound like it's a given that you'll have an accident if you drink, and that you'll never have one if you don't. That's simply not true.

If I have a bad nights sleep, I didn't drink enough coffee, or I've put too many miles on that day my reflexes are surely slower, and my judgement maybe off. Does that mean that I shouldn't have been riding?

All I'm saying is that it's no so clear cut as you make it out to be. There are acceptable levels of alcohol that one can consume and still safely drive.
I guess common sense just isn't very common to you, or else perhaps you just like to be argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.

Of course, common sense would dictate that if that accident didn't have alcohol involved, it would have been just as disturbing, HOWEVER, it did involve alcohol and my point was that it is very likely that it would have been avoided if he hadn't been drinking. It was a senseless accident.

In my opinion, anything that inhibits your ability to react quickly while snowmobiling can make for a dangerous situation and it is perhaps best to avoid snowmobiling for that day/night. What's the sense in killing/hurting yourself? Life is more important than a day of riding.

But this is common sense too..... :rolleyes:

Renee

Life is more important than a day of riding.
If you want to avoid all risk then I guess you'll have to stay home on the couch. Face it; having fun is risky. You have to calculate how much risk is safe.

And you're avoiding the issue. It's way to easy to simply say "drinking and driving is bad, and nobody should do it ever". Who can argue with that?
Someone else might say "driving fast is bad, and no one should do it ever". What makes what you say common sense, and what they say silly or unimportant?

Of course alcohol may add to the level of risk, but it's still possible to be below the level of acceptable risk. Even our Draconian laws see this, and there is a legal limit, below which you are allowed to ride. Why, according to you, is even one drink unacceptable?

And please answer this.
Driver A has had a couple of beer with lunch, and then one late afternoon. Say 3 beer over a 5 hour period of riding.
Driver B has not had any alcohol but is trying to show off for some friends on a competitive brand, and is going especially fast through some twisties. He goes a little wide around a blind right hand turn and connects with Driver A, who was driving a a sensible pace on his side of the trail.
Who's at fault?

I still think they were drunk greenies in snowmobile suits :cussing:
After reading all these post I came to the conclusion you are all right. Its not a perfect world and there are no perfect anwsers.

Originally posted by konkinj@Mar 7 2004, 05:45 AM
Sorry, but it does. There is no argument that can be made that says the risk of an accident (collision, incident or whatever it might be called), doesn't change with the consumption of any alcohol.
Tell me anywhere I can look to substantiate what you're saying.
Just being on the trail or road makes you a risk. But there are acceptable levels of risk, and our traffic and criminal laws back this up. I can&#39;t tell you where to look, but the laws in most provinces state that you can safely go on your way if you blow < .05, and that you won&#39;t be charged for drinking and driving unless you blow a .08. As far as I&#39;m concerned, that means that the Government has agreed that you are within the level of acceptable risk after a couple of beers.