I may be buying a truck this summer, and was thinking about looking at a diesel. Give me the info..fuel mileage, power etc. It would be a 99 at the newest I think, but hopefully a little older (I don't want to pay for it till I'm 40).

And don't start fighting! Or else! Snow Monkey adn mxz7 will bring down the thunder! http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sly.gif

ford and dodge are the only decent diesels till lately, the new gm is still to be proven. fuel mileage will be about 20 with 3.73 gears, power unrestricted and same mileage it seems no matter what you pull.

The cummins desiel in the dodge is the best desiel put in a pickup truck to date. *In 2003 the dodge ram HD versions will have a H.O. cummins making 305 hp and a lot of torque. *

I have drivin a cummins 6 speed on a few ocaisions and it is a awsome truck with a awsome feeling...

I would not touch a gm because of isuzu desiels. *If you wanted a import you would buy a import.

http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/withstupid.gif


Rocketman, IMO, get a Dodge/Cummins. *Especially if you plan on buying 99 or older. *Chevy diesels really dont get the job done (I'm not bashing, just speaking from experience) Ford Powerstrokes are nice, but expensive, and have a strange "problem"(dont get me started on cakle). *So... the Dodge/Cummins seems to be the best for the $$$$. *If you buy an early 98 or older Dodge(12 valve engine), you can VERY easily (and cheaply) get more power.

Go for a Dodge

http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/withstupid.gif The cummins rocks. We love ours. Permafrost knows the particulars Im sure he will post them. All I can say is I LOVE driving it. http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif If you get that diesel Rocket then you and Snowmonkey could totally drive out here to hook up no Prob. http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Get the Power stroke! *A business aqaintance of mine owns a gravel quary and provides Diesel pick ups for his foreman. *He lets them decide on the make but it must be diesel because he has a huge underground tank of diesel fuel. *We had this exact discussion a year or so back about what I should buy and here is his comments: *The Ford and Chevy trucks are bullet proof, *the Ford and Dodge (cummins) have the most powerful engines. *The chevys couldn't drive thru a wet paper bag and The dodges never leave the dealers service department. *He claimes that they have horrible drive trains but the engines are rock solid, but the truck falls apart around it. *For his money, he is now ordering only fords. *I am only repeating what I was told. *Keep in mind, you may not use your truck like they do, but it tells me alot. I know what one will stand the test of time.

Mighty, I have heard some of the same things. *Rocketman, if I were you and I were getting a Dodge, get a manual trans. *The manuals they put in those older (and newer) Cummins powered trucks are indestructible (sp?). *I know that for a fact. *I have heard lots of horror stories about the Dodge auto tranny, i.e. *I know a guy that has a Dodge/Cummins, doen't have any power enhancements, never hauls anything too huge, and has gone through 4 transmissions in three years. *Maybe he just has bad luck, who knows. *But for what it's worth.....

Here's another recommendation for the Dodge/Cummins combo. *I get 23.5 mpg with my truck, which has the 3.54 axle. *Mine is only a 4x2 though, so I don't use it when the roads get slick. I must agree with Winterpark. *Get the stick. *Dodge automatics leave alot to be desired. *Those that do hold up, do excellent. *Those that don't, will leave you wanting to drive it off a cliff. *I have a 99 Dodge with the Cummins engine. *It now has 88K on the odometer, and has been pretty much bulletproof. *My truck is also as simply spec'd out as possible. *No power junk, no automatic, no carpet (rubber mat instead). *My only unscheduled repair to date has been an A/C compressor. *I still have the original tires, brakes, and clutch. *Some NV4500 manuals have had issues with the 5th gear nut backing out. *This is more of an irritation than a problem. *If this happens, it can be repaired without removing the tranny, and does not damage the tranny if the nut holding 5th gear in place does back out. *The way to avoid the problem entirely is to not use 5th gear below 50mph while towing.

If you get the Dodge cummins get the 6 speed manual. *Its feels like a ferrari. *Its Quick. *But the auto is totally gutless. *

Out of all the desiel engine the cummins is the longest lasting and most reliable. *It will outlast a ford powerstroke and a chevy duramax. *

THe dodge automatics are not that bad as far as durability goes. *If you look at the numbers chevy and ford are just as bad in the truck department. *Dodge cars have crap trannys same with there mini vans but there trucks are awsome. *I had a durango go 125000km with no trouble, My ram is at 20000 with no trouble and my friends old slant 6 is at 700000 thousand with no trouble just 2 altenators. *

THe ultimate pickup will be the 2003 Ram with the cummins or 5.7 hemi. *

That truck has a %500 stiffer frame and rides much more solid then the old ram. *THe 5.7 hemi puts out 345hp and i think about 360Lb torque. The cummins H.O is 305hp. *

I got the 1500 ram and it out handles every truck i owned. *Belive it or not this truck is fun to drive. *It is the flattest cornering full sized pick up on the market. *THe 4 wheel disk brakes also are great.

As for the manual trannys. *Dodge ownes the company that makes them for Chevy and possibly ford. *THis company also makes the transfer cases for chevy and ford. *I beilive this chrysler owned company is called NEW VENTURE. *I may be wrong.

Machzzzz1, you are correct. *Dodge uses the New Venture (NV) transmissions in their diesel trucks. *5 speed is the NV4500, and 6 speed is the NV5600, both excellent transmissions. *Chevy used the NV4500 for a while in their diesels, I dont know if they still do. *Ford uses ZF trannys. *(ZF also makes oem for BMW I believe)

I just checked the New Venture website http://www.newventuregear.com/ It's a joint venture between Chrysler & GM. I knew it was New Process Gear Division of Chrysler & GM's manual transmission facilities @ Muncie, IN. I didn't realize the 2 companies were still involved with the ownership of NV.

GM has used their transfer cases since the NP 203 & 205 of the 70s & 80s.

I had read a year or so ago, that GM was going to be sourcing some transfer cases from Borg Warner which Ford has used in their full size trucks since the early 80s. No word which truck or SUV this B W case was going into.

The current trucks we're building in Oshawa use NV cases. The rear axle in the Quadrasteer is a Dana 60 with an electrically operated rack & pinion mounted to it. More nonsense for the pavement offroader http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sleepy.gif

My step-dad has a 1-ton dually Dodge. *It's a '94, I think. *The last year they made 'em with a flat grille, anyway, before going to the anteater style. *Anyhow, it's a manual tranny, and he said when he bought it (last year) he expected the tranny to go because he new that they were junk. *He had mentioned to me that Dodge changed transmissions to newer ones were better. *Well, the tranny went in January, so he replaced it with whatever newer one they put in the trucks now. *So if you're getting an older one, do the research and make sure it's got the right trans. Remember, if someone sold it, they sold it for a REASON.

Hey rocketman my money is on a 97 to 98 2500 RAM. In 98.5 they changed to the 24 valve with the teeny non oil lubricated VP44 injection pump. The reliability of this pump is questionable. The 24 valve trucks are computer controlled, dont get as good fuel milage and are alot more exspensive to BOMB. *I also prefer the club cab over the quadcab for chassis rigidity. *My friend has already had problems with both quadcab doors on his 99.

The automatic transmisson in the rams is a great tranny. *The 727 has been around for years and was in alot of muscle cars.
The problem is that the diesel revs are too low and it doesnt build up enough line pressue and causes slippage in the tranny. This problem can be solved by two ways. *Keep rpms above 1500,OD off in the city. The other way costs but is worth it , get a new valve body and TC 91%. *The auto Rams are way faster off the line then any manual, as the manuals lose turbo boost pressure between each shift. Wolfman is right if you get a manual you will need to get the 5th gear nut dealt with sooner or later, but it is a rather painless fix.

One thing to be concerned about with the 12 valve motors is the dowel pin in the timing case cover it has been know to drop in to the gears and cause horrendous damage. There is a fix for this. *I have access to the Jig. IT is a 2-3 hour fix .

My uncle hauls cars with a 1 ton dodge ram. He just had to replace his auto tranny for the first time at 745,000kms. Seems kinda resonable to me.

For bombing nothing beats a 12v for ease and less cost. Its scary what 350 bucks will do to it.
If you want to bomb a 24v than i would suggest to stay away from the 6 speed HO and get a 5spd. *The ECM in the 6spd will override codes from the EZ comp.TDR (http://www.tdr1.com)
ram info (www.dodgeram.org)

a couple good links full of info

A friend of mine with the last of the old style also lost that dowel pin. Other than that I haven't heard of any problems with his truck. He's not the easiest on vehicles either *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

dodge, tranny which ever you want,4 trannys in 3 years sounds like a problem with service,as they do not put new trannys in after problems just fix.if you do buy an auto trans and have problems call B-D and you'll have no more.however my first diesel was an auto 97 2500 it is still going with 110,000 miles now.264hp,675 lbs torque@ rw(stock was 135 hp and 353 lbs @rw) with v-b mods only,sold my 6 spd which was an 01 3500,now have another 2500 '02 auto 6,000 miles 280 hp 670 lbs @ rw only 6,000 miles so far same v-b mods as my 97.moral here the dodge tranny can handle the power of a stock diesel but with mods you will push the envelope,but it can be done.I prefer the 24 v now that the aftermarket has the power upgrades to match the older 12v,and they can be on/off ,if you are just running the box(I use the power edge comp)

Permafrost. *I dont agree with the auto is faster then manual comment. *My and my friend have raced the 6 speed and the auto and its night and day. *The 6 speed pulls like crasy and the auto feels gutless. *Both have torque galore but the 6 speed just seems to be able to keep the revs right where the desiel and turbo want them to be and the pull is awsome. *

One other reason i would not buy a chevy is because of there poor posi trac system. * When one tire spins faster then 100rpm it engages the other tire and locks the system. *Unfortunatly this is to much strain for the little teeth and it snaps the whole system leaving you with a open diff. *

Dodge uses a clutch system that is bullet proof. *Clutches might need changing after 200000km though.

Thats a good point Dooman. The power upgrades on the 24v can be turned on and off when needed. *Some of them have 10 different power settings. From someone who owned both which do you think is faster off the line auto or manual?

Machzzzz1 when you raced did you have OD off. It is a night and day difference. I have crushed many manuals off the lights. *No matter what, when you shift the manual you lose boost pressure. The auto is seamless . The ratio in the 6 speed makes first and second almost worthless they are so short. My buddy starts in third with his 6spd Ho even when towing a massive trailer.

The VP44 injection pump is not an unreliable pump. *They were also used extensively in the "B" model engines on and off. *They have also seen duty for over 20 years in VW diesel applications. *The pump is quite robust. *You do NOT run them dry trying to prime the system. *Pay attention to the instructions in the manual for priming the system after a filter change, and yer good to go. *If you get a leak somewhere in the fuel system that causes it to lose prime. *Then this should be taken care of immediately. *Just one of those matters of fixing a $10 problem before it balloons into a $1000 problem.

Most people that I know of that buy diesels, buy them for the long haul. *The way to get there is to take proper care of 'em.

I have an auto again,which do you think I would rather have in a race *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif .I have raced my old 97 auto with my 01 6 spd and no matter what the auto beat me every time period the stick had more hp and torque but every time I shifted he would pull me a lil bit it was like 2-3 trucks by the time we hit 100 mph.I did like the 6 spd for towing(my 30 ft. camper ,and 20 foot haulmark enclosed snowmobile trailer (steel), it would excelerate faster in those conditions. I don't tow all the time,that is when the auto shines you said it best you loose 10 lbs of boost every shift you have to build back up it is then when you notice the auto pulling away.as far as feeling faster manuals have always felt faster but the autos are quicker ,track proven.I will agree with permafrost on the bombed ETH (6spd. H.O.) don't do it your asking for problems the ETC( 5 spd.) engine is much more suitable for bombing.I have been messing with these cummins dodges since early 90 and have learned the hard way and spent big $$$ modding them I know what works and what don't we had a truck that we pulled with a 89 with a 97 12 v putting out 440 hp and over 1000 lbs of torque @ the rear wheels and yes it was an auto,but it was a good B-D trans.pic of my new 02 sitting in front of my near 4 acre site in Irons mich.

something else I might add ,in case you did not know, permafrost the new trucks are programed to lock up the converter after drive then hit OD and lock-up again this is done by the ecm and it makes a big differance.

The truck auto i drove was a 2001 2500 quad cab with auto and cummins.

I didnt have the o/d off but i still find it hard to belive that the auto is faster. *The 6 speed sucks you to your seat so hard you cant even move your neck. *The auto just seems to roll of. *

Ill give you guys the benifite of the dought and maybe the truck i drove had a bad engine or somthing wrong. *But the engine sounded good so I dont think so. *

But since you guys drive them all the time i will say your right.

Alot of the auto tranny failure is caused by excessive idling in park.The pump doesn't draw in park resulting in very poor fluid
transfer.If you are going to idle your auto for a prolonged period,slip it into neutrel and apply the park brake.And like permofrost said leave the o/d off in the city and this goes for diesel and gas auto applications.I'm just waiting to see one of the 03 ram diesels in person before making my decision on what to buy as i'll still be able to get the good looking ram in the older body work if i don't like the 03 layout http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (z800rtx @ April 23, 2002, 9:11pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Alot of the auto tranny failure is caused by excessive idling in park.The pump doesn&#39;t draw in park resulting in very poor fluid
transfer.If you are going to idle your auto for a prolonged period,slip it into neutrel and apply the park brake.And like permofrost said leave the o/d off in the city and this goes for diesel and gas auto applications.I&#39;m just waiting to see one of the 03 ram diesels in person before making my decision on what to buy as i&#39;ll still be able to get the good looking ram in the older body work if i don&#39;t like the 03 layout http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/b][/quote]
Look at the &#39;02 1/2 tons. *The bodies will be the same, with the only variations accounting for the duallie models. *Hopefully they&#39;ll ditch those ugly white ricer looking guages in the instrument cluster.

There is a regular poster in the Dodge truck newsgroup that makes a living on automatic tranny repair. *According to him, the problem lies with the OD units in the trannies. *As with the other makers, the OD&#39;s are simply stuffed in the tail end of the transmission. *They do not get enough lube, especailly during periods where the driver is lugging the engine in OD. *Diesels exasperate this problem with the high torque at low RPM. *Fluid pressures are too low, and the design is set up to insure that no slipping occurs ahead of transmission lubrication.

Since there isn&#39;t going to be any Allison option for the Dodge, they will be releasing the 48RE automatic during the 03 model year - basically another evolution of the same tranny as is now used.

The layout i&#39;m referring to is how the engine is situated under
the hood and how the corporate live axles will look as apparently they aren&#39;t using dana anymore http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif I keep my trucks between 6-8 years normally so i want to make sure it&#39;s one i will like because if i don&#39;t like it i can still get the old body style in a leftover 02.

Dodge has the best rear end in any truck. *There axles are solid. *Some used dana i think but even the regular ones are stronger then anything ford or chevy can whip up.

Permafrost: *My best friend works at chrysler. *I got him to ask around.

Everyone says the 6 speed or 5 speed manual will dust the automatic desil in a race. *Its not even a race. *I have to agree with them since i have driven both. *I have driven the 6 speed first and then a automatic about a week later. *I was honestly let down. *The 6 speed sucked you to your seat so hard that it was just awsome.

I also told him about how you guys say that you lose to much boost between shifts. *He told me that the 6 speed gears are closer together and that it will hold the boost compaired to the auto that looses a lot of rpm when it upshifts to the next gear.

I dont have any proof of this but im so sure a 6 speed would beat a auto that if i owned one and a guy with a auto wanted to race me for 1000.00 i would take him on.

I&#39;ll take the automatic.That shifting gets old.

I have owned both,I must be getting lazy,no more sticks for me.

About axles, I think as long as it&#39;s a full floater you shouldn&#39;t have problems. Yes, the Chevy type with the C clips isn&#39;t the greatest if you break an axle. *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

The axles i&#39;m taking about are a joint venture between dodge and gm using the same axles on there larger applications
ie a dana 60 or larger.I agree with machzz1 about dodge having some stout axles of there own as the 9 1/4 on my 1500
is a fairly strong unit especially when coupled with the dana 44
up front.I just hope we don&#39;t start seeing any spool type diffs
on the front end of dodges in the future.

machzzzz1 ,were did your buddys get the info about the diesel autos being slower? as some know I myself work for chrysler,which is nothing .I get my info from running these trucks and bombing them,I have attended 6 TDR events through out the country and the autos are faster down the strip(at these events there are drag races and chassis dynos).the autos do not loose many rpm&#39;s, if any, they have a stall speed about 2300 rpm&#39;s that they stay at till it locks the converter at about 50 mph.my dad started truck pulls while I was in my late teens that is when my love for the dodge cummins became, he had the 89 sold it in 98.I might add I will be glad to race as well *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif .

the dana rear axle has been giving the dodge boys nothing but trouble and those are words from a dodge dealer that shares the same parents i do.

z800rtx: I think your term "spool" is incorrect. A spool type diff has no moving parts or differential action. The left & right axles are "locked" together & turn at the same speed whether going straight or around a corner. There are no spider gears. I have heard the GM limited slip Gov-Lock being called a cuckoo clock diff though *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Who makes this diff for GM? Even though GM still calls their limited slips Posi-Trac, it&#39;s not the same as was used in the 70s.

The spool type i am referring to rev is the front diff in gm
independent front ends.To the best my my knowledge there
is nothing that can be done to these in the way of making it
into a locking and/or a posi style diff.I am a fan of solid live front axles in trucks as the articulation is better off-road and
with a air-locker installed you have a fully locked diff at the touch of a switch plus you get the added bonus of a onboard
air compressor.As for those dana&#39;s you are referring to paul they are a pain in the arse.They started using them in the new style grand cherokee back in 99.The prob i think is the use of aluminum and cast parts together as those things are far from quiet.

Correct me if I&#39;m wrong, but I could swear that Ford&#39;s use Dana&#39;s in their 3/4 and heavier duty trucks. Also, Isn&#39;t GM still using their 14-bolt in the HD trucks? I&#39;ve owned all three brands, and none of them are flawless (my Dodge was in the shop the most). It seems to me if you want a bullet proof truck, to beat on and use like a TRUCK, you need to buy your brand of choice and Peterson&#39;s FWOR mag. and buy all the PROVEN aftermarket stuff you can. And when they tell you it&#39;s unbreakable......LAUGH IN THEIR FACE.

Yes, Ford uses Dana axles on their HD trucks. *They are, however, lighter duty than the ones that Dodge specs for the 2500 and 3500 Rams. *Ford uses a Dana 60 axle, while Dodge uses the Dana 70 hybrid axle - a Dana 80 differential with Dana 70 axles all in the 70 housing.