This is a release from SuperTrax - Mark Lester

Okay, it’s no secret. Yamaha has taken a lot of hits from Supertrax for more than a few seasons. We’ve been outspoken about ride quality (or the lack thereof). We were unimpressed with 4-stroke handling. What we haven’t been critical of is quality, value and innovation. So what gives for 2005? Are we going to deck the big Y for these issues again?

Nope, in fact you might want to reset your watch, notch your calendar, make a note in your diary or something significant today which will remind you of this moment. I did. I just jumped off the new Yamaha Vector and RX-1 after wringing out the sleds on a variety of trails and lakes. I’m impressed. Naw, that’s not good enough. I’m trying to find my socks - they’ve been blown off.

I should have known I was in for a surprise. C.J. had attended the ‘05 Sneak Peek in Minocqua, Wisconsin two weeks ago and reported handling improvements and mumbled something about good suspension on the ‘05 Yammers. We didn’t buy it and instead suggested he seek counseling.

The 2005 RS Vector
First, the RS Vector. The new 973cc, 120 HP triple with twin cams and four valves is a lighter package than the RX-1. As light as the Viper ER. The weight saving in the engine room is 30 pounds alone. This trimming combined with a reconfigured A-frame set-up which effectively raises the roll-center of the chassis about three inches makes the Vector feel light. That’s not a mis-print. I used the word light and 4-stroke in the same paragraph. I’m still dizzy.

Lighter weight and vastly improved turn-in and mid-turn stability of the Vector wouldn’t make a story if the next chapter was the status quo for Yamaha. Let’s talk rear suspension. The Vector’s all-new rear skid delivers the kind of ride 2005 snowmobiles are supposed to. It’s plush, it feels almost bottom-less and it throws in a nice bonus - weight transfer. Throttle wheelies and precisely timed blips off trail crests immediately lift the sled’s nose and produce a satisfying surge in your gut. After an hour in the saddle the sled never hurt me - not once - on mogul laden trails, square edged bumps and cement-like slush tracks at 100 MPH. I can’t believe it.

The 2005 RX-1's
Mono-Shock Rear Suspension
The RX-1 comes with a new rear skid (and a ton of other new stuff for ‘05 which shed another 30 pounds from the sport’s only four cylinder 4-stroke) that just might rewrite the rules on rear suspension. This single, coil over shock unit works the damper from both ends to produce what I can best describe as M-10-like sensations. However, this is not a falling rate design. Ad in the trick, left ankle mounted shock compression clicker control and you’ve got an adjust-on-the-fly package that doesn’t just improve the RX-1 for ‘05, it re-invents the sled. I ended up at five clicks off full soft (there’s twenty available) and could run a mile long stretch of trail strewn with stutters and evenly spaced moguls at over 80 per - sitting down, relaxed. Yes, this is a report on Yamaha snowmobiles.

In conclusion - because we don’t want to give away too much here until we give you the total skinny in the September issue of Supertrax - you better recalibrate your preconceived notions about Yamaha handling, weight and most importantly, ride quality.

They are about to change.

----------
So, that's another article.........Yamaha is improving the line-up and fixing the complaints from customers. Sounds like it's time to visit your Yamaha Dealer
!!!

Super Trax can have my 2stroke when they pry it from my cold dead hands.

O.K., but you might find that the benefits are now outweighing the drawbacks on the 4-strokes.......

Glad to see YAMAHA step up to the plate on 4stroke sleds!!! Just a SKI DOO has done with the SDI!!! Both these engines meet 2006 emissions!!! :D

They forgot to say how much alcohol was involved during the ride. Just Kidding :D folks! I guess we'll have to plop our butts on a Yamaha and give them their chance like any other sled.

Maybe you should wait for real world reports about how the new rear suspension works.

THe new rear SKIDs will certainly be a breath of fresh for Yammi that is long overdue.

Originally posted by permafrost@May 19 2004, 09:22 AM
THe new rear SKIDs will certainly be a breath of fresh for Yammi that is long overdue.
That's probably what sledders said in '88 when 'doo intro'd the Monoshock rear skid in the Mach 1. :tongue: :D

Or when they actually put suspensions in sleds and moved from a bulldozer track to a rubber track. You guys are really old! :D

I read one thread on here from a hard-core 2-stroker-got a full snow test in-he raved about the new suspension. I think MightyRx-1 posted it.

Wonder how Cat and Poo are doing getting to the 06 standards. Anyone heard what they're plan is? Glad Yammie and Doo are already there!

Poo licensed the SDI from Doo I believe. Cat will almost certainly go the 4 stroke route. Hopefully with engines designed specifically for the job like the new Yammi triple.

they will all pull something out of the bag,,,, I thought the t660 turbo was already 2006 ready,,,, I also thought fusion brought something to the table like sdi that was supposed to make it a lot cleaner,,,

I think I'll wait a few years before considering a Yamaha 4-stoke. Hopefully they'll get all the bugs worked out in the next few years. Until then I'll stick with my Yamaha 2-stroke.

Originally posted by puree@May 21 2004, 10:03 AM
I thought the t660 turbo was already 2006 ready,,,, I also thought fusion brought something to the table like sdi that was supposed to make it a lot cleaner,,,
the t660 is 2006 compliant and probably compliant to 2010. the Fusion missed the 2006 compliancy bar. SDI 600 is 2010 and the MachZ is 2006.

Originally posted by paul yarek@May 21 2004, 08:36 PM
the t660 is 2006 compliant and probably compliant to 2010. the Fusion missed the 2006 compliancy bar. SDI 600 is 2010 and the MachZ is 2006.
well cat is already there,,, and I would bet poo is there next year,,, so looks like all the manufacturers will be ok,,,,

Originally posted by QCRider@May 21 2004, 09:42 AM
Poo licensed the SDI from Doo I believe.
Now there's a rumour I hadn't heard.

The T660 is compliant-don't think that means the rest of AC's stable is.......

Originally posted by revrnd@May 22 2004, 07:58 PM
Now there's a rumour I hadn't heard.
i second that.

Originally posted by puree@May 22 2004, 12:10 AM
and I would bet poo is there next year,,,
i wouldn't bet on that, they missed the boat with their all new,,,, :confused:

Another positive review, way to go Yammi.
I only hope being forced to shave serious weight off the sleds doesn't cause a long term quality control problem due to flimsy items.

Originally posted by spikegary@May 14 2004, 02:57 PM
....I’m trying to find my socks - they’ve been blown off....

...I used the word light and 4-stroke in the same paragraph. I’m still dizzy....

...I can’t believe it.....

....Yes, this is a report on Yamaha snowmobiles.....

....you better recalibrate your preconceived notions about Yamaha handling, weight and most importantly, ride quality. They are about to change....

Not too bad from a guy who rides as many machines as he does... Maybe the 2005 line-up will finally quiet the masses who don't think a 4-stroke snowmobile is as good as the 2-strokes of old.

I'm not saying that the 2-stroke is or should be a thing of the past, but let's face it - they've come a long way in developing REAL 4-stroke sleds in a very short time.

Originally posted by woodwurker620@May 21 2004, 11:45 AM
Hopefully they'll get all the bugs worked out in the next few years. Until then I'll stick with my Yamaha 2-stroke.
What Bugs, I didn't have any in my 03 RX-1 or 04 Warrior :p

Originally posted by spikegary@May 14 2004, 02:57 PM

----------
So, that's another article.........Yamaha is improving the line-up and fixing the complaints from customers. Sounds like it's time to visit your Yamaha Dealer
!!!
First off paying attention to an article from Supertrax is a big mistake. That rag is by far the worst out there.
Secondly they better do something about the seats on the RX 1's because everyone who I ran into this year that owned one all had thew same complaint about the seat spliting open on the sides.

Originally posted by gravy davey@May 14 2004, 04:39 PM
Super Trax can have my 2stroke when they pry it from my cold dead hands.
Amen to that.

Originally posted by spikegary@May 18 2004, 12:02 PM
O.K., but you might find that the benefits are now outweighing the drawbacks on the 4-strokes.......
Uh.... Lets see.......Nope.

2 strokes are: nimple, light, easy and cheap to fix and mod, awesome fuel milage on SDI sleds, light, cheaper to buy, did I mention how it weighs less than the 4 strokes, good cold weather starting.

4 strokes are or have : heavier than a comparable 2 stroke, more expensive to rebuid a 4 stroke, more complex to rebuild a 4 stroke, heavier than a comparable 2 stroke, on par fuel milage to SDI sleds, no 2 stroke smell, no 2 stroke oil to be a slave to, heavier than a comparable 2 stroke, tricky cold weather starting at times.

Originally posted by revrnd@May 19 2004, 08:14 AM
Maybe you should wait for real world reports about how the new rear suspension works.
Thats what I was thinking. All the magazine articles in the world don't mean diddly if the factory screws up the final calibrations on the sled. Many times what the mag's test in the spring are way off what the consumer gets and it is usually us the consumer that suffers. I'm happy for the sport that yammy has shaken things up a bit by expanding the line of 4 strokes and bringing out a new skid. The 2 stroke and 4 stroke debate will go on for a long time yet.

It's going to be an interesting year, and you guys are right, time will tell if they got it right. Nevertheless, you have to give them credit, they have brought their own technology in sleds a long way in a short period of time.

Originally posted by rob7374@Jun 2 2004, 01:36 PM
The 2 stroke and 4 stroke debate will go on for a long time yet.
This same debate happened with Motocross bikes, GP bikes and watercraft. Here's the news flash for ya.......the 2 strokes didn't win the debate.
I don't think this debate is going to last as long as most people think.
btw.... 2700 miles this winter on my RX and the seat didn't split open, and I never saw one that did either........but it could use some more padding :D

A 4 stroke motor is more complex than a 2 stroke right? Comparing the motor less induction & cooling items (both types of motors will be fuel injected in the future & both need water pumps), there are less parts needed to make a 2 motor. Unless 'doo plans on using the Sea-doo motors in their sleds I can't see them engineering a high end 4 stroke for the sled market.

They are quite happy w/ the performance of the SDI motors, so why would they want to go 4 stroke?

Yamaha already had the RX1 motor so 1/2 the design & engineering had been done.

I've had my RX-1 since Feb of 03 and the seat hasn't split. Not sure what I'm doing differently...........

The point on rebuilding 2 strokes vs. 4 strokes-you don't have to do it near as often on a 4-stroke. The one guy put on 10,000 miles on his 03 RX-1 1st season (another thread on this site). No mechanical problems. How many times would you have rebuilt your 2-stroke in that many miles, honestly?

If you have to rebuild it and it's say twice as expensive, but you only have to do it 1/4 times as often as a 2-stroke, then are you really losing money? (I used these figues as an example only).

Originally posted by spikegary@Jun 3 2004, 01:45 PM
I've had my RX-1 since Feb of 03 and the seat hasn't split. Not sure what I'm doing differently...........

The point on rebuilding 2 strokes vs. 4 strokes-you don't have to do it near as often on a 4-stroke. The one guy put on 10,000 miles on his 03 RX-1 1st season (another thread on this site). No mechanical problems. How many times would you have rebuilt your 2-stroke in that many miles, honestly?

If you have to rebuild it and it's say twice as expensive, but you only have to do it 1/4 times as often as a 2-stroke, then are you really losing money? (I used these figues as an example only).
On the seat issue I'm not sure why so many around here have had problems. One of the guys i ride with will be installing his 3rd replacement seat cover this fall. What seems to happen is the cover starts to split right below the hump at the back. Again why I don't know. He is not the only one as we have seen several like this and one was on a RX Warrior with less than 1000 km's on it.

As for the rebuild issue I have seen an old 583 Rotax go just over 14,000 miles before it was sold and that engine was never apart. My old XLT has close to 18,000 miles on it now. I sold it at almost 12,000 miles and one of my riding partners picked it up for his wife and she has put on the rest. With proper care and maintenance any engine should last a long time. Heck Rob from HCS puts on big miles on a 2 stroke every year. What I like is the simplicity of the 2 stroke. No need to worry about intake and exuast valves and there guides and seats. Camshaft ? Not on a 2 stroke. One has to be a little more knowledgable about engines to repair a 4 strokes. There is a enough of an issue out there with incompetant dealers who can't fix a 2 stroke let alone a 4 stroke. I'm not saying we don't need them. I can see some merits of using a 4 stroke over a 2 stroke but lets not be so ignorant as to assume the 2 stroke is gone for ever and no longer has a place in the snowmobile market. As of right now a 2 stroke suits my needs and riding style. I have spent some time on an RX 1. Not a bad sled and it was a good thing I compared it to my ZX chassis not the Rev chassis( sorry but the REV chassis IMO is awesome. To bad the engines suck ) . To be honest I was expecting more out of the engine after the way it was hyped by Yammy. But it was smooooth and given some distance it could get up and go. Just didn't have that hit I like so much out of a 2 stroke.

Some machines you have to replace piston rings, some seat skins.... it's all the same... :D

Oops... was that my outside voice?

Just kidding Rob, I think my point (and your point) is that they all have their little problems, and not every machine suits every rider.

Thank God for choice.