I'm still undecided :crazy: Thought I would see what the consensus is here.

i always have a little to say about politics but i have nothing this time because i have no good opinions about any of them.

the whole politics process is in for enema because we are finding out the young people don't trust any of the politicians.

I'm having a difficult time with this decision too. I definitely won't vote Liberal and I feel that the Tories are just a wolf in sheeps clothes. They are, afterall, the Alliance and Reform parties with the Conservative name. I hated what the NDP did here in Ontario with Bob Rae, so I probably won't vote for them. Hmmm that leaves the BQ and Green Party. Bloc Quebecois is moot, I'm not in Quebec and don't want them to separate and the Green Party, which seems like the lesser of all the evils has a weak platform and are very inexperienced politically. They probably would make a bigger mess of things than the NDP would. Maybe I'll just officially decline my ballot again this year or take the lesser evil and go Green Party. As for voting for a candidate in our area, the Liberal candidate is principal at the high school in Midland and is known to side with a child over a teacher just to get the parent's vote. This is hearsay. I understand that the Tory candidate is a prat too. The Green Party candidate is well respected here in town and the NDP candidate is unknown to me. I will NOT be voting CHP for sure.

Renee

here is something that was sent to me today.....

Hello. My name is Alan Robberstad. I am a Canadian. One voter out of millions of Canadian voters.

Paul Martin is no friend of mine. Liberal governments have not made my life any better. Liberal governments have made the future worse for my children.

Jean Chretien and the Liberal Party became Prime Minister many years ago. Guess who was the Liberal Finance Minister.....Paul Martin...LEST WE FORGET.

Since 1993:

(1) My taxes have increased.
(2) My family's share of the national debt has increased.
(3) My personal expenses have increased.
(4) My waiting time to see a doctor has increased.
(5) My concerns for my family's safety have increased.
(6) My costs to educate my children have increased.
(7) Government interference in my life has increased.
(8) My personal debt has increased.
(9) My income has stayed more or less the same.
(10) My savings have decreased.
(11) The buying power of my dollar, in Canada, has decreased.
(12) The value of my dollar, in the U.S., has decreased.
(13) My trust of elected officials has decreased.
(14) My trust in the justice system has decreased.
(15) My trust in the immigration system has decreased.
(16) My hope that a Liberal won't waste my tax dollars has decreased.
(17) My dreams for a better future for my kids, in Canada, have disappeared.

That is my story since the Liberals came to power.

I am not voting for Paul Martin's Liberals. I am voting against Paul Martin and his Liberal Party on June 28, 2004. I am voting for Stephen Harper and the Conservative Party. Do I like the Conservatives? Not particularly......I don't really like Politics. I am not political by nature. I am not passionate about politics. I am a middle age guy (48). I live in a small house on a fairly quiet street in Edmonton. I have a wife, Kathy, and two children (ages 19 and 17). I have no pets. I am a middle class man. I don't usually say too much. Until now. Now I am going to say something! In 35 of the past 37 years, Canada has been ruled by:

(1) Pierre Trudeau - a multi-millionaire lawyer from Quebec.
(2) Brian Mulroney - a multi-millionaire lawyer from Quebec.
(3) Jean Chretien - a multi-millionaire lawyer from Quebec.
(4) And now we are going to vote for Paul Martin???? - a multi-millionaire lawyer from Quebec???

The leader of the Conservative party, Stephen Harper, is:

(1) Not a lawyer.
(2) Not a multi-millionaire.
(3) Not from Quebec.

Stephen Harper says that the Conservative party will:

(1) Reduce my taxes.
(2) Pay off the national debt as fast as they can.
(3) Shrink the size and influence of the federal government.

That's good enough for me. I'm going to give the Conservative party a chance with my vote. But wait! Paul Martin is now saying the same thing. My mother told me forty years ago: "Fool me once - shame on you. Fool me twice - shame on me!"

The Liberals have had 34 years to be financially responsible. Remember, Jean Chretien was Trudeau's Finance Minister. Remember also, Paul Martin was Jean Chretien's Finance Minister. These people have been raising my taxes for thirty four years. They have been mis-spending my tax dollars for 34 years. 34 years!

And now Paul Martin says he'll stop taxing and spending. No way.
Thank you for reading my story so far! Why am I telling my story to you? Although I feel alone, I know that I am not alone. Your story may be similar to mine. And you may also feel alone. One small voter in the midst of millions of voters. What can you and I do together to change things?

Alan Robberstad, Edmonton, Alberta, June 10, 2004 @ 3:00 p.m.

Dawg, that message is really getting around. I received it from both ends of the country in the last two days. It'll be interesting to see if it changes anyone's mind.

These people have been raising my taxes for thirty four years. They have been mis-spending my tax dollars for 34 years. 34 years!
I'm not following that guy's math; where is he getting the 34 years from? The liberals have not been in power for the last 34 years!

Wasn't it Mulroney who weakened health and safety language (right to refuse) and made the eligibility requirements much tougher for workers to access (un)employment insurance?

Here's a copy of a letter I received in my inbox yesterday; some interesting insight:

Meeting with Stephen Harper last April 28, in his office, Ottawa.

Last April Buzz (Hargrove) and I met Stephen Harper in his office to discuss three
issues: 1) Air Canada support for early pension enhancement, 2) A
Shipbuilding policy for Canada which would start with the immediate
commitment to build the three ships Canada's requires and using the $55
million that was given to Irving Inc. and 3) A Canadian Auto Policy starting
with government support for a new Ford Oakville Plant.

Our hour meeting with him was one of the most frustrating encounters we have
had with a politician. First, he and his research assistant were ill
prepared for the discussion and minds were closed to any form of a
meaningful exchange of ideas.

Here is just a glimpse of the real Harper.

Air Canada

We made a strong case to support the workers of Canada's national airline
during this critical time. We advanced the proposition that young workers of
the airline could be working if we could find financial resources to
provide the long-term workers with a retirement incentive of one year's
wages. We argued this could come from the huge E.I. fund and of course
those younger workers who would remain working would not be drawing benefits
from the fund.

Unbelievably, Harper asked why the "taxpayer should bail out Air Canada"?
Buzz explained that we were not talking about the company but rather helping
the workers and their families who are taxpayers, but, as well, the E.I.
premiums are paid half by workers and the rest employers. Harper had no
reply other than to say "there must be a private sector solution". Sadly,
he told us one of his neighbours is a laid off Air Canada worker. But he
was not interested in looking at government involvement to help these
workers.

Shipbuilding

Buzz reviewed the dismal state of shipbuilding in Canada and urged Harper to
support a proposal that would call for the three Canadian ships required to
be built in Canada. There are more than 2500 ships being built in the world
today and Canada has the skilled workers to build ships. We pointed out the
hardships that workers face due to the closing of ship building yards in
Canada. Harper's dead pan response was he believed shipbuilding would be
better left to the competitive bidding process.

Buzz said the USA had the Jones Act in place and that there was nothing
competitive about this Act as it requires all ships travelling within US
ports must be built in the US, by American workers, must be crewed by
American workers and must be maintained and repaired by American workers.
Harper did not appear to know anything about the American Act.

We also pointed out that the Irving family received $55 million to mothball
the St. John NB shipyard and that these funds should be used as a lever to
get the yard opened again to help east coast workers and their families.
Nonetheless, Harper stuck to his view about letting the free market forces
prevail. He had absolutely no empathy for the plight of the working families
who lives would be so enhanced if we have a government commitment to kick
start and sustain a Canadian shipbuilding industry. His disdain for the
Atlantic region is summed up in his previous comment when he said they have
to break from the "culture of dependency".

Canadian Auto Policy

Buzz pointed out that we as Canadians were losing many good paying,
long-term jobs in the auto industry to US states who are giving auto
companies huge incentives to locate there. He raised closing of the Ford
Oakville Truck and that this was happening despite the fact that the quality
and profitability of this site are superior to the USA plants.

The fact that the auto industry is such a key part of Canada's economic
engine appeared totally lost on Harper. His simplistic, by now predictable
reply, was that he opposed any government involvement is supporting the
industry and that this problem is one for the free market forces to solve.
He said he was not interested in helping big corporations and he was
reminded by Buzz that our proposals are designed to help working families in
auto communities and that this industry happens to provide enormous spin off
jobs for every auto assembly job that is created. On top of this the taxes
raised from the company and the workers is enormously important to the well
being of our various levels of government. On top of this we pointed out
that wherever an auto assembly plant is built, all the parts plants will
locate there as well. And likewise if we were to lose a plant, many of the
parts supplier plants plants will be lost as well. Buzz urged him to talk
with Belinda Stronach so he could at least learn something about the auto
industry in this country.

None of this phased him. He did not show any concern for the working
families and the hardships they face. He stuck to his the " free-market
forces can solve the country's problems" line to the bitter end of a long,
long hour.

I commented to Buzz after the meeting that if we would have had the meeting
on video tape and workers could see it, no respectable caring Canadian
worker would ever vote for Harper and his right-wing ideologues. The
Reform/Alliance/Tories just don't care about ordinary Canadians.

Harper's undertaker-like coldness to the plight of working people is
shameful. We should make sure our leadership, activists and retired members
and their families get to know what the real Harper is all about.

Behind that baby-faced leader lurks a hardened right-wing conservative who
wants to interfere with a women's right to reproductive choice, opposes same
sex marriage, wants the for-profit private sector to fully participate in
the healthcare system, would have preferred to send Canadian troops to fight
in Iraq and would be a door mat for George W. Bush.

This anti-worker, anti-union politician is not worthy of workers votes. His
proposed tax cuts will be six to eight times deeper than those of Mike
Harris. What services will we lose? what surcharges and user fees will we
have to endure? how many children will be hurt? how much hardship will
working families and retired workers encounter?

Harper is bad news and as we head into the final stages of this federal
election more has to be done to expose this phoney.

Cheers and solidarity,


Paul Forder
Director,
Membership Mobilization and Campaigns
CAW-Canada

they are all rotten devils. the problem i have is knowing the conservatives are in bed with the bloc.

Great Post Jacqui, He has some pretty scary agendas. I recieved the same email and was going to post it.

and then they wonder why most of use younger people could care less if we voted or not. They are all a bunch of crooks in one or another. I guess i would just like to see someone different.

Sorry if its long but its very interesting. Sorry for the bad translation...here it goes...


Who records his ships under foreign flags not to pay his taxes in Canada? Paul Martin
Who has accounts of banks in tax havens (Barbades, the Bahamas)? Paul Martin
Who replaced his sailors who gained 12,00 $/hour by Ukrainians with 2,00 $/hour? Paul Martin
Who hired the strikebreakers at Voyageur when it was the owner? Paul Martin
Who tried to make modify the Canadian legislation for the statute of the workers on the boats so that they are not covered any more by the Canadian code of work? Paul Martin
Who inserted in 1998 8 lines into the end of a bulky document of 800 pages of the bus bill (C-28) to put his company of boats (CSL) safe from any continuation going up 10 years
behind until the infinite one emanating from Canada Income? Paul Martin
Who took the money collected by the workers, the surpluses of the unemployment insurance (45 billion dollars)? Paul Martin
And who doesn't have the right to receive his full assembling unemployment insurance (chargeable)?
Who is responsible for the cuts in the hospitals of about 36 % of the money of our taxes? Paul Martin
And who bursts in the passages of hospital for lack of money?
Who made vote tax credits to the poor oil companies (250 million dollars)? Paul Martin
And how much taxation of the gasoline paid in excess?
Who in 1997 let the Bronfman family probably transfer 2 billion dollars to the United States then in a tax haven without paying taxes? Paul Martin
Who opposed highly so that there is an investigation on this subject? Paul Martin
And how much of old people did not have right to their dû?(supplément of guaranteed income) the Economic Development and Co-operation body required of the countries which had conventions with tax havens to cancel these agreements. Who refused? Paul Martin
Who can't prohibit at the large banks (except Desjardins) to open branches in tax havens because it has itself an account? Paul Martin
Who received 11 million dollars for his election campaign?
Will Paul Martin Which be the compensations in return?
Who are these generous givers??? I want to know
Which benefit of the contracts granted by the government??

At the beginning of 2003, Mr. David Collenette did not intend to support the Americans for the widening of the Maritime way of the St. Lawrence, in October
it contradicts its decision and authorizes 500 000 $ for the beginning of the feasibility studies on a total of 10 000 000 $ Only to study.
Who was elected Prime Minister meanwhile? Paul Martin
The advantage of this project is to make pass from the boats of 1 000 feet which will be able to go to the large lakes. The project is to dig and widen the St. Lawrence.
Who has boats of 1 000 feet? Paul Martin
Why this sudden change?? Which that benefits?? Paul Martin

Let us speak pollution.
While dredging the river one would give in circulation of many pollutants in more of those of these boats. Who in 1991 and 2002 was condemned to have
poured toxic products in Canadian water? Canadian Steamship Lines property of the Martin family And which draws their drinking water directly in the river?
2 000 000 payers of taxes Which has advantage in this project? Americans to make pass their warships, the family Martin, a part of people who contributed to the electoral case,

The approximate cost of this better project is 20 000 000 000 $ yes 20 billion $. 10 for the United States and 10 for Canada.
And who will pay? Paul Martin? (it does not pay its taxes in Canada) Bronfman?

And to help it in his steps one finds: Denis Coderre, Stéphane Dion, Pierre Petitgrew, Robillard and now Lapierre.
And those which left Jean Chrétien, Alphonso Gagliano etc. And here I do not even speak about the scandal about
the mixed liability companies........ After this report I wonder who can vote Libéral?




I dont think that the liberal will get my vote....

ABC.....Right on.

I am only 17 and cannot vote.

I do not know much about these partys but i still have a little opinion.

I would vote conservative. They would get my vote because how many millions of dollars have the liberals spent on gun registry??? The gun registry doesn't even really help. The liberals could of spent that money on something more usefull like health care or schools or something like that. I know that Stephen Harper is gonna scrap the gun registry and save are money.
Also how many time have the Liberals raised are taxes when they promised not to? Also how professional is it for Dalton Mguinty to go around saying that the civillians were just having a hissy fit. He said that as soon as he saw that Martin came out infront on the polls.

That is just my little opinion on this election.

Another great post, Thanxs ABC. They are another party that will not be getting my vote.

King, when i turned 18 and was able to get my deer liscense they told me in a few yrs i would have to register my gun so i might as well do it now. I didnt do it, because the day i register my gun, is the day i stop hunting. Its now 6 yrs later and i still have yet to be made to register my gun. The Gov has spent millions of our tax dollars and suckered millions out of the people who have registered there guns. i am not saying that if you have registered your guns that you have done the wrong thing, there are some good points to this registery but personally i will not register. What next, will they want my fishing rod too? :p

In my opinion for what its worth, and I'm not big into politics.

I can't fathom how any canadian could even consider giving the liberals another chance. They flat out don't deserve it. We all have been screwed over big time. And I'm real happy that I have to pay an additional $900/yr in a health tax premium in Ontario starting July 1st. While I agree, that heath care is important, I don't know how they have the nerve to waste my money on stuff like the Gun Registry, and the various scanduls that have happend, and then increase my costs.

How about taking all the money you already take from me, stop wasting it, and use it for something worthwhile.

So, Liberals are definitely out. Can't vote for them. Despite the fact that our local candidate is probably the best one for our area, he represents the liberal party, and I can't vote for him.

While agree, there is not good choice (they all suck), the reality is, there is only one way to vote if you don't want the liberals, since there is only 1 party who is even competing with them. Lets face it, NDP, or Green party are just not going to get enough votes to make a difference.

so, I will go to the polls, and with distaste vote for the conservatives. Say what you want, and point out all the bad things that might happen under conservative rule (your probably right), but the fact still stands, the Liberals don't deserve one single vote. They haven't earned it, in fact they have done quite the opposite.

FishHog

great post fishie.... they really dont deserve it do they. the thing that ticks me off is that people complain so much about who is in power, but time after time there are people voting these guys back into power.

Originally posted by dawg@Jun 24 2004, 01:00 PM
the thing that ticks me off is that people complain so much about who is in power, but time after time there are people voting these guys back into power.
Exactly.

it never ceases to amaze me. I can see the odd person still thinking the liberals should be in power, but it amazes me that its such a high percentage.

Funny, how in the latest polls, liberals and conservatives are tied, yet on a snowmobiling site, it seems to be a large majority for the conservatives.

I truly believe its the big city dwellers who stay sheltered in the big cities that don't see the rest of the world around them, and just believe what the liberals tell them.
If that made any sense.

For example, I bet the large majority of Toronto residents, really believe the 2 billon that has been spent on the gun registry was money well spent. Where the rest of us know, that registering duck hunters does not make for safer streets.

FishHog

PAUL YAREK FOR PRIME MINISTER

I'll vote Liberal when Paul Martin pays his taxes in Canada, not until then.
I'll vote Liberal when the government stops stealing from me, not until then.
I'll vote Liberal when 2 billion is used to pay for more police to take illegal guns off the street, not until then.
I'll vote Liberal when illegal immigrants(criminals) are deported immediately, not set loose to do as they please, not until then.
I'll voye Liberal when 25 yrs in prison actually means 25 years,not 15, not until then.
I'll vote Liberal when my elected representative actually believes I am as intelligent as he/she is, not until then.
I'll vote Liberal when the Senate is abolished or at the very least made an elected body,not until then.
I'll vote Liberal when elected,not appointed Judges are held accountable for their actions, not until then.
I'll vote Liberal when the huindreds of elected representatives of the people of Canada are allowed to do the job they were elected to do without threats and intimidation from the PMO. In other words, allowed to vote as their constituents want them too, not how the prime minister tells them too. NOT UNTIL THEN!!!
I'll vote Liberal when 14 year old murderers are treated as murderers, not poor unfortunate children, not until then.
I'll vote Liberal when useless losers like Anne McClellan,Allan Rock, David Collenette,Pierre Pettigrew et all are on the unemployment line instead of making life changing descisions for me,not until then.

So, to summarize this post, I'll vote Liberal when HELL FREEZES OVER!!!!

i think everyone that seems to think the liberals are ok, should come and live in NB for a couple yrs. then they will get to see how we are getting screwed over here. I am sure we are not the only place, but of course there are alwys the people that will always be liberal and thats ok. It takes all types to make this world go around, but it has only taken one type of people to take this country down.

I'd like to know how many of the weapons siezed from criminals are actually registered, I'd take a guess at zero. Furthermore if you register a gun, and it gets stolen and you report it, and then it's used in a crime, what bloody good was it being registered in the first place. What the cops going to return your stolen gun to you, doubt it. BS, what a waste, this election makes them accountable for the mistakes of the past, when they get voted out for missmanaging our hard earned money that we pay to them in taxes. :cussing:

How is it that we allow a government to do what ever they want for the four years they are in power, even if they get voted out and retire, they don't care, they are collecting a better pension then I ever will. !!!

Originally posted by jawz@Jun 25 2004, 03:04 PM
How is it that we allow a government to do what ever they want for the four years they are in power, even if they get voted out and retire, they don't care, they are collecting a better pension then I ever will. !!!
I agree, but unfortunately it appears that 1/2 the voters who have decided who they are voting for, somehow enjoy getting screwed.

absolutely amazing to me ? ? ? ? ? :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

Good post doonut

yup, its got me baffled too..... :crazy:

Boy, some of you have some really strong opinions, and state them well. :thumbsup:
Except Jawz. :lol:

Originally posted by KING@Jun 23 2004, 10:38 PM
I would vote conservative. They would get my vote because how many millions of dollars have the liberals spent on gun registry??? The gun registry doesn't even really help. The liberals could of spent that money on something more usefull like health care or schools or something like that. I know that Stephen Harper is gonna scrap the gun registry and save are money.

King ,
I 'll vote for you as that too is my only goal in this election.

I normaly do not vote as I don't usually keep up on politics , but i am voting this time to get ride of the gun registry and Paul Martin

Just a reminder; today's the day. Let's go people, get out and vote! :D

Try not to vote for the worse one of the bunch... :(

i cant see many of use snowmobilers voting for the greenies :D

Liberals with a minority government. Looks like the NDP will play an important roll in this government. Should be interesting!

i guess it wasnt a total loss then was it

amazing. Just absolutely amazing.

Thank god is a minority, but it was a little too close for comfort.

FishHog

Well, I guess that just goes to prove I live amongst the stupid. I cannot believe that the scare tactic commercials the Liberals ran actually convinced the dumb and dumber to vote Liberal in this province again. What has to happen, does Martin need to be convicted of rape and murder to get him and his band of corrupt thieving immoral liars un elected? All I can say is pass the butt lube and the paper bags. Or translated into Ontarian Speak...BAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

I've come to the conclusion that some people either don't (or can't) read newspapers, or enjoy being robbed on a daily basis.

What I thought was abhorable was the fact that there was only a 60% turnout at the polls. This was the lowest turnout since the 1880's or there abouts. Who knows how the election may have gone if the other 40% bothered to vote. It's deplorable that people don't take voting more seriously and do their duty. We're lucky to live in a country where we CAN vote, others would kill for the same priviledge. Truly sad.

Renee

its amazing isnt it. All you hear about in my area is how much people hate our government leaders, and that they will never vote for them and its time to get someone different in there. but in my riding and the surrounding ones, Liberal got all the votes. I guess we are in for another few yrs of getting shafted. Maybe we shouldnt be mad at the leaders of our country for this, but we should be mad at the people who voted them back in.

Liberal minority depending on the NDP. Hold on to your wallet.

the problem is that the urban centers control the outcome. 22 seats alone went liberal from the toronto area. I guess promises of money for the TTC is enough for the urbanites to forget about being robbed blind.

Its funny how the smaller communities, and the west all voted conservative to no avail. Although I'm surprised that the east is so stong for the liberals.

I guess I just need to move to a big city, stick my head up my a$$ and believe everything is just rosy the way it is.

FishHog

One other thing that ticks me off, is that the green party received enough votes (wasted votes in my opinion) that they now qualify for federal funding.

so kiss another $3M away to support them.

what a country.

FishHog

I think we should form a new party, the Sick Of Getting Screwed party. We could put forth a platform of personal responsibility, working for a living, punishing,not coddling criminals, lowering taxes buy eliminating the senate and half of the seats in parliment,eliminating all the corporate welfare, billion dollar handout programs etc etc. We could use all the leftover money to pay of the national debt, rebuild the military and pay police officers to actually arrest criminals. Elect judges who believe in real sentences for real crimes and then force the prisoners to build their own prisons in say the high arctic. No need for expensive fences, 100 below and polar bears would provide all the security needed :)

Nah, the sheep in Ontario and the east would never vote for a party with real plans and integrity would they.

Originally posted by doonut@Jun 30 2004, 12:50 PM
I think we should form a new party, the Sick Of Getting Screwed party.
Where do I sign up?

Originally posted by Zog@Jun 30 2004, 03:10 PM
Where do I sign up?
Do we get free Pilsner as well ?

Originally posted by rob7374@Jun 30 2004, 01:21 PM
Do we get free Pilsner as well ?
Ok, now I want to be leader. :D

The acronym would be S.O.G.S. So it is only fitting that ZOG be nominated,LOL.

I can use a good campaign manager, perm!

Doonut........ Even though I ride an Arctic Cat I would Vote for you in a heartbeat.

zog, will you be campaigning in my area?

Yes, once I sober up.

zog, thats a good thing. LOL i just saw in the paper today that fines are doubling in my province. i am sure that driving under the influence is one of them. :p

and you should use your avator on your signs that you plaster all over the country.

How the heck did this get dug up??? :dazed:

That's what I was wondering too. I don't even remember the thread.

:huh:

Ok guys it was me I could not see the results of the vote so I voted to see...so it was me that dug it up .... :lmao:


Rick