Posted: Mon May 13, 2002 7:32 pm * *Post subject: Beware of Bluewater Network *

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I signed up for their newsletter because they don't like us PWC people either.. i just got this in the mail...

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Dear Bluewater Network eActivists:

A little more than two weeks remains for submitting comments on the National Park Service's supplemental environmental impact statement (SEIS) on snowmobile use at Yellowstone and Grand Teton National Parks in Wyoming. The deadline is May 29th.

The Park Services estimates that it has received nearly 100,000 comments on its plan to phase out snowmobiles and replace them with a mass-transit snowcoach system. We know the snowmobile industry is flooding the Park Service with thousands of comments. If we are to protect these magnificent parks from snowmobile damage, the Park Service needs to hear from an overwhelming majority who support the phase-out.

Thank you to all of you who have already sent their letters. If you haven't already sent a letter, or have additional comments you wish to be considered by the Park Service, please send your thoughts today. A sample letter is provided below.

With your help, we are making the difference.

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TELL THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION THAT SNOWMOBILES ARE AN INVASIVE SPECIES THAT DOESN'T BELONG IN YELLOWSTONE OR GRAND TETON NATIONAL PARK!

Send comments to the National Park Service telling them why snowmobiles impair your enjoyment of the parks, and that they should be banned from Yellowstone.

BACKGROUND
Each winter, more than 60,000 thundering snowmobiles transform Yellowstone National Park from a breathtaking natural wonderland to something approaching a stock car race. Enormous amounts of blue smoke spewed from snowmobiles' tailpipes have forced park rangers to wear respirators on the job and continue to choke park visitors and wildlife. Along with air quality impacts, snowmobiles are known to degrade visitor enjoyment of the park, harass wildlife, shatter natural quiet, and jeopardize public health and safety.

Last year, after exhaustive scientific study and with overwhelming public support, the National Park Service announced a decision to initiate a phase-out of these dirty, noisy machines. But the billion-dollar snowmobile industry sued the Park Service, and in July, Secretary of the Interior Gale Norton yielded to industry pressure and agreed to draft a supplemental environmental impact statement (SEIS) in an attempt to derail the original decision by the Park Service. The only way to now defend Yellowstone and its wildlife is to demonstrate a groundswell of public support for the snowmobile ban.

TAKE ACTION!
Please send a letter to the National Park Service and tell them that you believe SEIS' alternative 1A, which suggests snowmobiles be banned, is still the best option to protect Yellowstone and Grand Teton. Comments can be emailed to: grte_winter_use_seis@nps.gov

As always, we would appreciate it if you could send a copy of your letters to Bluewater Network's Sean Smith, Public Lands Campaign Director, at: seansmith@earthisland.org.

IMPORTANT!
Comments containing personal experiences with snowmobiles and how these machines negatively impact your preferred use of the park will carry more weight with the Park Service. So, please feel free to add your own thoughts at the start of the letter.

SAMPLE LETTER


Winter Use Draft SEIS Comments
Grand Teton and Yellowstone National Parks
PO Box 352
Moose, Wyoming 83012

RE: Comments on Supplemental Environmental Impact Statement (SEIS) for Yellowstone and Grand Teton National Parks

I strongly support the original winter use plan that banned recreational snowmobiling from Yellowstone and Grand Teton national parks. The draft Supplemental Environmental Impact Statement's (SEIS) alternative 1A, which represents the original snowmobile ban, is the one the National Park Service should choose.

The snowmobile industry is pushing so-called "cleaner and quieter" machines as the answer to all problems associated with the craft. Unfortunately, scientists and researchers are finding that snowmobiles, even with this prototype technology, still cause significant damage to the environment and wildlife. For example, researchers in Montana have found that snowmobiles, even when restricted to groomed trails, push park wildlife such as moose out of preferred habitats. Moreover, this new technology will do nothing to reduce the impact of the more than 1.4 million snowmobiles currently racing across public lands. Finally, the so-called "cleaner and quieter" machines are unlikely to improve the craft's horrific safety record.

The Park Service's Organic Act empowers the agency to regulate recreational activities within these parks. In addition, the courts have consistently ruled that the Organic Act requires the Park Service to leave the resources and wildlife of the park system "unimpaired" for future generations. Although the National Park Service at Yellowstone and Grand Teton is obligated to provide appropriate opportunities for outdoor recreation, that recreation cannot impair park resources and values.

I strongly urge the Park Service to adopt alternative 1A of the SEIS. Taking snowmobiles out of Yellowstone and Grand Teton national parks is the right decision. Snowmobilers have many other places to ride their machines. Please keep Yellowstone and Grand Teton free from snowmobiles so that those of us who appreciate clean, safe parks where wildlife and natural sounds are undisturbed can still enjoy a premium experience in our greatest national parks.

Thank you for considering my views.

your name
your address



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Bluewater Network

300 Broadway, Suite 28
San Francisco, CA 94133
Phone: 415-788-3666 x 150
Fax: 415-788-7324
Email: bluewater@earthisland.org
www.bluewaternetwork.org

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Now you know what they're up to
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Snowmobiles have tailpipes.......i guess some of them do now! *

the whole thing is rediculous!!!! they certainly are not fightin fair!!!!!!! http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

I would like to know about the damage snowmobile cause as opposed to hikers, sleds don't even touch the ground *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif *I think there are a lot more serious environmental issues out there like clear cut logging which do destroy forests. And about the blue smoke, what sled are they referring to, a 1969 *olympic ? I'm pretty sure that there is still less pollution done in the park in winter then during summer.

Snowmobiles don't have the impact that they allege. The two strokes do put out quite a bit of pollution. *This is where the four strokes come in. *This is the same old tired elitist propaganda that has been spewed now for the last few years.

The way to fight this cr@p, is to get busy and send in your own letters of support for snowmobiling. *We MUST play the activist role that these people do. *Otherwise, they'll win. *These people get have success because while we are typically out there enjoying our recreation, these idiots are rabidly trying to make life suck for others as much as it does for them.


For those that haven't done so yet, go to this site: *http://www.saveyellowstonepark.org/

Send in your letter for support of Alternative #2.

C'mon people, let's give 'em h#ll!!

It is all political BS!!! Somebody wants to put in a "mass transit" snow transit system that has alot of money and political pull. If they ban the snowmobiles then the only way to see the parks in the winter time is to PAY for the ride on this Transit system. Dirty politics at its finest!!! If we dont get these people out of office that are taking the "anti-snowmobilers" bribes we may as well park our machines in our garages, and sit on them and make VRoom Vroom noises, because that is all we will be able to do with them.

Do the environmentalists http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif *think that the thousands of vehicles that travel through yellowstone each summer don't damage the environment? *I think they should worry more about that than snowmobiles. *And it's not like snowmobile company's aren't making an effort. *Look at all the four-strokes everyones come out with.

This was my response to them in an e-mail:

* *To whom it may concern,

* * *I am writing in response to the copy contained at the end of my letter

* * *First of all, a snowmobile is not a species, it is a machine that is ridden by a one. Human, *just like you.

* * Most of us that ride sleds (snowmobiles), want to enjoy the vistas and wildlife just as much as you. Yes, there are some who ride just to go fast, and I, at times, do the same. *Those times are reserved for areas where it is safe to do so.

* * You are doing a huge amount of generalizing and throwing out figures to people with no basis of proof. You are editorializing, plain and simple. Just spewing statements to suit your cause.

* * I challenge you to back up your statements with indisputable proof *and the source of that proof. If you can prove all of your statements in the letter that follows *with up to date *facts along with the source of those facts, not arguments, I will join your cause to ban sleds from Yellowstone and Grand Teton National Park.

* * Very Sincerely,

Keith Durkee / snowmobile rider
Industrial Sales & Grinding, Inc.
928 Second St
Kalamazoo, MI 49001
616-345-1101
durkee@toolgrinder.com

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">smoke spewed from snowmobiles&#39; tailpipes have forced park rangers to
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *wear respirators on the job [/b][/quote]

I guess Bluewater didn&#39;t realize these "rangers" were also wearing yellow suits, carrying huge hoses and standing in the middle of a raging forest fire.

The environmentalists dont give a crap about the planet, they only give a crap about there own living habitat, as long as where they live and where they go is clean they couldnt give a crap about any one or anything else.



Last edited by phazerhater at May 14, 2002, 1:01pm

This is the response so far:

Hey Keith:


Thanks for you note. While I don&#39;t have time to send you all the citations for our statements below, I would be happy to send you citations for data you believe is faulty. Please send me one to two statements you want citations for. However, please be advise that no scientific data is "indisputable." Even the notion that the earth is round is rejected by some people.

Sean

My response:

Hi Sean,

One of the things that bother me is the statement about snowmobiles harrassing wildlife. Please give me an example of this being done and how many cases there has been in Yellowstone.

Just riding on a snowmobile does neither harrass or even bother wildlife. I&#39;ve seen whitetail deer, bobcat, bear, and many other species of wildlife from the seat of my sled. In all cases they were just standing there watching us go by. No terror on their part. No fear that we were going to run them over. They were just looking at us out of curiosity.

Another thing that I would very much like the proof of is this statement by you:

"Enormous amounts of blue smoke spewed from snowmobiles&#39; tailpipes have forced park rangers to wear respirators on the job and continue to choke park visitors and wildlife."

At what point in time did this happen and are park rangers still wearing masks to filter pollution? Were the masks being worn due to the pollution from snowmobiles only? What type of masks were they wearing? *What purpose did the masks serve? To my knowledge, there is not a mask that filters out carbon monoxide unless they were wearing an oxygen tank. *Please explain. Is there proof that wildlife were actually choking?

Thanks,

Keith

Sledcrazy, clean it up a bit.
Thanks



Last edited by phazerhater at May 19, 2002, 11:05am

Why don&#39;t we as a site send out a truelly informative with scientific proof letter/Email to all those on this site and that the the manufacturers have in there data base&#39;s? We need to takea much deeper stance against these Crazys. You have to give them credit for how they are trying to get there way! Even if it&#39;s total B.S. . People are getting there mail and most are sending something in. So let&#39;s discuss strategy on how we will fight them not wasting time venting. I for one hane not ever been there but I would like to this year or next on a sled.
Caleb

phazerhater, I&#39;m sure sledcrazy posted over and over because he got an error when he posted and thought it didn&#39;t go through. *It&#39;s happened to me a few times lately. *I&#39;m sure it&#39;s going to happen to me right now because it looks like this topic has picked up one of those server errors.

yup I got an error.

Still no response to that last one. http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/exclamation.gif

This Yellowstone fire was started by one of the "more than 60,000 thundering snowmobiles transform Yellowstone National Park from a breathtaking natural wonderland to something approaching a stock car race"

Check out the "Enormous amounts of blue smoke spewed from snowmobiles&#39; tailpipes". *This park ranger is heading to go get his respirator.

I hope you didn&#39;t join the bluewater network. You need to join the blue ribbon coalition. Two smae sounding names two very different approaches to our land. One (bluewater) wants us ou of our land, while the other (BLUERIBBON) is fighting for us. Go to www.sharetrails.org. evin

you get em idooski!!!!!! http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif

I know I&#39;ve written some comments before on this topic. I can see that not all the comments here are from people that have ever ridden snowmobiles in Yellowstone. I have on 4 different occassions and the most recently was the first week of February of this year. *I am a snowmobiler and I want to see the park stay open. The rangers at the gates of the park were not wearing respirators that week. I did see published photgraphs of them wearing respirators later in Feb. *The main problem with two cycle exhaust accumilation occurs when large groups of sleds accumulate at the west entrance to the park. This is the only area that has that volume. This year they allowed the dealers in West Yellowstone Montana to sell park passes to reduce the congestion at the gate. When it is congested some people don&#39;t use their heads and turn the sleds off while they are waiting. *They used to make you park your sled, and walk into the entrance to purchase your pass. Now you put something that looks like a Ski lift pass on your left zipper so it minimizes stopping at the entrance.

*If sleds stay on the park roads like they are supposed to they can&#39;t damage any of the environment. But you have those few that have to get off the roads into the open snow. I would string those people up if I caught one.

Harassing the wild life typically refers to the buffalo. They will use the roads to avoid trudging through the deep snow. Sledders can harrass them by chasing them on the roads. I&#39;ve seen this. But once again you are talking about the *same few that will jump off the road. *

The merchants in West say that the summer time brings far more tourists and vehicles, but it is the winter snowmobilers that spend the money which built the town of West *Yellowstone Mt. Without us most of them will turn out the lights and leave for the winter.

Send your letters to the SEIS but write them civilized.
Let&#39;s keep the park open.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (performancex @ May 14, 2002, 4:57pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">phazerhater, I&#39;m sure sledcrazy posted over and over because he got an error when he posted and thought it didn&#39;t go through. *It&#39;s happened to me a few times lately. *I&#39;m sure it&#39;s going to happen to me right now because it looks like this topic has picked up one of those server errors.[/b][/quote]
I think you are probably right. *I appoligize if that is the case sledcrazy. The same thing happened to me and I had a double post as well, and couldn&#39;t read any posts past mine up until today... http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif * Sledcrazy&#39;s language was still a little uncalled for though and is why it was edited to "crap".
As for the problem with this topic (and others), we had this problem in the past and corey is working to fix the problem.
Again, sorry for getting on you sledcrazy if it was due to the current problem.

I sould send a copy of that letter to bombardier. *They would probably get in on this.


What a bunch of losers. *Enormous amounts of blue smoke spewed from snowmobiles&#39; tailpipes. *I mean come on not everyone rides arctic cats... * http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif . *

IM JUST JOKING..

The fact of the matter is that there are way to many people on this planet that will buy into this nuts claims and will right a letter because they think they are saving the enviroment. *He may have some stories about a wildlife encounter with a sled that caused the wildlife to run away. *But seriously are they raising there wildlife to be wimps there. *Here in canada if there is a moose or deer in the middle of the trail it will definitly get out of the way. *But its fine after that, its not going to crawl into a hole and have a seziure. *

IDOOSKI. *Great job. *I think you really took them by suprize. *

What is the guy talking about how he cant give you all the reasons. *(Probably because he didnt write them yet.) *You think a guy with a cause such as this would jump at the oportunity to convert a sledder into a tree hugger with the facts he has gathered. *

One things for sure. *Even in his letter he makes it clear that snowmobilers fight back...

I sent a copy of this letter to bombardier. *

They called me on the telephone 10min later. *

It was some lady named claire. *All she said was. We at bombardier want to thank you for bringing this letter to our attention and that there will be immidite action taken to correct all the false claims via there lawyers. *

Thats all sounded very good. *They responded so fast it was freaky.

Amazing the things we can accomplish when we stick together.