I am looking for a mach z to keep my 01 mxz 800 company in the garage. What year should i buy, i have a line on a 01 tech plus, a 2000 melinium, and a 98 with all the 99 updates.

Its the same chassis....so why not get the newest possible motor?



Last edited by Rocketman at June 10, 2002, 6:07pm

I have a stock 809 1997 Mach Z with the updated 99' clutch, it MOVES, with only a little over 1000 miles on it. It does put to shame the other real stockers. It makes every final in the Isr world series. Last year I did not go way over to Michigan, to race. 104 mph in 660ft. under 6.5 seconds. Email if interested johnschm@rconnect.com

2000 - 2003

Good point Sharkey....I hear 97 was the best year for the Mach in terms of HP and reliability.

hehehe personly i think that the best one is the 2000. it rocks. i have ran many 97`s and many 2001`s *and not had any probs.. the 97 is better then the 2001 on grass. but the 2000rer is the way to go.grab the milinium u wont be disapointed.u will beat alot of modified sleds with that model.....just *my 2$ hehe

The millenium mach is a sharp looking ride http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

how can you say no to this baby ! if i can get my hands on one that would be my #1 choice. Also it goes with my mellinum modular i got, hehehe http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Man thats awsome.

Add a chrome windshield (by cobra I think) and a purple headlight and maybe some purple lights under the running boards and vents. Verrrry kool http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

One of the best looking sleds I ever saw was in cochrane, it was a summit millenium edition with a chrome windshield. Boy that sled looked hot http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif

Watch the tinted headlights. The cops were writing guys up for them. The Ontario MSV Act. says the headlight has to be white http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

They gotta catch you first Rev http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/devil.gif *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/devil.gif I dont think they will be able to catch the mach http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

yup u just cant go wrong.....................hehehe

Speed is everything you might want to bolt on some precision skiis and maybe add a 1.25 lug track on it as well. http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Wow, I never saw that millenium mach, but man it looks good! *For a Ski-doo that is! *ha ha, just kidding.

2000 and up. *They have a bigger bottom end. http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

Yeah the cops thank you when you stop and pull over.

THere grandtouring 500s just dont have it.


As for the Millenium Mach i saw a few go on sale last year around here. *Maybe i will grab one. *It is awsome.

I think you will get arguments over which year is best, but in my opinion, from 97 to 2000 were good years. *Most h.p. during these years, and the 97 had a hotter ignition, which good tuners loved, however, the 98's had some problems with crankbearings, as did the 97's, but not all. *With the proper mods done, take your pick. *I know the 98's were fast and so were the 97's. *The problem with the 98's were you needed to get the pipes hot before they would rock. * The 97's were set up the best from the factory, but the chassis was said to be slower in the wind tunnel. * I don't know if is true or not. *I had a 2000 Mach Z that was extremely fast and reliable stock. *Of course I added V-Force reeds and PSI pipes, and that sled was unbeatable against the sleds I ran. *Never had a chance to run against Zmachman's 97 Mach, but that thing "rocks" . *So, to make a long story short, any one of the Mach's would be a good decision, if the bugs are gone. * Piece out.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (LadyK @ June 06, 2002, 2:27pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They gotta catch you first Rev http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/devil.gif *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/devil.gif I dont think they will be able to catch the mach http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/b][/quote]
Kind of hard to outrun a radio....UNLESS you
know your suroundings well. * http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

The cops that I saw pinch a guy for blue headlight on his Yamaha were at an intersection with a stop sign. So they&#39;d have you for failing to stop plus Bill 101 has a section about failing to stop and/or fleeing. We had a little "incident" like that a couple of years ago, south of Apsley. The guy didn&#39;t win http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Mikadoo - Could you explain a little more in detail how
or why the bottom end is bigger on 2000 and up? Bigger
crank bearings and/or oiling issues?

Kid rocker - The CK3 is better then the F-chassis
as far as wind resistance?

Just curious guys!
Just haven&#39;t heard that before.

Maluchm, yes according to Ski-Doo it is. *They tested it in the wind tunnel before production of the CK-3 chassis, after the F chassis. *Jamie Bellman could tell you though. *LOL...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (maluchm @ June 07, 2002, 10:14am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (LadyK @ June 06, 2002, 2:27pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They gotta catch you first Rev http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/devil.gif *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/devil.gif I dont think they will be able to catch the mach http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/b][/quote]
Kind of hard to outrun a radio....UNLESS you
know your suroundings well. * http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/b][/quote]
Another reason we all ride 136" http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif The off trail opportunities http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/devil.gif *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif

Last season when I was up there (Hearst, Kap) I noticed that
they patrol heavily on the weekends and use "Volunteers"
for trail enforcement. And it was the voluteers that had
the nice sleds (gad, MXZ, ect.) and could care less about
most things compared to the real fuzz boys. NICE trails up
there but how anyone can only go 50KPH is beyond me. *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Catch me if you can! hehehe *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/devil.gif

Maluchm: Just going by what 2 dealers told me, 00 & up has bigger crank and bearings, so their the best to build.
Went to ronnies to see if the part #&#39;s were different but could&#39;nt get to the micro fish. I have never been into a 809 so I could&#39;nt tell you first hand.......

a Mach Z does NOT enjoy going 50 km/h http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

If there was a sled that could beat raido it would be the Mach.

2000 and up are the only machs I would recommend for a few reasons. *

1. Larger waterpumps allow engine to stay cooler when going slow or speed limited. *This helps with staying cool.

2. *Larger, Stronger Crank and Case, *Make it more reliable and durable.

3. *A way better type of grease is used on the bearings so that even if there is a shortage of oil at times the bearings will stay cool saving you cranks. *

The 2000 and up are in my opinion one of the most reliable rotax engines ever made. *And they start and run so smooth there just awsome.

Nico. *I know what you mean about not liking to go 50. *However for those of you that took this seriously dont. *The mach is like any machine. *it can crawl with the other brands or it can give Chuck Yeager and his X1 a run for its money.

yup my chicken can run 50KM all day long...... but *ist sooooo hard *not to punch it........................hehehehe

I was reading these posts and I was wondering where this information was coming from? * * *

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/withstupid.gif

I know I have been out of the loop for a few months, *but How in the world did I miss all this information.



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Mikadoo, *what two dealers told you, *if I may ask, * "00 & up has bigger crank and bearings"? * *

I would like to contact them and find out what they know that I don&#39;t know. *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/nervous.gif

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Machzzzz1, *Larger waterpumps, *Larger, Stronger Crank and Case, *A way better type of grease is used on the bearings so that even if there is a shortage of oil at times the bearings will stay cool saving you cranks .*http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sarcasm.gif

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I have not heard this information yet either. * Come on guys, *fill me in. * *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

ZMachMan

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Our Mach Z god has spoken!!!! http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Caleb

Tim, you have to get into the new millennium! http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Time to throw out the old and get into the new, hehehe..
The dealers that told me about the cranks are:
Nord-ride motorsports [old flint motorcycle] 810-564-1929
Tom&#39;s cycle, 517-224-8874 might be 989 area now.
Hildebrands down in Coldwater said it too. If you need a triple,
he has shelves full, re-built and ready to go.

There......I have spoken http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sleeping.gif

the mechanic at Cartronics told me the same thing.
he also told me about the grease but i can&#39;t remeber the name of it.
If i&#39;m not mistaken the type of grease is specified in the 2000
Maintenance manual?
The grease will stand up to higher temps with out breaking down and is better in cold temps then the previously used grease.

I&#39;m at work right now so i can&#39;t look it up.

I must be lucky got over 10000 miles on a 779 original crank, bearings and no grease, just oil. Glad *your back Z MAN. Dino http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

i was told somthing along this as well from my dealer....lol i do know that the 2000 does not come with a thermostat and that there is no hose comming of the top of the head (by the stat)

It is called Isoflex grease. * My 2000 came with the bearings packed with it, and oil pump turned up. *I can&#39;t comment on the ones newer than 2000. *Piece out.

I see the listing on the on-line microphish to have the 99
and the 00 809 motor to have the identical part # for the
crank case. Maybe they just changed the parts and didn&#39;t
pull a new # for the newly designed cases! * http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Anybody know where to get on-line microphish for sleds newer
then 2000http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif?

I was looking at SkiDoo.com and see that the 2003 Mach has the hose coming from the head.

no no not the rad hose i ment an overflow hose

machz69, Do you know why the 2000 came with no thermostat? I dam near burnt my sled up on the last trip this year, lots of snow but hard as a rock until the sun softend it up.
Had to make a trip to the dealer for one and all he said was some z&#39;s were running too cold! Come&#39;on, ck-3 chassie since 98 and now they run to cold?? Anyway, now the gauge run&#39;s in the normal range just like all my other doo&#39;s have and the rest of the weekend was great..

*P.S. when the temp gauge starts in the red, SHUT IT OFF!! http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/nervous.gif

After Extensive research today, *and I mean Extensive!, *here are the results!

I have in my shop, * a set of Cases for 1997 809. * I also, *Just happen to have a re-built crank for a 2000 809. *Guess what boys, * There isn&#39;t any difference! *The 2000 re-manufactured Crank slid into the 97 cases, * like peanut butter and jelly! * I then called where I get my Re-manufactured Cranks, *and the 97 to 2000 have the same part number! * *The only difference, *is the addition of Iso-Flex Grease to the bearing, *which all new Re-man-Cranks now come with, *which is what KidRocker said.

In addition, *water pumps are the same, *not larger, not smaller. * *The difference in the cooling system, *is the deletion of the Thermostat&#39;s and the return hose from the head to the bottle. * As many of you have noticed the newer motors do not have thermostat&#39;s or the return hose. *

So I guess, this old man, *was in the new millennium after all. * *

Hey Dino, It was great to hear from you again! *Maybe we both need to post more and dust off some of our, "Old" information.

Tim: the cranks you have are probably the same but one of them is not right and I can show you why--97Mach Z has the sealed end PTO Isoflex grease bearings and the part # is 420-887-605, PTO rod is Part# 420-887-603 Mag and Cntr rod kit is 420-887-664 for a 2000 crank the Part # is 420-887-668 PTO rod is Part# 420-887-663 Centr and Mag rod kit is 420-887-664. The difference being is that the PTO Rod Kit for a 2000 has a longer bottom pin and thicker thrust washers and therefore if you have the two right cranks the 2000 crank is longer than the 97 crank. Also a 97 Crank and case are the same demensions as a 93 through 96 779 except for the seal locations and the bearing rings in a 97 are not in the older 779 cases. Hope this ends any confusion about cranks. *-- *bill

Well this conversation sure stirred up a hornets nest http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/exclamation.gif

Doo I dare ask WHY the thermostat was removed http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/withstupid.gif

Bill,

Then why are the rebuilt crank order numbers *the same, *from *97 to 2000 on the 809&#39;s?http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif? * *

Tim

hehehe i thought it was something like that... uhm but as far as your sled heating up cause no thermostat dont make sence. the job os the stat is to not open till the engine hits the desired temp. the it opens and will stay open till it cools below that temp.why they told me was to eleminate cold seize. *it will run cooler with no stat.

I found a 98 Mach Z on Ebay. Turns out its 15 miles away from my house.Looks in good shape,but has a blown engine.I think the bidding was at about $1350. Anybody have an engine lying around ? * http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

From Ski Doo the rebuilt crank numbers are different for those years, maybe not from the shop you deal with, I don&#39;t know Tim. Just to demonstrate the difference is if you put a crankshaft from a 97 - 809 motor in a 98 and up case the seal is in the end of the motor quite a bit from the end and then when you install the clutch it will come in contact with the case because the end of the crank isn&#39;t out of the case far enough. Time the only difference is the PTO rod kit and that is what sets the end of the crank out farther for the 98 and up case other than the rod kit the cranks are the same. *Bill

Bill, *so then what you are saying, *and correct me if I am wrong, *is the 97 is different, *but the 98 through 2002 are the same cranks? * Is this Correct?

Yup Tim the 98 through 2002 are the same overall length cranks. *-- *Bill

Isoflex grease is what i was talking about ZMan. *as for the waterpump. *Someone working at my dealer told me this.

machz69, believe me, any liquid cooled engine will heat up without a thermostat. The reason they do is because the antifreeze passes thru so quickly it does&#39;nt have enough time to cool properly. I proved it by installing a thermostat and the problem was elimated......

Back in the day when I was drag racing I tried the no stat. idea and the same problem occured there too, even a alcohol stat. let the fluid pass to fast.

So what year machs have t-states and what year machs dont.

I thought they all had them.

so let me gt this right... if u have a stat in it will hold the coolant back and cool it down..?..hmmmm so if your stat opens at lets just say i dont know.. say 30* to start flowing . and now its open and somehow it closes around 50* to cool the cooloant???. once the stat opens at 30* it has to cool below 30* before it will close. so how could your stat wide open in the summer keep the engine cooler?http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif??? http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

I think the thinking is that the stat restrics the flow even at wide open allowing more time in the exchangers. *I heard this from a few people. *

It does make sence.

Thermostats 101:
The job of a thermostat is to regulate the temperature of an to operate within a certain range. A thermostat is closed when cold to make the engine warm up to its desired temperature faster. At the calibrated temperature the stat opens to allow cooling to occur until the closing temperaure is met, then it closes and the cycle starts again. An engine won&#39;t overheat without a thermostat unless there are other problems. Ask anyone to drive their vehicle cross country in the winter without a stat and when they thaw out, they will tell you the engine didn&#39;t overheat.

Yeah but doo pilot. *I also heard that the coolent needs to be slowed down to allow snow to hit the exchangers and cool it down. * If it is just getting pushed through you dont get the cooling you need.

Thermostats 102:
(I ran out of time on the original post.) The reason for removing a thermostat in a grass drag or asphalt racing situation is to make the cool down cart more effective. When the cold coolant reaches the t-stat it closes and prevents cold coolant from freely flowing through the system increasing the time it takes to cool the engine. If time is of no concern, you can leave the t-stat in but most races don&#39;t allow extensive cool down time. *
Next topic, overheat when riding on "cement" snow. This is caused by no snow contacting the heat exchangers just like driving one in the summer (except watercrossers). When the snow warms up, it can break apart enough to be thrown up on the heat exchangers and allow cooling to take place. This condition has nothing to do with thermostats.

doopilot, You are correct about a CAR never reaching it&#39;s full temp in the WINTER without a stat. But, a CAR also has a RADITOR and a FAN helping it cool. Unlike a sled, it has just a heat exchanger to rely on.
If the snow conditions are crummy [like usual] a sled has a much harder time regulating it&#39;s temp without a stat. I understand removing the stat for drag racing is a MUST so you can force cold water thru the system but we are not talking about racing 500&#39; all day.
If you have nothing there to control the flow all you have is coolant running wild with NO time to properly cool down.
Yes, if the snow is cement hard, stat or no stat makes no difference but I have had way better results for a wider range of conditions with the stat in.............IMO

So, what would be the best year to purchase.I myself like the Mike Houle sled for its looks. I guess to be on top off all the latest technology the 2003 Mach would be the one to get, espetially if its the last production year,which I think it will be.

OK, one last explanation. My point was to explain that "any liquid cooled engine will heat up without a thermostat." is not true in itself. All conditions being EQUAL, any engine without a thermostat will on average, run colder and have wider temperature swings than an engine with a thermostat. That&#39;s why I would prefer to have a thermostat so temperature and engine performance remain more consistent. When a thermostat is open, it has little effect on flow UNLESS an engineer specifies X amount of restriction. Regulating flow rate also involves water pump size/speed and passage sizes. If an engine without a thermostat is overheating, it&#39;s NOT because coolant is passing through too quickly. Either snow/water/air is not able to transfer enough heat from the heat exchanger(airflow blocked from a radiator), there&#39;s a system restriction internally(multiple causes), a bad water pump, or an engineering oversight(too small of components for use conditions). I&#39;m not meaning to offend anyone through this post. My purpose is to just present the most accurate information my training and experiences afford me. *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sleeping.gif

Machzzzz1 is right when it comes to thermostats......in SOME applications. In some cases the coolant can move through a system without a thermostat too quickly not letting it cool properly causing overheating or inconsistency in engine temp. Of course in some applications removing the thermostat will work just fine, maybe even better than with a thermostat. Always be very careful when doing this, if the vehicle in question has a bypass type thermostat and it is removed, plent of coolant will go through the Radiator(s) but it will not circulate through the engine completely, or it may only recirculate in the engine and not through the radiator(s) in a significant volume to cool it down enough. It may sound corny to some of you, but I have seen it a few times before, as I worked in and used to own a Radiator shop for a combination of 14 years. If you are making changes like this do some background on the subject, and monitor results carefully. My two cents.

well i agree with doopilot. i have taken my stats out of all my race sleds in summer. they have always ran cooler. as far as my machz it only heated up once on me and that was when i was pulling a cat back in a little bunny trail. rolling about 5-10km other then that no probs.

the reason the car with out a "stat" does not overheat is because the coolant is passing through the engine so fast it does not pick up any of the heat and carry it away,all temp gauges I have ever seen read coolant temp not head or block temp.I cut the valve out of the stat thus allowing free flow and and restricting it to slow coolant down allowing it to pull the heat out.if your coolant is not getting hot you&#39;re not removing the heat from the block and head(s).this can go on and on but I was shown in a race engine years ago that there are hot spots that occur inside the engine if your not cooling it properly never showing on temp gauge because the coolant never slowed enough to soak the heat.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (doopilot @ June 14, 2002, 08:18am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Thermostats 101:
The job of a thermostat is to regulate the temperature of an to operate within a certain range. A thermostat is closed when cold to make the engine warm up to its desired temperature faster. At the calibrated temperature the stat opens to allow cooling to occur until the closing temperaure is met, then it closes and the cycle starts again. An engine won&#39;t overheat without a thermostat unless there are other problems. Ask anyone to drive their vehicle cross country in the winter without a stat and when they thaw out, they will tell you the engine didn&#39;t overheat.[/b][/quote]
If the water gets to warm because of to fast flow, i would say the waterpump is the problem.

Norwegian