which patern do you guys think works best when using 240 studs for aggressive trail riding? i would really love to see some pictures of how 240 studs look in a track and where i could get a template.

how much hp you have? more studs isnt always better. i like the double backers. i prefer diaganal lines as oppsed to v style. it spreads the load more evenly. mike

I think you will be disappointed with that many studs. The sled is going to be 'stuck' to the trail, causing some awkward moments in the corners. It's going to want to high side on you easily, rather than slide. Also will want to push. Most guys find that 96-144 work well, and put them all in the center. Studs in the outer belts will pull through easier, and contribute to the 'stuck' feeling in the corners.

Templates are easily found wherever you find the studs. If you are sold on running over 200 studs, go for it, you can always start pulling them until you get it to handle right later on. Or you could start with the 96-144 and add as needed....

Originally posted by michahicks@Oct 31 2004, 08:56 AM
I think you will be disappointed with that many studs. The sled is going to be 'stuck' to the trail, causing some awkward moments in the corners. It's going to want to high side on you easily, rather than slide. Also will want to push. Most guys find that 96-144 work well, and put them all in the center. Studs in the outer belts will pull through easier, and contribute to the 'stuck' feeling in the corners.

Templates are easily found wherever you find the studs. If you are sold on running over 200 studs, go for it, you can always start pulling them until you get it to handle right later on. Or you could start with the 96-144 and add as needed....
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I put 168 in my xc 3 years ago..... had a lot of pull outs in the outer edge , turned like a streached limo .... the only thing it did well was stop on ice... mind you I said stop, it still spun the track like crazy. I replaced the track with a 1.25" with 96 in woody double backer, this combo is about 80% as much bite on ice and 150% more on snow! so this summer I did a 136 x 1.25" ripsaw with 108 studs in my prox , should hook really hard!

Originally posted by MMPROX800@Oct 30 2004, 02:49 PM
which patern do you guys think works best when using 240 studs for aggressive trail riding? i would really love to see some pictures of how 240 studs look in a track and where i could get a template.
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Dude,
You are going to be so dissapointed in the top end performance LOSS with that many studs. A generall rule of thumb is 1 stud per HP for performance trail riding. You are also going to loose about 7-10 mph on top speed, because you are going to be adding about 23 lbs of rotating, hp robbing mass. Go with 168, or a max of 192 if you really want to be flipping the sled over backwards from holeshot launching. That many studs takes a serious toll on all your related drivetrain and track components. Every extra stud you add raises the probability of a stud pullout. IMO 144 studs, studded down the center belt only, is the best all around compramise of excellent traction, maintaining hp levels, durability, and drivetrain relibility.

Did anyone mention that's way too many studs?

I've got 144 down the middle on both mine.

so you guys think 192? heres why i am so hesitant to do 144... i had a 600xcsp last year it was clutched geared gutted air box tuned real good. it had 144 studs with studs on out side of track every other row. it was the woodys pattern 4-2-4-2. when i lined up in the fields or on the lake it just sat there and spun like crazy. now with the 800 having a lot more horses i dont know what to do.

A sled set up for aggressive trail riding is going to be a compromise on ice at best.
Not just in the number of studs you are running, weight transfer settings are going to be a big part of your problem too.

Your right, the 800 will light up 192 studs like they weren't there on a hole shot on ice.

Your set up to do both as well as possible is going to be all about compromise.

Ditto on compromise. You can't have it all. Your spinning on holeshot needs to be dealt with on other levels other than just studs. Clutching, Gears.
The contact surface has SOOO much to do with traction and it varies constantly.
I set my sleds up for maximum fun on hardpack and sometimes I actually see hardpack. Mostly its loose snow or ice or everthing else. My buddy once whipped us all on ice. His WIFES 500 was the smallest CC sled in the group and he did it over and over. BUT on the trails at sustained speeds and rolling acceleration he could not keep up. Same across the lake. We all have studs but that is seldon the main factor. Of course you could go bonzo and get ice picks. Those will hook you up but won't last on the trails.

Thought more about this, started writing and it turned into a book. There is just a ton of other stuff to consider with this compromise thing, but the track studding still comes down to one thing. The number of studs you run, and where they are placed on the track, will control how well your sled is going to do in a corner. Nearly the exact same statement can be made regarding your holeshot. The only thing the 2 setups share is the studding in the center belt. 144 should work good there.

I haven't messed with the doublers, but intend to on my next stud job because I've heard a lot of good about them. Wondering now what a 192 pattern, using doublers, would look like in the center belt, and how it might work when stuffed into a corner? That is something I HAVEN'T tried, but may work well in a compromise. Well enough where it may not be a compromise?

I guess I'm game enough to try it, hopefully this winter. If somebody else tries it, or has, I hope they'll share what they learn.

mhicks, ill get a pick for you when my top secret nuts come in. thats what im waiting for. mike