DES MOINES (AP) - A motorcyclist from Ames was killed when he lost control of his cycle in an arenacross race, an indoor race on a specially designed dirt track, at Veterans Memorial Auditorium.



Brandon Duncan-Olsen, 20, was in a qualifying heat when he lost control of his cycle on an obstacle section of the course on Sunday. His chest struck the handlebars, said Daniel Kiefer, who promotes Iowa motocross and arenacross racers through a Web site.

Polk County Medical Examiner Gregory Schmunk said Duncan-Olsen died of a lacerated aorta caused by the impact to his chest. A chest protector might have prevented the fatality, he said.

Several thousand people attended the three-day National Arenacross Series event at the auditorium. Professional racers competed Friday and Saturday. Amateurs raced Sunday :(

I'm going to add that to my Christmas list. I've always thought about buying one ,but now that i'm a dad, it's definently time to do everything possible to be sure I come home from these trips.

for racing we can only use tek-vest or similar chest protection also they check for shin guards which i never ride without, but i think for just normal riding a moto-cross chest protector would work just fine.

Got my Tek Vest this year.Also got mirrors& want to get heated shield anything for safety.dont drink & drive is safest too

I should look into one also, my handle bar does not have a pad. I'll be heading to the Motorsports show this weekend in Minneapolis, I'll have to check them out.

I'm not as young as I think I am!!!

Isnt when racing, isnt wearing a chest pad and other things manditory?
Hopefully! But some people dont need them cause there not racing!
But it would be better of safe then unsafe!
SWRules

I race atvs in the off season.I caught a rut on a berm and got thrown over the handlebars when the bike snapped sideways and tossed me.I hit my chest on the throttle assembly and it was very sore for a month or more.It was just a deep bruise but I never raced without a chest protector again.

Two years ago, there were two riders running in front of our group. A curve surprised the riders and they went straight off. The first rider made it through it. The second not so lucky. He died of chest injuries on the trail after a 2 hour fight.

We don't know if a chest protector would have saved his life. But the chances are great enough that four of the 9 guys riding in our group that weekend are now wearing protective gear.

I was worried that it would be too hot or uncomfortable. Not at all. I only notice it until I hit the throttle one time. I don't notice it the rest of the day. I actually feel a bit uneasy riding without it now.

The answer to your question? Yes!

Originally posted by ridered79@Nov 10 2004, 05:16 PM
for racing we can only use tek-vest or similar chest protection also they check for shin guards which i never ride without, but i think for just normal riding a moto-cross chest protector would work just fine.
362219


I use my Fox MX chest protector under my oversize jacket whenever I plan to go big but sometimes I get lazy and leave it at home - thanks for the reminder; that's a sad story. Remember to wear a kidney belt too, that combo has held me together after many a "mishap". Also you can get Fox shin guards for under $15 now.

G MAN

Originally posted by Flyguy@Nov 10 2004, 08:12 PM
Isnt when racing, isnt wearing a chest pad and other things manditory?
Hopefully! But some people dont need them cause there not racing!
But it would be better of safe then unsafe!
SWRules
362334


i thought it would be reqired, too.

As an MD, I hate to inform that a chest protector most certainly won't prevent an Aortic Root rupture. It certainly will help with bumps or bruises, but during the sudden deceleration of your chest hitting the handlebars, the heart inside the mediastinum continues forward, until a stopping force is applied to it. Unfortuantely the root of the Aorta is thethered and as the heart moves the force is transmitted through the Aorta. This is a very frequent cause of on the scene death in sudden deceleration injuries to the chest.

I Just started back "into" sleds. I ride Motocross and quads. I never get on them without one....but I never thought of wearing one on a sled. I am not sure mine would fit under or over my suit. good question / thought.

however a chest protector would distribute the forces more so than not????
and i believe if the rolls are reversed and you are laying on your back not in motion and the sled lands on you ,the protector distributes the load. that and they are a great defender of studs penetrating your bod. just buy one and have fun ridding. think of it as an helmet for your heart,lung,etc, etc.

I don't want to scare or discourage safety equipment, but I also don't want people to think with a helmet and chest protector they can take undue risk as they are protected agaisnt catastrophic injury.

Again, it may distribute a load, preventing bumps, bruises, rib fractues etc. at the point of impact, but a deceleration injury isn't prevented or modified by a chest protector as it's not the result of direct blunt trauma, but rather rapid deceleration of the chest. The only way to prevent these types of injuries is to slow the rate of deceleration. As the heart continues moving (everyone review basic physics here, what is in motion remains in motion, until a force is applied to it), the tethered Aorta transmits the force of decleration and is frequently sheared.

Collisions have 3 impacts. 1) Vehicle impacting solid object 2) Body hitting object/restraints 3) Organs inside body hitting surrounding musculoskeltal structure

We all know helmets work to prevent closed head injuries by slowing the deceleartion. The helmet strikes an object, the skull then still in motion collapses the foam inside the hard outer shell and therefore decelerates slower than the helmet, so when the brain inside the skull strikes the bony skull less injury occurs. This is also why buying a used helmet is so risky as the outside shell may appear fine, but the condition of the vital internal foam padding that actually does the saftey work is difficult to #####.

I used to have a false sense of security because I wore protective gear , I still managed a brain injury and broken ribs w/ helmet and chest protector . Doc is right the sudden stop is brutal . I guess it could have been worse , I'm fully functional , but paranoid of reinjury . Seisures suck !!

Originally posted by feldme@Nov 13 2004, 12:24 PM
I don't want to scare or discourage safety equipment, but I also don't want people to think with a helmet and chest protector they can take undue risk as they are protected agaisnt catastrophic injury.

Again, it may distribute a load, preventing bumps, bruises, rib fractues etc. at the point of impact, but a deceleration injury isn't prevented or modified by a chest protector as it's not the result of direct blunt trauma, but rather rapid deceleration of the chest. The only way to prevent these types of injuries is to slow the rate of deceleration. As the heart continues moving (everyone review basic physics here, what is in motion remains in motion, until a force is applied to it), the tethered Aorta transmits the force of decleration and is frequently sheared.

Collisions have 3 impacts. 1) Vehicle impacting solid object 2) Body hitting object/restraints 3) Organs inside body hitting surrounding musculoskeltal structure

We all know helmets work to prevent closed head injuries by slowing the deceleartion. The helmet strikes an object, the skull then still in motion collapses the foam inside the hard outer shell and therefore decelerates slower than the helmet, so when the brain inside the skull strikes the bony skull less injury occurs. This is also why buying a used helmet is so risky as the outside shell may appear fine, but the condition of the vital internal foam padding that actually does the saftey work is difficult to #####.
363058


You know...I don't think that there is anyone that has responded to this thread that believes that a Tek-Vest is a force field of some kind that allows us to just jump off the sled at any given time and slam into a 150 year old oak tree without getting hurt.

I believe that I stated in my first post that we don't know if a vest would have helped the guy that was killed on the trail or not. The whole point was that if there is a possibility that it will help in a crash, why not wear it? I drive no differently with it on or off. I feel more secure with it on, but that cerainly doesn't mean that I'm going to drive irrationally.

Just curious feldme...do you think that there is a situation where a Tek-Vest would help a rider to avoid injury? I sounds like you think it's a waste of money.

I dont have a tek-vest, but im gonna buy one.

think of a seat belt in a car, they protect you from getting thrown from a vehicle and getting crushed, do they protect you from all other impact injuries,NO! whenever you ride no matter what how safe you think you are, accidents happen!so ride safe, have fun and use common sensebut realize you can't control everything! grass drags are done i'm bummin!

I just bought one a month ago. Hopefully I never have to test it out, but it will be nice for a little security.

think I am gonna follow Jeffs lead and pick one up also,,,, sure hope you never need it, but if you do, really glad to have it!!!

It's not just the sudden stop type of ingryies, a Tech Vest will also prevent being impaled by tree limbs, handle bars, slow down spinning studs, carbides, etc. All flaggers MUST wear one when flagging at a corner in the CSRA. NO Personal is allowed on the track including photographers, video guys, (announcers) with out a Tech Vest. They are worth every bit. I wear mine when I am out trail riding on the ATV.

Dave. :christmas:

which tekvests do people have and like most for trail riding. NOT RACING. I was looking at both the supersport or the Trail Pro.

Any feedback on either of these?

I think my tekvest has saved me from broken ribs for sure that thing is wonderful!

The doc and many of you all make valid points...

From the research side.....

No vest mfg. for snowmobiling/snocross is designed for a high velocity/rapid deceleration impact. In the event of a high velocity crash, at best, a vest will widen the gray zone in the "maybe" situation.

Tested the vests available at an A2LA lab (for the engineers) against a vest designed/made to an ASTM mfg. standard. Ethically, all I can say is that the ASTM vest out performed by a logrhythmically wide margin the most commonly talked about vest on this string. The cheaper substitute out of Wisconsin was on par with that vest. The competitor from Massasauga (sorry if it is mis-spelled) was superior and that is what I would want as they also mfg. ASTM standard body protectors.

Medicine Man

Freeze, hope you are doing well.....

Originally posted by medicine man@Nov 19 2004, 12:05 AM
The doc and many of you all make valid points...

From the research side.....

No vest mfg. for snowmobiling/snocross is designed for a high velocity/rapid deceleration impact. In the event of a high velocity crash, at best, a vest will widen the gray zone in the "maybe" situation.

Tested the vests available at an A2LA lab (for the engineers) against a vest designed/made to an ASTM mfg. standard.* Ethically, all I can say is that the ASTM vest out performed by a logrhythmically wide margin the* most commonly talked about vest on this string.* The cheaper substitute out of Wisconsin was on par with that vest. The competitor from Massasauga (sorry if it is mis-spelled) was superior and that is what I would want as they also mfg. ASTM standard body protectors.

Medicine Man

Freeze, hope you are doing well.....

365165


Well in that case, what was the name of the manufacturer of the vest that you would want? there are so many manufacturers of vests that it will be hard for us to decipher exactly which one you are talking about

here is a link to some of the safety standard info and the manufacturer in Mississauga
http://www.phoenixperformance.com/safety.htm

Nothing mentioned after a quick glance about the sled vests

available at
www.sledpro.com

Originally posted by doo rider@Nov 18 2004, 08:04 PM
which tekvests do people have and like most for trail riding.* NOT RACING.* I was looking at both the supersport or the Trail Pro.

Any feedback on either of these?
365050

Ive tried them both on & they are about the same once you have them on.SS is a little easer to get on & has 4 pockets.I got the trail pro it has 2 pockets,without the zipper should protect better.Both are good for trail.

Originally posted by medicine man@Nov 19 2004, 12:05 AM
The doc and many of you all make valid points...

From the research side.....

No vest mfg. for snowmobiling/snocross is designed for a high velocity/rapid deceleration impact. In the event of a high velocity crash, at best, a vest will widen the gray zone in the "maybe" situation.

Tested the vests available at an A2LA lab (for the engineers) against a vest designed/made to an ASTM mfg. standard.* Ethically, all I can say is that the ASTM vest out performed by a logrhythmically wide margin the* most commonly talked about vest on this string.* The cheaper substitute out of Wisconsin was on par with that vest. The competitor from Massasauga (sorry if it is mis-spelled) was superior and that is what I would want as they also mfg. ASTM standard body protectors.

Medicine Man


365165


well according to there website, the snowmobile vests are not ASTM approved, they show a list of all the approved vests and certifications and discipline that they are used for and snowmobile is not on that list.

Allow me to clarify,
There are no ASTM approved vests made for snowmobiling of any type/discipline. A company that makes snowmobile vests also makes ASTM approved torso protectors for horse sports. The samples I tested from that company that were designated for snocross were superior in terms of attenuating blunt impact.

Originally posted by medicine man@Nov 19 2004, 08:56 PM
Allow me to clarify,
There are no ASTM approved vests made for snowmobiling of any type/discipline. A company that makes snowmobile vests also makes ASTM approved torso protectors for horse sports. The samples I tested from that company that were designated for snocross were superior in terms of attenuating blunt impact.
365454


thanks for that clarification. I am still researching these, as I have been riding for 20yrs and never owned one or even thought about it until recently. I just want to make sure that if/when I do purchase one, it will do what it is meant to do. Limit the possibility and/or consequences of certain injuries.

As merely the messenger of reality, I have certianly acknowledged the value of protective equipment preventing bumps, bruises, scrapes, possibly rib fractures (already stretching things there) but I don't think that's why people buy them.... I am really not all that concerned with any of the above injuries. They won't land you in the ICU for 6 months trached, tubed, on a vent, puffed up like the michelin man or DOA.

Anyway, I think if people want to wear them great, but an informed consumer is obviously the best consumer. So don't get all hot and botehred because I am informing the public of the limitations of safety equipment.

My take on safety is simple. 1) Don't drink. Everyone says they don't but 70% of accidents are alcohol related so apparently many do 2) My personal experience from caring for injured at the hospital and asking them about the accident as I have an obvious interest in the field are they are usually riding older equipment than they're buddies and therefore riding over their head in an attempt to keep up with better handling more modern machines--so ride with a group of people with similar equipment, riding skill 3) Non-heated visors, you spent 10 grand on the sled and otehr equipment, pony up the $80 and get a heated shield so you can see where the hell you're going

As it stands the drive to the drop point if you have to trailer is probably still the most dangerous part of sledding, so it's all relative. Anyway, thats enough of me rambling and getting way off topic.

Originally posted by feldme@Nov 25 2004, 08:03 PM
As merely the messenger of reality, I have certianly acknowledged the value of protective equipment preventing bumps, bruises, scrapes, possibly rib fractures (already stretching things there) but I don't think that's why people buy them....


How about back injuries cased by a blunt blow directly to the spinal cord?
This hasn't been mentioned in this entire thread and in my opinion is one of the primary reasons for wearing a good vest. (I know a guy in a wheelchair because this exact scenario when things went bad on a sled).
Feldme, you sound like the kind of guy that doesn't wear a helmet when riding a street bike. Do you? ...... or if you've never owned a bike, WOULD you wear a helmet if you did?

What many here are failing to acknowledge is that there are MAJOR differences between a forceful blow to the body when the body is static, and a sudden deceleration injury.

The mechanism of injury and therefore the prevention strategy are very different. Blunt force is simply that. A force applied large enough to cause soft tissue and boney injury. It can be eliminated by distrubuting the force to the point where the force exerted does not reach the threshold to damage tissue. A deceleration injury is caused by rapid decleration, and if you read the posts above involves 3 impacts. The ONLY way to prevent a decleration injury is to SLOW the deceleration.

A vest of some sort will ABSOLUTELY distribute and minimize injury from a forceful blow on a static object. Such as being punched in the chest, stepped on by a horse, horned by a bull, sled running you over when you're down etc etc.

What a vest will not help, and as verified by someone who tests vests mentioned above is that they are not designed, and have no tested proof of making a sudden decelleration injury less severe.

This will be my last post as rather than learn/understand the physics and biomechanics associated with a crash people would rather rant and rave about there uncles sisters brithers inlaws pet and waht happened to them.

And of course I would wear a helmet, and no I won't ride a street bike as they're simply too dangerous with all the horrible drivers. I prefer to perform organ transplants rather than being the donor.

A helmet is designed to BOTH distribute blunt/sharp forces, AND slow deceleration via the interior padding/foam, arguably the much more important part of a helmet not the outer shell, if you would have read my above post discussing helmets and used helmets. The inner padding and the inability to verify it's condition is the reason you should NEVER buy a used helmet!

It's a personal choice, as I've said. I was simply responding with biomechanical fact to the the orginal posted statement from the medical examiner.

konkinj,
Spinal injuries that can be attributed directly to an isolated blow to the spine are extremly rare.
The mechanism of a spinal injury is either forced flexion such as having your butt in the seat when coming down from a jump or your chest hitting the handlebars. An extension injury occurrs when you are bent sideways or backwards (such as hitting a tree).
No vest made can prevent this type of mechanism from happening! That is not what they are designed for.
FME is correct, you hope the vest slows down the entire system enough so what you are made of can compensate for what force gets through.

With the interest in this topic, maybe a chat room time could be set aside to address other questions? Comments ?