will buying a performance can give me any extra power or anything other than a nice sound and is it worth buying one??are the plastic skies better than ski skins or are they the same? any info would be appreciated.

I beleive a can will give you maybe 3 or so HP. They mainly are lighter than stock so that is a good benefit and yes some are louder but I think most just prefera better tonal change for the aggressive sound. Especially with all the people after us for the noise.

Plastic skis are going to be better than skins. Again it is a weight issue as well as flexibility and performance. If you can afford skis then do that, so you aren't just adding weight to the steel skis. I have friends that have done both and always end up just getting skis.

I tried skins on the steel skis of my 90 Mach 1 & the steering was horrible. Go w/ the plastic skis if possible.

Ski skins will make your steel skis quieter on hard pack / icey trails but will kill your front end bite in the corners. Save your dough towards a set of plastic skis.............you'll love the difference.
As for your can idea, PLEASE DON'T DO IT!!! In most / all cases it'll slow yer sled down but even worse is the fact that it will become beyond annoying for all those around you. The only benefit I can see to them is the weight savings.

Rick

Cans are best if you need lighter weight like out here in powder where we never sled in the vicinity of a residence (up in the mountains). They will give you about 3hp but not unless you've done reeds and TPI valves to help improve airflow on the intake side. They will make zero difference without (except for the noise!).

Ski skins work GREAT on steel skis but ONLY if you put on larger diameter wear bars (like the 1/2" Woody's or the Shaper bars) to improve lateral resistance. Then the only big difference with straight plastic skis would be the weight and price issues. I have the Woody's 1/2" and skins on my '87 Yamaha and it rocks!

Have Fun,

G MAN

Remember, a 2 stroke exhaust is much more critical to torque that what you think.

The design and power in the exhaust comes from the pipe itself, and not the silencer. it's job is just to quiet it down. Flow is the enemy in a 2 stroke exhaust. Yea, on a dyno, in a controlled environment, you may gain 1 or 2 peak HP, but they do not tell you that you loose as much as 15ft lbs of torque on the bottom end! Seen it time and time again, where folks loose torque when adding a silencer.

An old trick used on the 583 and 670, and later on the 700 and 800s, was to weld in a reducer into the end of the pipe to give more charge directed back into the engine. Adds a good bit of out of the hole torque, for just a couple of bucks.

This is not taking into account the whole trail noise/ trail closure issue.

Like Brad Hullings at HRP told me awhile back when I asked him about silencers. "If you don't have to re-jet it, it isn't making more power"

<<<If you don&#39;t have to re-jet it, it isn&#39;t making more power>>>

That would be rejet RICHER, not leaner, for those considering this idea for the first time.

In plain english, cans don&#39;t make power. As far as weight is concerned, still a poor excuse for all but maybe those racing. The amount we are talking about is about the same as a gallon of gas - or less. Cans are about noise. Argue all you want, but don&#39;t talk about weight or power advantages for 99.9 percent of all those using them.

some very interesting replies,,, I actually like the tone of some of them, but I myself dont want them too loud,,,, I know some guys on here talk about being able to ride all day without passing anything so the noise isnt an issue,,,, where I am from, it is,,,, so I dont have the luxury

skip the skins, go with the skis,,,, you will get more bang for the buck with this than the can,,,,

>>Yea, on a dyno, in a controlled environment, you may gain 1 or 2 peak HP, but they do not tell you that you loose as much as 15ft lbs of torque on the bottom end!<<

That reminds me of the responses I saw on Doo Talk when someone asked about the red adjuster screws on the RAVE&#39;s. All the flatlanders said "LEAVE THEM ALONE! (all the way in)" but the guy asking was from Montana and finally a guy from Idaho tells him what he needed: All the Doo guys turn them out flush with the top cap for mountain riding which is the correct answer. When you do that you change the exhaust port timing to add peak HP at the expense of low end torque. That would be a bad thing for flatlander trail riders but a great thing for lake racers or mountain riders who benefit more at the top end. As we go up in altitude, we lose compression so peak HP is WAY more important! While a can is useless for most Midwesterners, it is very useful for us out here for both peak HP and weight savings. Is it any wonder why some of the more successful makers are located out here??? SLP and PPP are both in neighboring Idaho!!!

Bottom Line: What works for your neck of the woods may not be what&#39;s best in everyone else&#39;s!

Happy Holidays,

G MAN

PS - You don&#39;t need to re-jet when using cans because stock sleds already come overly rich from the makers to prevent warranty burn-downs when riding at very low temps.
PSS - There is a BIG difference in noise from a race can to a trail can. The latter is not much louder than a stock can, just a different tone but I still wouldn&#39;t own one if I had to ride in any residential areas.

I agree go with the ski&#39;s.

If you make more power with a can swap it is usually at the cost of low end power. Also the peak power is usually in a narrower band. You will have to clutch it for that new peak to get the most out of it.

Plus loud is cool for about a minute. Drive it for a few hours and you might change your mind.

<<<PS - You don&#39;t need to re-jet when using cans because stock sleds already come overly rich from the makers to prevent warranty burn-downs when riding at very low temps.>>>

Gman,
For the sake of a good conversation, you have a valid point regarding the weight savings. However, mountain use is still going to involve a fairly narrow segment of usage in the grand scheme of things - similar to those actually racing.

I was also assuming that we were adding a can to a machine allready jetted for conditions it&#39;s normally run in. If we add our can at that point, IF it were actually making significant power, we would need to richen our jetting.

It doesn&#39;t, so we won&#39;t.

99% of the outside world would rather have 10ftlbs of torque, than 2 hp on top.

The work of the wxhaust is done by the time the exhaust reaches the silencer.

Take a look at race and mountain mod pipes. They have a much reduced diamater compared to a stock pipe on the same sled. It is cause it will send more pulse and compression back to the engine.

And as far as how a silencern effects jetting, I have tried both a MBRP trail and "the thing" on my 2001 MXZ800. I have datalogging EGTs on that sled, and I would run the stock can, the MBRP and the thing one right after another. Switching from stock, both cans would drop EGT temps (less effecient, more RICH) and loose 200 RPM (Less HP)


There are some manufacturers making silencers that will proide a weight gain, but they advertise no HP gain. SLP, Bender, etc.. just to name a few.

Originally posted by SW Tech Editor@Dec 17 2004, 01:24 PM
And as far as how a silencern effects jetting, I have tried both a MBRP trail and "the thing" on my 2001 MXZ800. I have datalogging EGTs on that sled, and I would run the stock can, the MBRP and the thing one right after another. Switching from stock, both cans would drop EGT temps (less effecient, more RICH) and loose 200 RPM (Less HP)
There are some manufacturers making silencers that will proide a weight gain, but they advertise no HP gain. SLP, Bender, etc.. just to name a few.
376516


That brings up another very good point: MBRP&#39;s have never done well in tests showing a drop in HP and torque in every test I&#39;ve seen yet they&#39;re the most popular ones and the ones everyone seems to base their can opinions on (especially midwest and east coast sledders since MBRP is in Ontario)&#33;!! Sled Tech magazine did a nice test and found the MBRP to be the worst. The SLP to provide little gain and the PPP product showed definite improvements. Just like pipe design, all cans are not created equal.

Originally posted by michahicks@Dec 17 2004, 01:06 PM
<<<PS - You don&#39;t need to re-jet when using cans because stock sleds already come overly rich from the makers to prevent warranty burn-downs when riding at very low temps.>>>

Gman,
For the sake of a good conversation, you have a valid point regarding the weight savings. However, mountain use is still going to involve a fairly narrow segment of usage in the grand scheme of things - similar to those actually racing.

I was also assuming that we were adding a can to a machine allready jetted for conditions it&#39;s normally run in. If we add our can at that point, IF it were actually making significant power, we would need to richen our jetting.

It doesn&#39;t, so we won&#39;t.
376509


Hey Michahicks,

The thing is cans don&#39;t make significant power: 2-3 HP max so theoretically would need only slightly richer. Most single pipes make only 5-8 HP more and you only go up one jet size. Furthermore, not all performance gains mean an increase in jet size (I used to think so too). Reeds make the fuel charge more efficient and plenty of folks have dyno data showing a 1-2 HP gain by installing reeds and DROPPING the mains 2 sizes (Boyesen recommends 1-3 sizes smaller). Just ask Bill Cudney or anyone else that tunes with a dyno to the track.

How is the weather looking in Waterford? Are you riding local yet? In my younger years there we&#39;d be out riding this time of year for sure!

Have a great Holiday Season,

G MAN

Waterford is currently 26 degrees. Lakes are all open water. Less than 2 inches of snow in my yard.

Gman,
Pontiac lake is frozen, as are some others, but they are just starting to skin over. Northern lower will have some extra tracks due to my presence before the night is over.... thanks for asking. How are conditions out that way?

Your argument still smells regarding the use of cans. If there is minimal hp gain, then why spend the 300 bucks?

We were talking about hp gains needing more fuel - not performance gains.

I still say cans are about noise, with no other justification for their use by 99.9 percent of the guys using them.

Originally posted by michahicks@Dec 17 2004, 03:16 PM
Gman,
Pontiac lake is frozen, as are some others, but they are just starting to skin over. Northern lower will have some extra tracks due to my presence before the night is over.... thanks for asking. How are conditions out that way?

Your argument still smells regarding the use of cans. If there is minimal hp gain, then why spend the 300 bucks?

We were talking about hp gains needing more fuel - not performance gains.

I still say cans are about noise, with no other justification for their use by 99.9 percent of the guys using them.
376581


No snow here until 6,000 feet so still waiting! Are you going to Gaylord? Keep me posted on what you find up there. My folks live in Charlevoix and expected me home for the holidays but I&#39;m waiting for better snow in January (and to avoid the holiday crowds).

Yeah - a lot of add ons benefit to cost ratio is rather ridiculous (though the cans I&#39;ve seen are only $200 ;-)). The really crazy ones out here are the carbon fiber A-arms and titanium front springs - guys are willing to pay a grand to drop 20 pounds off the front end of a powder sled but front end weight is critical in these conditions. I guess that&#39;s why they can sell those Crazy Mtn Xtrm sleds for 20 grand!

Cheers,

G

Originally posted by FuzzButt@Dec 17 2004, 02:58 PM
Waterford is currently 26 degrees. Lakes are all open water. Less than 2 inches of snow in my yard.
376571


At least it&#39;s cold enough there now! Where in Waterford are you? I grew up near Huntoon Lake. It kills me to go back there and see some of my fave sledding spots all developed out now (behind where Kettering was). My high school is gone, heck, even my TOWN is GONE! LOL! (Drayton Plains got sucked into Waterford).

Cheers,

G

hey

i bought the plastic skis and i love them. they are so great for turning and they stay up in the powder better. thanx for the advice guys

If you want the can go for it, if its going to make you happier then why not buy it?

I have stinger tips and I havn&#39;t been harassed by any greenies yet.

good choice with the skis, can is a waste of money IMHO. which skis did u decide to go with??