Was out trail riding sunday and she locked up. I cant figure out why because I was going maybe 10mph just cruising and taking it easy. Sounded like it was running out of gas then just stopped. I tried pulling it over and of course it wouldnt budge. It was cold out, maybe 5 deg fahrenheit but still it wsnt like I was screaming acorss ths lake (which I did do about 2 hours before). Sled was plenty warmed up because I had been riding for about 20 minutes before this happened. The shop is tearing it down today so I'll know more later but doesnt make sense to me...the only thing I can think of is maybe the Holtzman tempaflow leaned it out for some reason...maybe one of the hoses got kinked.

Oh well.., let me know if anyone has any ideas. And since I have to get it rebuilt anyway any suggestions on pistons? Or anything else I should know about when I get this done? I would like to keep or improve reliability, I am more concerned with this then getting ultimate performance. Dont want to break down on the trail again...

Thanks!

Todd

I should have mentioned:

1200 miles on the sled

stock jetting

tempaflow installed and ran all last season with no issues

:bash:

Did you clean your carbs before riding? How did you store it over the summer?

Just curious...

I stored it in a garage, used fuel stabilizer and fogged it. In Late october I fired it up and ran a bit in the garage. Ran it again in novemeber. Ha dit out a couple weeks ago and ran it around the yard a few times. The only real riding time I got was this past weekend. Saturday I spent some time just running it across the lake....lots of WOT time. And it was cold saturday too. Then sunday I took it for a short ride...once again had some WOT time. Then went on another trip and this was much slower just trail cruising (my g/f was riding it at the time) and out of nowhere it just died.

To answer your question though, no. I had them cleaned last year and since I used stabil in the spring I thought :crazy: it would be ok. Guess thats a definite possibility though, I didnt even think of that. I just dont get why it didnt blow up the day before when I was screaming across the lake over and over.

the only thing I can think of is maybe the Holtzman tempaflow leaned it out for some reason...maybe one of the hoses got kinked

I have the ATAAC on my sled also. If a hose comes off, the sled will run, but it won't compensate. The sled will run as if the ATAAC wasn't even hooked up.

To answer your question though, no. I had them cleaned last year and since I used stabil in the spring I thought* it would be ok. Guess thats a definite possibility though, I didnt even think of that.

I wouldn't trust stabil or seafoam to keep my carbs clean. They probably help, but I always go through all my carbs thoroughly. Some of the guys that I ride with use that stuff without cleaning their carbs, but I take the time to clean my carbs.
It really doesn't take that long to clean the carbs!

Cleaning the carbs is such a controversial discussion. I used to do this every single year. I would pull these things completely apart just to see a clean carb and I still had a couple of melt downs (not bad in 20 years). Then ten years ago I decided to store the sled properly. I haven't cleaned a carb in ten years with no melt down. I do put some carb cleaner in the first tank full. I don't know if this does any good or not. Maybe storing the sleds in the garage makes the difference. I did pull out the John Deere to sell it after being stored in the back of the garage for 8 years. It started up and ran great with the old gas that was in the tank. More than likely if your sled ran good the day before I would check the tempaflow.

Any chance this has anything to do with the infamous ring ordeal? If the rings failed would that cause this to happen?

Well I got the answer from the shop:

The magneto side seal failed and basicaly was sucking in tons of crap (he said there was a lot of sand in the bootom) over some period of time. When the engine seized basically the bearing finally failed. The good news is the crank, connecting rods, cylinders and head are fine. Just need to replace bearings, seals, pistons and hone the cylinder walls.

They suggested Wiseco pistons. Any thoughts on them? I have heard their name all over the place but dont know anything about them.

They are calling with a price tomorrow and for the "go-ahead". Anything else I should know?? Is the Nicasil coating something I need to worry about?

Thanks!

I'm not sure about other peoples experience with Wiseco pistons, but around here every one seems to have a problem with them. And from several different machine shops so its not just poor workmanship. Every time I hear about them, them lock the motor up and seize in the bore after recently being rebuilt. Then the machine shop hones the bore out, and slaps another set in and the sled is mint for many more seasons. To me it sounds as if the clearance that Wiseco says you should have is on the tight side and this causes the problems. So just make sure to have them fit a little on the loose side and you should be good to go. JMO, See ya!

Does anyone else think it is absurd that a crank seal blows after only 1200 miles? Not like I am racing this thing or anything...

:cussing:

The more I think about it the more frustrated I get...

Todd :bash:

Ski doo has a recall on 2002 800's, They are saying the carbs a miss-adjusted and may cause piston failure, I would question the seal issue. Seams a little odd.

The magneto side seal failed and basicaly was sucking in tons of crap (he said there was a lot of sand in the bootom) Where did the sand come from?

I have no idea where the sand came from...I mean the driveway is sand but for it to actually suck in that much sand just amazes me. He said he saved the sand in case i wanted to see it... he said it looked like I had sunk it or something (which I havent). It is really strange and doesnt make sense to me but apparently if the seal has slowly been going bad over time I guess it is possible that it got in there. I am still amazed by it all...

Todd

Are you the original owner?

Yup, bought it brand spankin new! I thought I would spend the money and take good care of it so I wouldnt have to worry as much about this kind of stuff...

Just an FYI, I had to buy gas from a bar in Upper Wisconsin once, and my motor locked up 50 miles later. I had sand in my motor also. The sand ruined a crank bearing, which caused the motor to lock-up. It bent the crank, bent rod, bad cylinder, piston and head. Since they determined I had sand in the carb bowls, bad gas was the assumption, my insurance covered the engine. Worth a try.

Hmmmm...very interesting actually. I'll make sure to ask if there was any sand in the carbs. They only mentioned in the crank case but its worth a try. Thanks for the info!!

Good call! Sand is in the carbs and he is checking for sand in the gas tank...I may get this covered by insurance.


Thanks for your reply!!

Another good reason the manufacture should be installing quality fuel filters!!!

Is there a fuel filter at all in these machines? Seems like there has to be and why didn't the filter stop it?

Good question...I dont know. I didnt ask, I was too busy trying to think about how I am gonna pay for this. The shop did say when they put everything back together they will install a fuel filter. If it didnt have one I have no idea why not. If it did I dont understand how the sand got there.

Anyways, fighting with the insurance guy now. Trying to claim vandalism....someone put the sand in my gas tank.

Thanks for everyone's input!!

I'll be updating when I know more...

Todd

there is a filter in the tank on the line that supplies the fuel pump.

on my touring it didn't come with a fuel filter or a shut off valve

i thought all doos had a mysterious filter in the tank...they wouldnt build something with out a filter... ya got me thinkin, sand in the carbs, sand in the case...they gotta have a filter....right?

Ttrein, where do you ride? A few years back, we were riding near Iron Mountain Mich, and the trails were a shade on red. We asked a local why, and they said sometimes they add sand to the trails to make it easier to see the trail. Well that definitely helped us see the trail, but if you rode close to anyone, your sled would ingest all of that crap. I have not been back there since so I don't know if they still add sand. The point is maybe it could have also been coming in through the airbox. Just a thought...

ttrein, I see you are from Wheeling. Where are you having the work done at?

ttrein, sorry to hear of your troubles. We just tore down LadyK's 2002 mxz 800 last saturday as it had over 8000 HARD kliks on it. Lots of WOT hours of powder running. We decided to rebuild the top end due to the known ring issue and to prevent a possible grenading. While tearing it down we saw a few issues that could have lead to problems this season. The base gasket was starting to go on the intake side. We sprayed the new gasket with Copper contact spray. Where the carb inlets go into the reed cages there was lots of corrosion on the aluminum. Cleaned all corrosion off with scotch brite pads.The reed cages are also delaminating. A big thanks again to Idooski for helping me out.

Perm

If you havent got it rebuilt yet I would suggest cudney pistons and rings for it. All I've ever heard are good things about em, and hes a really good guy to deal with.

I am from Wheeling, but the sled is up in Rhinelander, wi. There's a shop there called Boom Lake Marine, so far very cool people to work with.

As far as the trail, it was snow covered pretty well and no snirt except at road crossings. Even if there was sand on the trail...how would it make it to the carbs and crank case? I owul dhope the air filter would catch all that except small particles of dust.

If there is a filter in the tank, which it only makes sense if there was, I guess I am still just amazed that it made it through to the carbs and ultimately the crank. When this was first brought to them they thought maybe the engine sucked the dirt in when the seal was going. But once they found it in the carbs thats when it got real strange.

The pistons were already ordered, I am getting Wiseco. The shop highly recommended them and said they use them all the time. Now I have to go through break in again, ugh! No WOT for a while for me.

Speaking of break-in, do I need to add oil to the first tank of gas just like when brand new? And I guess I just need to baby it for the first 100 miles or so.

Still waiting on the insurance guys response...wish they would have scrapped it, then I owuld have an excuse to get a new Mch Z :thumbsup: gues I gotta keep saving for that one...

Hope everyone has a merry christmas!!

Some guys have good luck with the Wiseco's. You just have to make sure the sled is warmed up well before WOT. Otherwise the pistons expands before the jug gets a chance to. A lot of guys are starting to run SPI pistons. You can get them several places. Got mine from High Performance Engineering. Had them in for over 1000 miles so far. No problems. Coated skirts and domes. $51.00 each and that includes chrome rings. They're not listed as SPI pistons with HPE. They are in the section right after the Wiseco's. Call and ask if they are SPI's before ordering.

Originally posted by ttrein+Dec 24 2004, 01:00 PM-->As far as the trail, it was snow covered pretty well and no snirt except at road crossings. Even if there was sand on the trail...how would it make it to the carbs and crank case? I owul dhope the air filter would catch all that except small particles of dust.

If there is a filter in the tank, which it only makes sense if there was, I guess I am still just amazed that it made it through to the carbs and ultimately the crank. When this was first brought to them they thought maybe the engine sucked the dirt in when the seal was going. But once they found it in the carbs thats when it got real strange.
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if the sand came in through the air box, how could it end up in the bowls? It must have come in through the fuel tank

<!--QuoteBegin-ttrein@Dec 24 2004, 01:00 PM
Speaking of break-in, do I need to add oil to the first tank of gas just like when brand new? And I guess I just need to baby it for the first 100 miles or so.

Still waiting on the insurance guys response...wish they would have scrapped it, then I owuld have an excuse to get a new Mch Z* :thumbsup:* gues I gotta keep saving for that one...

Hope everyone has a merry christmas!!
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I&#39;ve always been told that extra oil should be added after a rebuild. i don&#39;t know if its necessary or not with just a rering, but if new berings are installed i would think it would be pretty important. Even if its not necesary, its cheep insurance.

good luck with the ins. man. what was the last gas station you were at so we know to stay away from it?


- Jason

Last gas station...hmmm...I wish I knew. Insurance guy asked me that too. Last time I filled up was last season. This was my first ride this year.