Here are some pics of the new front ends of the '03 HD pickups. Gone is the different grille & hood for the Chev & the chrome grille in the GMC. On trucks that don't have driving lights, there are just deep recesses. It would have looked better if they had filled the holes in.

Whoever was the engineer/designer in charge should be shot and $%^&ed on. I wonder how many sales they'll lose because people don't like the looks? At work here, a lot of us were looking forward to the new front ends, but when we saw it, we sure didn't do any backflips. I'm definitely not looking forward to ordering my '04 *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

The comments on PickupTruck.com have mostly been negative.

If you want to believe the following reasoning go ahead.

"I think The July/Aug Truck Trend (I am not 100% sure) has a statement from GM saying they changed the HD's hood and made them all alike for easy recognition of the entire line of trucks. You see the grill/hood and know immediately what you are seeing, whether you are an enthusiast or just the average buyer. If I can locate it, I will scan it."

Reply from another poster: "If you can't tell by the Bowtie that it is a Chevy truck, then you must have just come out of your cave...

I was hoping they would leave the HDs alone (like Phord's half ton and Hevy Duty designs). But once again GM has to go and do things stupid. Now their entire line looks all the same from the front. Are the parts interchangeable? If so, GM did it to save money, not for brand recognition. JEERS TO GM. "


Can you imagine if Ford decided to go with the F150 sheet metal on the Super Dutys?

The Chev looks "OK" from the front, but there is something about the side view is horrible. I think it has something to do with the radius at the front of the fender & the headlight/turn signal styling.

The GMC now. Nice gap between the grille & bumper. Could they not have centered the "GMC" when they placed it on the grille? I wonder how long the plastic bumper cover will last in "real world" use?

The GMC bumper appears to jut out further than the Chev.

I'll take the GMC. It just looks better.

I could almost live with the GMC if the bumper wasn't mostly plastic. A year ago I tore off the air dam on my '00. I wonder how much the bumper cover will cost to buy & get painted? You know the dealer won't be able to get a replacement painted the body colour.

It almost seems that they are going back to the "Box" formations that you can see in the older gm trucks, definetely a step backwards.

Didn't this style come from the avalanche and escalade? *Both of those are not easy on the eyes. *We should take those crackhead engineers and there designs and put them all in a path of an avalanche. *I like the squarer styled pickups 88-98 much better.

Glad I got the 02 HD...very happy with it! *Now if I can talk the wifey pooh into letting me hang a 4 place V-nose off the back of it, it'll really be nice!

These designs surely won't help GM retain market share. * http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sarcasm.gif

Take a look at the ugly tail lights that they have. They look like they came off of a Jeep Liberty. They look terrible in my opinion. The front end does come from the Avlanche, I dont know what they were thinking switching to that front end. Its terrible. http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/nervous.gif

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wolfman @ Aug. 02, 2002, 7:12pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">These designs surely won&#39;t help GM retain market share. * http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sarcasm.gif[/b][/quote]
Wolfman, my sentiments exactly!! Unfortunately we build the 1500 series *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

Are the large SUVs being changed? The Tahoes & Suburbans are going to look real ugly now.

I think the Denali pickup for &#39;03 will keep the honeycomb grille.

A note to people so inclined, the only things changed on the GMC are the grille & bumper. So it might be possible to swap the &#39;02 pieces on a &#39;03. I&#39;ve seen a few old style (GMT400) GMCs around Ontario that guys have swapped the older Denali front end sheet metal on.

My vote&#39;s for the GMC also. I wonder how many extra sales we&#39;re going pick up since the Chevy looks like a cross between an ugly Avalanche and a Toyota. Thank goodness we sell GMC. Drove the H2 Hummer this past week, now that&#39;s uuuuggggllllyyyy considering it costs 50 grand US. http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/nervous.gif

I&#39;m a Chevy man but I have to agree its ugly

Don&#39;t you guys realize, this is job security. *In a couple years when they don&#39;t sell well they have to revamp the front end again. *They are sly not stupid. http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/devil.gif

I don&#39;t like the looks of the new GM trucks either, but I seem to remember a thread very similar to this about not liking the REV. A lot of us have changed our minds about that. Maybe GM will be as lucky.

At least with the REV you get a new front suspension & the HO motor. http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

This is a serious question, how many adults will fit in a Tundra regular cab?

We had a F150 & Tundra in the plant a couple of years ago & the Tundra looked about the same size as a Dakota. Until the Japanese automakers come up with a truck comparable in size to the Ram/Silverado/F150, North American full size pickup buyers will ignore them.

Toyota Is the biggest @#%%. *My 1996 4 runner limited with 3.4 liter ran like pure crap.

Over the course of 2 years.

1. Head gasket blew.
2. Heater broke.
3. Raido backlighting broke.
4. Used more gas then my 5.9 durango.
5. Couldnt pull my boat.
6. Diff locker broke.
7. Stalled at least twice a month.

I hated that truck. *I went to dodge and have had zero problems in the 260000km that i have driven a dodge product. *One of my friends has a 1985 ram with a slant 6. *Its got 850000km on the original clutch and it starts and runs better then a new honda civic.

There&#39;s no job security if they don&#39;t sell any. Our shop is slow enough as it is. It doesn&#39;t need to get any worse. Fortunately we sell GMC and IMO, it&#39;s the better one of the two. * http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

Looking at the grilles on the Chevs today & I think regardless what colour I get, I&#39;ll paint everything flat black except for the chrome. I don&#39;t really like the body colour on the grille. That is why I didn&#39;t by a &#39;94 GMC. That year the Chev grille looked much better.

Or maybe the Tahoe grille will be different & be all chrome, YAYYY http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif

I see you guys responding about the bumper covers on the trucks. LOL now they are trying to make the heavy duty trucks more car-like. I am a ford man, but my wife spotted a truck at work (ford dealer) and said to me "oh theres your new truck ehh" Well she said *may want o get a new one this fall or next spring so I mosey&#39;ed over and checked it out. 03 f-350 super duty crew cab diesel. It had the FX4 package. Upon further checking I saw it had painted bumpers (83 ranger I had same thing truck was six months old and had no paint left on the bumpers). I would no way ever get those painted bumpers, could you imagine after a summer of bugs etc... or a winter of salt how they would look? I decided it was not "my" truck, it also had the chrome "leg breaker step bars" and shift on the fly 4x4 (never). That baby was over $42,000. I think I will save the $5,000 and get another v-10. Kevin

We started to build the Denali pickups this week and the grille & bumper is carried over from &#39;02.

Speaking about bumper covers, maybe I should take a trip to Texas next spring & see what a &#39;03 with an aftermarket front bumper looks like. *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I think all the aftermarket bumper companies are in Texas http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Doo they still have low frame ground clearance rev?I still want
to know who dreamed that design up as i saw more than one
HD http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif gm product hung up in a unplowed parking lot last winter
with the tires spinning and the fram hung up in the snow.They
really liked it when my ram drove buy em with a four place on http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

AFAIK, the frames are the same on the HDs. I haven&#39;t seen any HDs on the lots around here. That would be easily solved if they would put taller tires on them. http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

Are there any engineers out there to answer this question: Could the cross section of the center of the frame rail be changed so that they could increase the ground clearance? Why not go with the same design, but thicker steel *than on my K2500?

I&#39;d like to have a taller truck but I got past the lifting experience with my &#39;82. Besides aren&#39;t GM IFS lift kits running close to 2 large in Canada? And that&#39;s before you buy tires & rims. Then you have to add a speed sensor buffer so that the computer isn&#39;t screwed up http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif *Not like the old days, *6 shocks, 2 front springs, 2 rear lift blocks & a bunch of u bolts. Hooray for solid front axles *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif

I disliked the new GM so much, that when the new company that I work for told me to go buy a new truck (we get gm discount) I bought a Dodge. The Dodge has more room, rides better, and cost a lot less. the Dodge looks like a truck. It was well thought out vehicle. I dont think now that I will go back to GM for a truck, unless they change thier ideas on what a truck should be. IMHO.

If I were you, I&#39;d go by the GM dealer that you had dealt with in the past & let them know your feelings & why you bought a Dodge. Unless GM knows people hate the design they won&#39;t do anything.

When they came out with the last version of the RWD Impala, people complained about the rear wheel openings. Eventually they changed the styling to look normal.

thats ok Brian ,I like you buying those dodges http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif .as I have told some, at work they are running the new HD trans on the dyno behind the v-10 subjecting it to loads as high as pulling a 20,000 lbs. trailer and it is looking like a true winner.it is very similar to the old 727. our product engineer(he gets to abuse these in test vehicles)is singing the praises about this tranny and he has been saying for years they needed it for the diesels.also the new light duty rwd trans is now in production this is slated for cars,thats right cars.diamlerchrysler will be building rwd cars in the near future.it has many of the same components as the 42rle(lhs,intrepid,concorde trans) pump,vb,clutches and many more.I almost forgot to mention you also get "7year 100,000 mile powertrain pledge" thats right no longer a promotion ,its our dedication to the customer the best warr. of the big 4.I challenge all the rest to join suit if you dare.

To give you an idea of the mindset at GM right now, you only have to read this from the August issue of National Post Business magazine. It was taken from a time line included in an article about consumer focus groups.

QUOTE 2001- Robert Lutz, new vice-chairman at General Motors Corp., overhauls the automakers product development system, sharply limiting consumer input into car design. "Overreliance on [focus-group] research," Lutz telss reporters, "is like trying to drive by looking in the rearview mirror." UNQUOTE

IMO, the only design that is pleasing to the eye forthcoming from GM in the near future is the Chevy SSR & that&#39;s a copy of a design from 50 years ago. I see they&#39;ve announced you will be able to order a 1/2 ton Avalanche w/o the cladding. It will come with the Silverado flares.

GM is digging them self into a hole and filling it with concreat. *Dodge is the only way to go. *There new trucks are built way stronger and have new and exciting engine tranny packages. *Such as 5.7 Hemi, 305HP cummins, and i heard but it may just be a rumor that there will be a 6.? L engine that is also a Hemi in the near future. *

These trucks like Dooman said are build stronger, stiffer, and simply better then the compition. *Give them a try. *You will never go back. *

I got the 1500 2002 and its an amazing truck, Only thing i dont like is the 5.9 engine. *I feel it needs a little more pop but the 5.7 345hp will do just that.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Machzzzz1 @ Aug. 09, 2002, 12:00pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Dodge is the only way to go. *There new trucks are built way stronger and have new and exciting engine tranny packages. *Such as 5.7 Hemi, 305HP cummins, and i heard but it may just be a rumor that there will be a 6.? L engine that is also a Hemi in the near future. *

These trucks like Dooman said are build stronger, stiffer, and simply better then the compition. *[/b][/quote]
If all this was true, wouldn&#39;t you think that Dodge would be the best selling truck?

or are you saying that there is that many stupid people in the world?

Maybe, just maybe, (I know it&#39;s a stretch) could it be that they&#39;re all not that much different from one another and all 3 (Big 3) are built pretty decent???

Corey look at the pics posted above. *Chevy is clutering there truck up with unessessary stuff and leaving the smooth rounded look in the past. *They are making there trucks look like box&#39;s again. *If this is your cup of tea go for it. *All manufactors make good cars and trucks or they would not be in buissness. *

However I have hand made and CNC made Millions of parts for all the big 3 and if you make a small mistake on one part normally it slides thru the companys inspection. *However Dodge/Chrysler/Mercedies started sending them back. *GM and ford offered much higher tolerances and were easier to make parts for. * Everybody hated chrysler becasue they were a pain in the A$$. *

I myself have liked chrysler since 1996 when i gave them a try. *I bought a durango and it was a great truck. *Yes i have owned Chevy and GMC and Ford. *They were all great. *But i resently purchesed a Dodge Ram 2002 and I am greatly impressed. *It is amazing, Chassie is so stiff, Fit and finish is high. *Its much more aerodynamic and it screams quality. *Im used to driving Mercedies M class and let me tell you the dodge handles and drive better then the Mercedies. *

Thats one thing not even mentioned yet is the Handling. *Its unreal, it handles like a car. *I dont know what or how they did it but they did. *And with all the new engines coming and there success in Nascar it obvouise that Chrysler is not messing around. *

This is just an opinion. *Gm and Ford still make great trucks but as Revrnd stated they are going the wrong way and might be blinded. *You guys should let them know it.

I will not say dodge is the only way to go.I would say I like all the people that buy them this = job security for me and my uaw brothers/sisters.my dad retired from GM so I am kind of in the middle.we have owned all of the big 3&#39;s trucks and had great results with them all.the problem with the new chevy is completely looks(my opinion is they are ugly).I will not say our quality control is any better than the next,only that the only domestic auto maker that can beat us on our tranny warrantee claims is ford,but they follow asian warner whom builds/built some of the jeep transmissions(not sure if they still do or not).we are right there with ford in quality as measured by the company via J.D. POWERS information.which is the claims per 100(c&#39;s per 100) ford was at 3 , we were at 3.5,GM a close third at 6.that is saying out of our 7500+ units a day around 260 will have a warrantee claim,too many I would say not but any consumer that has a problem wished he was not one of the 260,and might not agree with me on that.

My main beef with GM is their idea that everyone who buys a truck wants a loaded 4x4 that never goes off the pavement. I&#39;ve worked in the Oshawa Truck Plant nine years all together. First time from &#39;85 to &#39;88 & &#39;97 to today. When I first was there & we were still building the &#39;73-&#39;87 style truck, most of the people buying trucks were using them as trucks. Now the vast majority of what we build are loaded extended cab 4x4s & Denalis w/ QS4. How many of these truck will see any dirt. For what you pay for one, you&#39;re afraid to scratch it.

The the trim levels for the GMC back in the 80s were Sierra (base), High Sierra (mid-level) & Sierra Classic (loaded). Now you have 2 choices, base or loaded. Do you really need leather seats a truck to go hunting? Do you want the same cheap trim as a construction company orders?

You used to be able to order Custom Extra Grips as the on/off-road tire option. Now the OOR tire option is pretty lame Goodyear Wrangler AT-S. Not what I would call a real offroad tire, but because of tire noise complaints, most of the trad patterns on the trucks are highway oriented.

Does anyone out there have a stock pre &#39;88 Chev or GMC pickup? I&#39;d like to know how many leaves are in the rear spring pack. A 1/2 ton GMT800 4x4 has 3 leaves. Not a heavy hauler by any stretch of the imagination.

I could go on & on *http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif but somebody out there might put a contract on me.

GM sees the profits from building "cars", while Ford & Dodge are building real trucks & are marketing them as trucks.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (revrnd @ Aug. 09, 2002, 7:55pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">GM sees the profits from building "cars", while Ford & Dodge are building real trucks & are marketing them as trucks.[/b][/quote]
All I can say is that IF this was true, GM truck sales would reflect it. It doesn&#39;t, whatsoever.

So either there is a huge customer base for the late model GM&#39;s and GM successfully fullfilled it, or, like I said before, there&#39;s a whole BUNCH of stupid people out there buying trucks they don&#39;t really like...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SWWebmaster @ Aug. 09, 2002, 9:22pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (revrnd @ Aug. 09, 2002, 7:55pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">GM sees the profits from building "cars", while Ford & Dodge are building real trucks & are marketing them as trucks.[/b][/quote]
All I can say is that IF this was true, GM truck sales would reflect it. It doesn&#39;t, whatsoever.

So either there is a huge customer base for the late model GM&#39;s and GM successfully fullfilled it, or, like I said before, there&#39;s a whole BUNCH of stupid people out there buying trucks they don&#39;t really like...[/b][/quote]
Trucks are very much a fad vehicle right now, just like the SUV. *When the vehicle is the flavor of the month for buyers, they tend to get softened to fit that market. *It doesn&#39;t hurt GM any that they once had an entire 50% of the auto market between all of its divisions.

Those who look for real work trucks are largely ignoring GMC and Chevy. *Dodge and Ford are the primary competitors with the Navistar and Cummins diesels in the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. *Their sales are very close in this arena. *Duramax diesels aren&#39;t exacly flying off of the lots where I live. GM&#39;s reputation from the past still haunts them in the diesel arena. *Their current issue with piston slap in the LS1 derived engines haven&#39;t helped. *Consequently, Dodge up untill recently has been largely ignored by the crowd wanting a truck for a car. *before the 94 redesign, they rode hard and like buckboards. *Credit this to a heavy duty suspension. *Dodge has been perennialy handicapped by what was an almost 30 year old design, lackluster marketing up untill recently, along with periods of very poor quality control. *The gains in market share for Dodge trucks between the introduction of the Cummins, and the new designs, woke up both GM and ford. *You can see hints of the Dodge design in both the Superduty, and the pre avalanche GM trucks.

I agree with the statement about gm trying to make cars out of there trucks. *All though all of the big 3 are responcible for doing this GM is the leader. *I would fear taking a avalanche offroad because half the trim would rip off of it. *Also the low ground clearence on there Sieara doesnt help. *

But GM is making money off of this becasue the market is forcing them to go that way. *

I BLAME THIS ON GM, FORD, AND CHRYSLERS LACK of RWD V8 sedans. *Ford offers the crown vic but thats a bulky cruiser normally driven by old men. *Im also not talking about sport cars like the corvette and viper, im talking about real cars like for instance a 1971 Challenger. *Look at the clearence under the car. *it was a do all car, It would handle the city, easily take the back roads, was built tough. *There is no car like that that could do what those cars could do. *Even the FWD cars like the intrepid or grand prix have super low clearences probably for aerodynamics. *How come in the old days people did everything with there family sedan and today we need specilty cars and trucks. *If the companies would build a car that is RWD and great all around even suitable for pulling a light trailer. *Our truck problems would be over because GM, Ford, dodge could go back to making real trucks.

Chyrsler is going to start making RWD cars again maybe with V8s (Probably). *My opinion is that it will really take off and sell good. *I might be customer #1

Back in the late 70s & early 80s you&#39;d do things to cars that today are unheard of. B body GM cars could take a lot of abuse.

In &#39;99 I was in northern BC on holidays & all the construction pickups were Fords & Dodges, not many GMT400 3/4 or 1 tons to be seen. What does GM see as their market? High profit loaded 1/2 tons or stripped fleet or commercial trucks with few options that require extra engineering for durability?

Around here it seems like all businesses buy GM.