A few of my sleddin buddies are having a debate over who was
the first sled manufac. with IFS.I said i would ask the experts on SW.Thanks

Just my opinion, but wasn't it the TrailCat? *Think it was like '80 or '81.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (JIM FRITCH @ Sep. 09, 2002, 11:22am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Just my opinion, but wasn&#39;t it the TrailCat? *Think it was like &#39;80 or &#39;81.[/b][/quote]
I do believe you are correct. http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sarcasm.gif

If you&#39;re talking first production sled, yes it was the Trail Cat. *Although race teams were using using it in the early and mid 70&#39;s. *I believe the Unsers designed the first IFS front end for the early Alouette race sleds (73-74?). *I think the Indy RXL/TXL as well as the Cat Sno Pro&#39;s had it in the late 70&#39;s but those weren&#39;t considered production sleds.

YOU MAY WANT TO CHECK WITH VINTAGE GUYS ON THIS BUT I ONCE SAW AN ARTICLE ON A CHAPPAREL THAT HAD INDEPENDENT FRONT? NOT SURE IF IT WAS IN PRODUCTION.

Skidoo had a very rare a arm front suspention in the 70s i belive. *Ive never been able to find info on it on the net only reason i know it exsists is becasue I saw one pull up to me at a gas station, he told me about it, said it handled like crap and didnt work that well. *I also heard about it from someone else on this site so maybe they will come thru.

hey, I happen to have one!
http://www.mvc.on.ca/img/trailcat.jpg

its plated 12/78
not much left in this sled but suspension for sale if you need it.

That brings back memories...remember when my buddy&#39;s dad bought him one of those new.

Thanks guys,keep the replies coming http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif All i remember is that i thought that polaris started using IFS on there oval race sleds in 77.I thought that others were using it before that though.

Other racers were definately using some sort of IFS prior to the Polaris.

79 trail cat first good ifs.

Gilles Villeneuve Designed and built an oval track racer with backing from Alouette in the early 70&#39;s. It had independent front end, twin tracks and a cockpit, not unlike a small formula car. He won the world championship several times with similar designs.

I always thought that it was the trail cat, then my buddy that races told me he thought it was john deere.

If I remember correctly, we had this discusion before and it turned out to be something wierd like a Rupp or something that was the first to have it. *I could be way off, but that just stands out for some reason...haha

alscool
do you still have that trail cat if so could you post a pic of the motor mount

I&#39;ll check my old sled mags. I&#39;m sort of leaning towards Chapparel.

My old 70 olimpic 335 had independent front suspention.................I asked it to turn and it replied no!!!!!!!!!!! ;)

Those who have ever been in on one of my chatroom quizes should know this one!! From my secret sled trivia site....

When did the first IFS equipped sled appear?

Alouette had a IFS (Independent Front Suspension) on their factory twin-tracked sled in the early 70&#39;s and Polaris had a successful version on their RX-L oval racers in the mid 70&#39;s but the first successful consumer sled with a IFS was on the Arctic Cat Trail Cat in 1978. This low performance sled was relegated to also-ran when Polaris introduced the "modern" version in 1979 (1980 model) TX-L Indy. The term IFS is misleading since the old leaf spring sleds were actually independent also - they just didn&#39;t work worth a cr@p. The modern IFS, mislabeled, is actually dependent as the skis are connected (in most cases) with a sway bar.

So there you have it ;) The official first IFS sleds.

The Chapparell was the first to introduce the IFS in a factory race sled. This was in the very early 1970&#39;s.
Next would have been Gilles Villeneuve and the Alloute twin tracker, followed by his Skiroule racer 2 seasons later.
An independant named Gordon Roudolph wa very active in this area, he later was an advisor to Polaris with the RXL race sled.
The first CONSUMER trail sled equipped with IFS would have been the 1979 TRAIL CAT. I had one, and enjoyed it very much. These were followed by the Polaris Indy&#39;s and the Yamaha SRV.

Originally posted by RonTOF@Apr 19 2003, 02:59 PM
The Chapparell was the first to introduce the IFS in a factory race sled. This was in the very early 1970&#39;s.
Next would have been Gilles Villeneuve and the Alloute twin tracker, followed by his Skiroule racer 2 seasons later.
An independant named Gordon Roudolph wa very active in this area, he later was an advisor to Polaris with the RXL race sled.
The first CONSUMER* trail sled equipped with IFS would have been the 1979 TRAIL CAT. I had one, and enjoyed it very much. These were followed by the Polaris Indy&#39;s and the Yamaha SRV.
Ron is correct, but I guess the real question is on what kind of sled? Racer? Production? or Other?

The first to use it was Ski-Doo back in 71 on a speed machine called the X-4R (picture below)

Next was Chapparell, factory racer. For production sled it was the Trail Cat

http://www2.ebtech.net/~dhakala/71x4rfr.jpg

Originally posted by BGTRK19472@Sep 9 2002, 12:18 PM
YOU MAY WANT TO CHECK WITH VINTAGE GUYS ON THIS BUT I ONCE SAW AN ARTICLE ON A CHAPPAREL THAT HAD INDEPENDENT FRONT? NOT SURE IF IT WAS IN PRODUCTION.
i agree......chappy&#39;s

Guess I never did consider the speed run machines, as they were usually a one of design. With that in mind however we would have to consider the Sno-Pony turbine sled as well. Heck, it was independant both front and rear was it not ? Also did not Bombardier have a tarantula speed run machine as well ???? ( spelling ) suppose to be like the name of a spider tarantula ?

Production: Arctic Cat, Trail Cat

Works/Proto: Chapparel and Snow-jet

I do not recall a Sno-Jet with IFS at all. Now Jim Adema built a homemade waterjacket for his 292 single, thus becoming one of the first to utilize liquid cooloing, but IFS not that I remember.

Ron, I really don&#39;t know if they did or not. I do remember the Double Eagle&#39;s and X-2R&#39;s.

Originally posted by RonTOF@Apr 20 2003, 08:59 AM
I do not recall a Sno-Jet with IFS at all. Now Jim Adema built a homemade waterjacket for his 292 single, thus becoming one of the first to utilize liquid cooloing, but IFS not that I remember.
[quote]

I also can&#39;t remember Sno Jet having an IFS sled. They had a prototype sled called the Phantom, but sure it was a leafer. As for the 292 L/C of Adema&#39;s, a person in MI bought the sled from Jim&#39;s wife. He had it for a while along with a true 76 Ski-Doo Sno Pro (but thats a different story). I can&#39;t remember who he sold the sled to, but Dick Waltz of Standish, MI found it and had it at one of the vintage shows this past season. Cool looking sled and guy who 1st had it was there also to verify that it was the real deal. I have to say that Jim Adema was and still is one of the greatest racers there ever was. I remember watching him at many races here in MI.

Nice to hear Jim Adema&#39;s name again. His Thunderjets were pretty incedible to watch. The early (72?) 650 was the fastest thing I had ever seen....

Worked for a small &#39;Jet dealer for duration of their production, don&#39;t remember seeing or hearing of an IFS.

bet this thing&#39;s good on water.................................like a boat.

I like the 73&#39;s but love the 72&#39;s.




http://users.accesscomm.ca/rread/tj1.jpg

No doubt Jim Adema was a true legend of this sport. The race scene has never really been the same since that era. The facory race teams were at thier prime. Most distributors also had race teams. The atomsphere at the race ttracks back then was almost as if it were electric charged. I guess when the PDF and the Sno-Pro hit the scene it kind of evened things up some with the pros and the independants, but to have those factory trucks and trailers on scene was something else............

You know the Unsers were involved with the Chapparrell IFS program also. I believe Bobby Unser still owns a rather extensive Chapparrell collection.

I don&#39;t know if you know Bud Knapp or reconize the name. He is snowmobiles, Mr Know It All. He also just got inducted into the Hall of Fame. If anyone needs any kind of antique or vintage snowmobile question answered, Bud&#39;s the guy to ask. He is a very nice guy to talk to and will help out anyone. Anyways, Bud&#39;s favorite brand is Chap&#39;s. He has been to Bobby&#39;s place in Arizonia numberous times. He got almost everything from Bobby except 1 sled (Chap&#39;s racer with the wing).

I know Bud alright. Years ago when I first joined the ASCOA I wrote asking for information concerning my OE16H twin track Polaris (1965). Heck Bud sent me a copy of the factory maintenance manual, and an illistrated parts manual. When I finally met him at an ASCOA meeting is St. Germain, WI a few months later, I nearly had to beg him to accept money for reproduction and postage for those things. He should up to that meeting, and his car trunk was like a giant file cabinet with info on nearly any sled you could think of. What a character &#33;!!!!!!!

Ron

sleds I have had
sleds I still have *

63 Polaris k-70D *
65 Cat 140 Deluxe
65 Polaris OE16H *
68 Cat with 500cc opposed twin Hirth
70 Puma Mod *
71 EXT Special *
65 Doo Chalet 163 cc
65 Doo Alpine 247 cc
(1) Marescaro
heck I can&#39;t remember all the newer ones from 68 on up

i believe it was cat but at the time nobody liked it and cat went out of business

LOL, that sounds like Bud. I&#39;ve met him at a few shows before and have called him about things.. Do you ever get over to any ASCOA shows in MI? I go every year to the show in Naubinway, MI (UP).

I kind of got out of the ASCOA when things got a bit to political for my taste. Got more into the vintage thing anyhow. I did get a chance to visit with Bud at the Ski-Doo reunion at Eagle River this last Sept however. Just watched the 2003 video of the Champoinship Race tonight. Dick Decker sent me a copy the other day. I used to guide tours for he and Audry. We remain friends to this day.

That sounds like fun. I know of the trips they do, but never been on one. I&#39;ve got to the point where I still like to go vintage shows, but I also want to ride. Will start out around there and come back around every so offen, but won&#39;t spend the whole day just at the show. I went to the first reunion in Le Suer, MN. got to hang out with Mike Decker. Might you have any inside pull on getting vintage race parts out of them? LOL

Skiroule had one to in those years...

Cat came out w/ it but it didint work and polaris perfected it..

71 chappy

i drove one this weekend it worked good besides the fact that the carb was dirty and the belt was junk

Citationwanter, you rode what ??????? your posting was not very clear !

LOL......I was just wondering the same thing.

oh sorry a trail cat with a 440

i was just offered the sled the guy wants $200 for it is it worth $200 comes with a 77 panther (-track and motor ) and a v max track (will fit with some work
oh and its a 1980 trail cat 440