Corey davidson got first place and Todd krikke came in 2nd with YAMAHAs.
YAMAHA also got 5th- 6th and 10th....

I'm not really up on this stuff, are we talking snow cross, drag racing?????

Cory,

The I-500 is a cross country race.

Cory,

The I-500 is a cross country race.
[/b]

Ummm, no it's not, it's an oval race.

Cory,

The I-500 is a cross country race.
[/b]

Thanks!!! Makes sense that the Yammi sleds would do well in such a situation, congratulations to their teams :thumbsup:

where'd you get the info? Know a local team that runs it but don't know the drivers name. They also run Yammis.

dont they go by class, i also thought i read an article about they are letting the yamaha 4 strokes run with the 700 an 600s,

so i think it is some what unfair in my opinion

The SOO I-500 is an oval race..........an endurance race. 500 laps around the track ( which I heard was pretty tore up around 200 laps)

Congrats to Yamaha ! Davidson is a heck of a racer !

Snow4

I'm not really up on this stuff, are we talking snow cross, drag racing?????
[/b]
Cory,
type i-500 in your search engine, there's a lot of history there. congratulations to the Yamaha people.

From the 2006 International 500 Rules (http://i-500.com/documents/2006_I-500_Rules.pdf)

Four Stoke Engines:
Snowmobiles with naturally aspirated four stroke engines will be classified by their
displacement divided by 1.75. (For example a 1000cc 4 stroke will be classified into the
600cc class.)

Just like in motocross, where they let 450 four strokes runs with 250 2 strokes, they're giving the 4 strokes a huge advantage over the 2 strokes, and then when they win people say 'look how great 4 strokes are, they can beat a sled half their size!' I wonder who thinks up these 4 stroke displacemenet rules for racing.. probably someone from the sierra club or greanpeace...

Maybe they should just make 2 classes 2 stroke & 4 stroke...now tell me there would not be enough for 4 strokes...

They used to have a race many years ago it went from Winnipeg to St Paul MN I think it was a 500 miles race.....often wondered what ever happen to that race


Rick

Just like in motocross, where they let 450 four strokes runs with 250 2 strokes, they're giving the 4 strokes a huge advantage over the 2 strokes, and then when they win people say 'look how great 4 strokes are, they can beat a sled half their size!' I wonder who thinks up these 4 stroke displacemenet rules for racing.. probably someone from the sierra club or greanpeace...[/b]



Ditto that Rampage


Permafrost

Congrats to Yammi!!!!

Guys, I really don't understand why some of you think a heavier 4-stroke of the same HP class has an advantage. It seems contradictory that some consumers knock these sleds for their weight in the retail world, but then say they have an advantage on the race tracks. I don't see a problem with the sleds being classed by their stock HP. What does it matter what a mfr. uses to get to that hp? If you have a 120 hp 2-stroke, and I have a 120 hp 4-stroke, where's the advantage?

From the 2006 International 500 Rules (http://i-500.com/documents/2006_I-500_Rules.pdf)

Four Stoke Engines:
Snowmobiles with naturally aspirated four stroke engines will be classified by their
displacement divided by 1.75. (For example a 1000cc 4 stroke will be classified into the
600cc class.)

Just like in motocross, where they let 450 four strokes runs with 250 2 strokes, they're giving the 4 strokes a huge advantage over the 2 strokes, and then when they win people say 'look how great 4 strokes are, they can beat a sled half their size!' I wonder who thinks up these 4 stroke displacemenet rules for racing.. probably someone from the sierra club or greanpeace...
[/b]
If you look at the horsepower numbers between the four stroke and 2 stroke sleds in the same class you will see they are similar. If the 4 strokes were more powerful they would change the above mathematical formula, if it is in fact the formula they use. They do this to maintain a level playing field as far as power is concerned. So if a similarily powered 4 stroke beats a 2 stroke then it must be a better motor in some ways but yes it is bigger and heavier. I don't think the rules people would mind if the 2 stroke riders put a 40 lb rock in the trunk of their sled to even things up. Of course maybe I would have to cry foul since that is what people do when a Yamaha 4 stroke beats a 2 stroke. Maybe the 2 stroke guys should cry foul when the yamaha guys don't rebuild their motor until after the season is over. That must be an advantage too, by using the same motor all year, rather than rebuilding every race or two. In the I-500, endurance is very important. That is where the four strokes have the advantage. Why are you crying foul when a bigger heavier similar powered sled wins a race. If you were watching the Olympics and some big fat guy won the 100 m race would you say he had an advantage because he was bigger and heavier? I don't think you will ever see a 4 stroke win a snow cross race. Weight is a huge factor in these races. 2 strokes are far superior in the power to weight dept. 4 strokes are more about longevity, lack of maintenance,and oil free exhaust.

I think that a 600 2 stroke racing a 1000 4 stroke is EXTREMELY fair to the 2 stroke guy. Think about it..... same power, but the 2 stroke is much lighter.
The bottom line is this......the 2 stroke can't handle the endurance. If Yamaha was to build a 600 four stroke at say 80 hp. and was to race it against a 120 hp polaris 600 2 stroke, and they made the race a 3000 km cross country race, the poo wouldn't even make it to the finish line. The Yamaha would pass them at the 500 km mark and wave as the Poo team was rebuilding thier engine.
The only reason why the try to match up hp, instead of displacement, is to keep the racing interesting for the fans.
Yamaha just happens to make 4 strokes. But my old Yammi 2 stroke hit the 10000 km mark yesterday. I'd like to talk to some of you guys with brand new 2 strokes when your sled's hit the 10000 km mark and find out how much money you've had to spend to get it there. Other than routine plugs, sliders, carbides, track, etc. my Yammi did it all on her own. Never blown a seal, gasket, piston, NEVER even had a carb rebuild!!! Oh yeah, and out of the 10000 km's, only about 3000 of it was long ride touring. Most of the km's were fishing and short riding. Rough trails, lots of powder and slush, etc.
Bottom line is this.....where Yamaha may lack on appearance, suspension, and speed, it's engines are, and always will be the BEST! Just look through the list of sled recals.......
Don't worry guys......when your 100 mph 2 stroke finally breaks down on the lake, you can bet there'll be a Yammi comming up around the bend to tow you home.

Just like in motocross, where they let 450 four strokes runs with 250 2 strokes, they're giving the 4 strokes a huge advantage over the 2 strokes, and then when they win people say 'look how great 4 strokes are, they can beat a sled half their size!' I wonder who thinks up these 4 stroke displacemenet rules for racing.. probably someone from the sierra club or greanpeace...
[/b]
You really should read more about how the 2 engine styles work to make horsepower before you talk about this.

I think that a 600 2 stroke racing a 1000 4 stroke is EXTREMELY fair to the 2 stroke guy. Think about it..... same power, but the 2 stroke is much lighter.
[/b]

It's not the same power! An Apex is putting out 150 horse, a stock 600 twin is 115-120.

Hah! in every other thread about yamaha four strokes, all the yamaha fans try to say how much more power the yamaha 4 strokes make, but now all of a sudden they make the same power as a 600 2 stroke. I guess all the threads I read about yamaha 4 strokes beating F7s, 800 Revs, and Mach Zs must have been a bunch of BS.
On the yamaha website they claim 150 hp. for the 1000. I'm not sure what they're claiming for a 600 2 stroke these days, but I remember my 800 was only advertised at 138 or something like that, so I'm guessing a 600 made a few years later is not advertised at anything close to 150 HP... Even if max H.P. was the same, the torque curves aren't... but how could they be, the four stroke has a 400cc advantage...

Ok.....how about the 2006 Vector GT?
Type: 4 Stroke, 973cc - 120 HP

and the Polaris Switchback 600 H.O.?
Type: 2 Stroke, 599cc - 120 HP

I guess all the threads I read about yamaha 4 strokes beating F7s, 800 Revs, and Mach Zs must have been a bunch of BS.
[/b]

They're not beating them because they have huge horsepower advantages, they're beating them because of Yamaha's infamous powerband that acts as though it's never gonna stop picking up speed. In a short run, there isn't a stock yamaha 4 stroke out there that'll touch an F7 or an 800 REV. But in a 1/4 mile, or longer, it's a different story. On top of that, you can run a 4 stroke at WOT MUCH MUCH longer than a 2 stroke without blowing the motor.

Bottom line is..... when it comes to endurance, there isn't a sled out there that can touch a Yamaha, and all the people who spent mega bucks on a 100 mph crotch rocket can't handle the fact that Yamaha won some type of race. Take the blinders off and realise.....in snowX or 1000 ft (which isn't even 1/4 mile), the yamaha's won't touch your Poos, Doos, and Cats. Endurance racing is a totally different sport. And to be honest with you, Yamaha's main selling feature is their reliability......if they weren't winning endurance races, then there'd be something wrong.

And to be honest with you, Yamaha's main selling feature is their reliability......if they weren't winning endurance races, then there'd be something wrong.
[/b]

That must be why they've won so many I-500s in the past.

It was a good race. I knew Yamaha would win though I was cheering for Polaris. Yamaha has been creapin up on those Polaris sleds the last couple of years. POlaris has dominated that race for about 20yrs. Last time Yamaha won that race was back in 1983. Here's a few pics I took for your viewing pleasure :cool:

I was just informed of this incident. Read story below



I-500 track survives, one driver dies

By JACK STOREY/The Evening News

Story created Feb 04, 2006 - 20:58:52 EST.



SAULT STE. MARIE - An I-500 track that was the topic of quiet worries through the run-up to Saturday's endurance race survived well enough through warm conditions to carry half the field through the full distance.

While the track held out through the race, one driver's heart apparently did not. Rosebush, Mich. driver Joe Burch was riding down the backstretch when he apparently suffered a coronary and fell from his machine. Burch's machine was not apparently involved in a collision on the backstretch section hidden from spectator view by snow piles.

Emergency medical technicians on the scene were apparently unable to revive the driver, who was later pronounced dead at War Memorial Hospital. He was 44.

Although the mile-oval track's ice surface gave way to frozen clay in spots half-way through the 500-mile distance, drivers were able to skirt a large brown patch in the north turn through the bulk of the distance race.

Before the race, I-500 officials indicated the race could continue on “frozen clay” so long as the track did not turn muddy and obscure driver vision.


Despite daytime temperatures that reached 37 degrees, most of the iced track remained in ice and snow without the large puddles that sometimes develop in warm-weather races.

Prior to the race, I-500 officials worried that the ice surface would not hold up through 500 miles. Normally flooded and frozen to 12-18 inches, the iced surface was reportedly about half its normal thickness by race day.

Citing “family” considerations, I-500 and city Fire Department officials refused to confirm Burch's death in the unusual track incident. An I-500 spokeswoman would say only that, “The accident was not race related.” She would not confirm that a death had occurred.

Shortly after the race was slowed under a caution flag as the city ambulance moved to the backstretch location where Burch was found, the track announcer erroneously indicated a driver had only fallen off a racing sled.

Burch died about midway through the race at about lap 247 of the 500-lap endurance run.



Another driver was injured earlier in the race, when he apparently lost control of his sled on a humped portion of the track just outside the south turn.

I think that a 600 2 stroke racing a 1000 4 stroke is EXTREMELY fair to the 2 stroke guy. Think about it..... same power, but the 2 stroke is much lighter.
The bottom line is this......the 2 stroke can't handle the endurance. If Yamaha was to build a 600 four stroke at say 80 hp. and was to race it against a 120 hp polaris 600 2 stroke, and they made the race a 3000 km cross country race, the poo wouldn't even make it to the finish line. The Yamaha would pass them at the 500 km mark and wave as the Poo team was rebuilding thier engine.
The only reason why the try to match up hp, instead of displacement, is to keep the racing interesting for the fans.
Yamaha just happens to make 4 strokes. But my old Yammi 2 stroke hit the 10000 km mark yesterday. I'd like to talk to some of you guys with brand new 2 strokes when your sled's hit the 10000 km mark and find out how much money you've had to spend to get it there. Other than routine plugs, sliders, carbides, track, etc. my Yammi did it all on her own. Never blown a seal, gasket, piston, NEVER even had a carb rebuild!!! Oh yeah, and out of the 10000 km's, only about 3000 of it was long ride touring. Most of the km's were fishing and short riding. Rough trails, lots of powder and slush, etc.
Bottom line is this.....where Yamaha may lack on appearance, suspension, and speed, it's engines are, and always will be the BEST! Just look through the list of sled recals.......
Don't worry guys......when your 100 mph 2 stroke finally breaks down on the lake, you can bet there'll be a Yammi comming up around the bend to tow you home.
[/b]

What are the tourqe numbers from a 4 stroke vs a 2 stroke?

I think the 4 stroke will have way more tourqe than a 2 stroke.

But my old Yammi 2 stroke hit the 10000 km mark yesterday. I'd like to talk to some of you guys with brand new 2 strokes when your sled's hit the 10000 km mark and find out how much money you've had to spend to get it there. Other than routine plugs, sliders, carbides, track, etc. my Yammi did it all on her own. Never blown a seal, gasket, piston, NEVER even had a carb rebuild!!! Oh yeah, and out of the 10000 km's, only about 3000 of it was long ride touring. Most of the km's were fishing and short riding. Rough trails, lots of powder and slush, etc.
Bottom line is this.....where Yamaha may lack on appearance, suspension, and speed, it's engines are, and always will be the BEST! Just look through the list of sled recals.......
Don't worry guys......when your 100 mph 2 stroke finally breaks down on the lake, you can bet there'll be a Yammi comming up around the bend to tow you home.
[/b]


Take a breath .... and come and talk to ME when your Yammi tops 24,000 kilometers .... The 583 Rotax has been the benchmark 2 stroke engine for performance and relaibility since it's inception. I'm not sseing any 2 stroke yammi motors in the ultra lights where reliability is somewhat more important than sledding.

Oh yeah, it would do 100 mph and then some ..... while looking good and handling just as well.

Hey ... Yamaha makes a great motor no doubt, and I'm even considering a 4 stroker for my next sled, but if we're talking 2 stroke reliability yammy is no further ahead than any other mfgr ... especially rotax.

Take a breath .... and come and talk to ME when your Yammi tops 24,000 kilometers [/b]

I am working on a human interest story right now for SW that more than doubles the above mileage. More to come soon :dazed:

Perm

That must be why they've won so many I-500s in the past.
[/b]
:D :blahblah:

I am working on a human interest story right now for SW that more than doubles the above mileage. More to come soon :dazed:

Perm
[/b]

How about that guy that was featured in "Cat's Pride" who had like 65,000 miles on an old Cougar? I wish I could stay happy riding old iron like that for so long, so I wouldn't spend so much damn money on this sport! LOL!

Ok.....how about the 2006 Vector GT?
Type: 4 Stroke, 973cc - 120 HP

and the Polaris Switchback 600 H.O.?
Type: 2 Stroke, 599cc - 120 HP
[/b]

You might want to compare it to the Vector instead of an Apex, but the Soo rules don't specify anything more than cc's, so obviously nobody is going to take a Vector instead of an Apex, and the Apex is 150 ponies, not 120.

Here are the rules; read for yourself:
Four stroke engines
Snowmobiles with naturally aspirated four-stroke engines will be classified by their displacement divided by 1.75. (For example a 1000cc 4-stroke will be classified into the 600cc class.)
http://i-500.com/documents/2006_I-500_Rules.pdf

Take a breath .... and come and talk to ME when your Yammi tops 24,000 kilometers .... The 583 Rotax has been the benchmark 2 stroke engine for performance and relaibility since it's inception. I'm not sseing any 2 stroke yammi motors in the ultra lights where reliability is somewhat more important than sledding.

Oh yeah, it would do 100 mph and then some ..... while looking good and handling just as well.

Hey ... Yamaha makes a great motor no doubt, and I'm even considering a 4 stroker for my next sled, but if we're talking 2 stroke reliability yammy is no further ahead than any other mfgr ... especially rotax.
[/b]

OK I will top ya

My STX 583 17,098kms when I sold it NO rebuilds

My SRV 540 27,000kms no rebuilds

My 01 ZR 600 7700miles and 2mag cylinders,3 pistons and still running strong :p

Point is they are well taking care of they will last :thumbsup:

As for people whining that Yamaha won the race with 1000cc vs 600cc

GIVE IT UP

The Yamahas are also lugging 100LBS more weight

Some people take this stuff too seriously as if its going to affect their income and their lifestyle because Yamaha won

Some of You really think Yamaha can't compete in snowcross with a 4-stroke? Go check out Yamaha's website on Monday when the 07's are unveiled. The clock is ticking on your 2-smokes :hallo1:

The ignorance among snowmobilers about 2-strokes and 4-strokes is mind boggling. Why should a 2-stroke have to compete against a larger 4-stroke? It's how they make power. It's not simply one has oil mixed with the gas and the other doesn't. A 2-stroke makes power one every stroke. The 4-stroke makes power every other stroke. If the engineers doe the job right, a 2-stroke can make twice the power a 4-stroke can of the same size.

Concerning torque. The current 4-strokes are not torque monsters as some think. Several 2-stroke models make a higher peak amount of torque. The advantage of the 4-stroke is it has a much wider torque band. A greater range of rpm's they make good torque. That's why the acceleration feel of the 2-stroke feels like it's stronger. The power hits later in the rpms. The 4-S power starts early and stays late so it is far smoother without the big "hit".

Yes, some 2-S engines will last a long time if one is careful with them. Proper maintenance and lack of abuse goes a long way. The 583 Rotax is a good eaxample, and the original Series 3 600 (now in the 500ss models) is pretty good too. The HO versions of the Series 3 engines have not been stellar in being bullet proof. Too soon to tell about the 05 and 06 versions.

BTW, the Soo I-500, 1st raced in 1969, is on a one mile oval, unlike any other oval track that varies from a ⅓ mile to ½ mile. That's 500 miles for the race. The Apex and RX-1 do have more horsepower, but a whole lot more weight, too. The 600 2-S engines are modified, not stock, as a rule. and their weight advantage can be closer to 150 pounds. They have to really beef up the front suspension on the Yamahas to takke the huge forces involved in high speed cornering. On the right ski that can be a lot more than landings in sno-x. The weight of the 4-S machines wears the drivers down a lot more than the 2-S sleds which is a big factor in enduro racing. More strain on the whole sled. It is a fair race between them. Yamaha 4-S sleds have been racing the last 3 years in MIRA, the enduro circuit. They have some wins, but Polaris has won more in the same time frame and a Skidoo is dominating this year. It came in 3rd at the Soo and won the other 2 MIRA races that have been run, so far. They ar racing near Alpena, MI, right now. Corey Dividson, who won with Yamaha this year, is now a 6 time I-500 winner, now, and Krikke has won twice. Except for this year, all on Polaris. Yamaha has yet to win the points title in MIRA and won't this year, either.

So I say learn the facts and quit whining about the imaginary unfair advantage a 4-stroke snowmobile has.