Now before ya get yer panties in a bunch, this isn't one of those argue over who is faster than who, posts. Basically last time we were out we raced and he beat me pretty solid. I have a 96 Ultra SP with SLP pipes, needles, and a clutch kit that was suggested to me by a few guys on this board. I believe the helix is a 50-36 and the springs are white primary, and red secondary, but i could be off on the springs. He rides a 2002 Edge X 600 with a boost bottle and Larry Rugland pipes. Basically he outruns me to 40 or so mph, then we stay the same distance basically apart, prolly 3 sled lengths, till bout 90mph when i very slowly start making ground, I might have been able to pass him but we ran out of room a little over 100mph. I am just curious is this basically the way the two sleds should run against eachother, or is mine getting tired, or maybe in need of some clutch adjustments. I know there are some experts around here so let me know what you think, am I not getting the most out of my sled, or is his just gonna be faster. I don't need to be the fastest in the world, but I would sure like to get what I can out of the sled I have.
Wayne

WOW - the EDGE X is that fast? Anything could be the factor what could be wrong with your sled. For one, how long have you have that SLP pipes with your sled? How many miles is your motor? Clutch worn-out? The list can go on. The reason I am pinpointed at that because your sled is a 1996. Im willing to bet, if you freshen your motor with new pistons and rings, your sled would prolly run better and stronger (and faster) I remembered when Ultra first came out and with aftermarket pipes, those suckers were running down most 800s during that time. If you cant beat the EdgeX, then you got problems. One last thing, did you remove the RRSS blocks out before racing your buddy? That should help & improve your holeshot - anyone? WL.

The sled has around 4800 miles on it. that was the first winter with the pipes. After i swapped the clutches, I actually think it was almond primary, not white, the sled seemed slower. I believe Tifa and steve 800 made the suggestion on the setup. how much would having too light of weights in the primary affect this. I did nothing to the suspension. I know i get some track spin but my ski's don't really lift all that much either. We did have the heads off a week before we run it, and the cylindars all looked pretty good. Would the pistons and rings go bad without showing any wear on the sleeves? What on the clutch can wear out? I installed the springs, and helix that same winter. Thanks for the help. It sounds like you are suggesting my sled should be able to run with him then...
Wayne

With that many miles, your sled may still run decent, but with new pistons and rings - I think it would run a bit better on a 11 years old motor. Being the clutch is also 11 years old and if it had never had never been touch - its a time to do the rebuild. If you cant get your skis to lift, then the setup in the suspension isnt giving you enough weight transfer. Loosen up your limited scrap almost all the way out (if you dont have studs) take the RRSS blocks out. If you do have studs, depending on how many you have, put the blocks in the lowest settings. Again, anything can be a factor of why your sled isnt up to its par and its tough to send you to the right direction, without taking a look at your sled. WL.

If this works, this is a picture of the sled launching on ice with about 3-4 inches of cover. don't know if it will help but maybe you can see what kinda spin and ski lift i am getting.

You're describing a pretty common scenario. Heavy sled with a low profile track against a lighter sled capable of much more weight transfer, and likely with a taller profile track to boot. Big difference in weight of the drivers?

The weight difference between us is less than 10 lbs, prolly closer to 5lbs. His track does have that deeper lug track with 144 picks, My track is in need of a swap and the studs aren't worth a damn either really. But the sled still just doesn't seem to have the go juice even if i did hook up. Could this be a lot of up shifting to compensate the spin? I am pretty confident in the motor, as compression is all three around 130 and the pipe gauges all read almost exactly the same temp when running. I was told by tons of people my sled should run him down pretty well, but people talk...
Wayne

<<<Could this be a lot of up shifting to compensate the spin? >>>

Just keep an eye on your tach for a couple of runs to convince yourself what&#39;s going on here. You should know about what it should be turning to make good power. If it&#39;s staying in that range - it&#39;s not likely your clutching that&#39;s the issue.

As far as the condition of the motor, if it has that kind of compression, I don&#39;t think you&#39;re going to see much difference in power after topping it.

IMHO - if you want to stay with that twin - you&#39;re going to need to get used to the idea of getting a different sled. Yes, maybe you could eventually get yours set to do a good job, but at what cost? And likely, even if you did get your sled to stay with him in a drag, the twin will still kick your butt in the bumps and tighter twisties..... There is no way you&#39;re going to get around the difference in weight, track, and suspension issues.

I can live with being slower, I just wanted to be sure that my sled is running the way it should. If I can&#39;t beat him, I can&#39;t beat him. Just makin sure these are the facts rather than ride the sled, and eventually replace it when it was perfectly capable.
Wayne

the engines themselves have alot to do with it the ultra is a triple and the edge is a twin. Twins has more power right off the get go but a triple has a long high range. the ultra will go faster but the edge will accelerate faster

the XTRA 10 in your Ultra was not really known for a good transfer :sly:

I think I found out my big issues, first I didn&#39;t time the sled, so before this winter I will have it timed for the pipes. Second I hear I need to go with a heavier weight in the primary. Finally The Track (I knew this) needs replacement bad... So next question, anyone know how deep a lug I can get away with on it?
Thanx for all the info,
Wayne

before putting heavier or lighter weights find what is the shift rpm(max power)

I would gather it needs to be around 9000rpm with pipes

check with pipe manufacture on the recomended top rpm

Yeah I did, it said 8100-8200 rpm&#39;s for max power.
Wayne

first xtra 10 has great transfer second and the large track you could put under it would probably be 1.5 incher but 1.25 is way easier to find

I agree the Xtra-10 has good weight transfer if properly set up, but the Edge has even more. It&#39;s easier to set up to your exact suspension needs.

The 1.25 track is a good idea too.

FWIW though, I would hesitate to spend the money to change tracks, then stud it.

I would first carefully check the expense of going through that vs. what it would cost to switch to a newer Edge generation (or Gen II w/Edge conversion) sled. First obvious benefit would be suspension - but the often overlooked one would be the headlight.......no more riding in your own shadow at night when you have a newer machine behind you - a major issue with the Wedge when riding at night. Newer machines have much more wattage avaialble. The single biggest reason I relutantly stopped messing with the Wedge body type.

I&#39;ll tell you how to stop some of the track spin......The picture of you launching shows you standing up near the front of the sled....Try putting your butt in the seat, at the back of the sled !!! I promise some of the spinning will stop and it will help you with weight transfer as you slid up the seat after the launch. :thumbsup:

that picture is a tad decieving, as he caught me in a mid tug, i was trying to slam back on the sled like you will often see guys at drags do to get some bite. but when i took off on that run i was sitting on the hump at the back of the sled.

As for gettin a newer sled, I&#39;d like to but when i compare costs i figure $350 for a track, $100 for clutching mods, so say $500, vs. the cost of a edge (gen II is heavier, and #### ugly) for say $2500 if I get a deal. $2000 difference and really I like the ultra just wasn&#39;t sure it was running right, cause I have seen others with very simular setups outrunning SRX 700&#39;s on the lake, something mine couldn&#39;t begin to do. I got some info and it sounds like I missed a few things. so I&#39;ll do them, buy the track and hopefully get full potential out of the sled. Like I said don&#39;t need to be fastest, just want to get out of my sled what it has. I&#39;d sure love to buy a Pro-X 600 but I can&#39;t talk myself into spending an extra $2000 on a 3-4 month sport especially with the rise in gas prices. My budget won&#39;t allow it.
Wayne

<<<< $2500 if I get a deal. $2000 difference >>>

Wayne, do what you like, this is just a suggestion. But it sounds like you are not figuring what you might be able to get when you sell your sled, appyling that money towards the difference? Believe me, I understand what a budget is.....

if you really want weight transfer you can take the rear scissor block off xtra 10 suspensions it takes one bolt on each side and you can put them back in about a minute second loosen the front limiting strap and tighten the rear also tighten the preload on the ski shocks and the front track shock

I may be wrong but with pipes, I thought Ultra revs target is at about 8.5k to 8.7k If that sled was mine - Id run 1 inch track with anywhere from 168 to 192 studs, depending on the budget. Triples are more a revver so you dont want to go too heavy on the weights and have the motor pull flat.
If you were racing in 500&#39; - the 600 twin would get the most jump in the lead and win - if it was anything over 1k feet, then I would expect the Ultra to win with the right setup. Like I said it all before - everything is the factor and how its all setup. WL.

you want transfer get a 93 ITS rear skid

in 96 when they put the Xtra 10(coupling) they lost lots of the tranfer for better ride quality

BTW your RPMs are too low at 8100

here is a link to a guy with an Ultra and SLP pipes

he figures 8700rpm
http://www.snowmobilefanatics.com/forum/to...?TOPIC_ID=46972 (http://www.snowmobilefanatics.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=46972)

so like I mentioned that might be your problem also

so instead of the 8100rpm SLP pipes you might have the 8700rpm SLP pipes

I definately have the Lower RPM pipes good for like 145hp or something like that, and SLP recomends 8100 RPM&#39;s for it http://www.startinglineproducts.com/techni...fm?listingID=78 (http://www.startinglineproducts.com/technical.cfm?listingID=78)
Page 5. That guy is running the high rpm pipes, something I wish I had... Thanks a ton for the help guys.
Wayne

you want transfer get a 93 ITS rear skid

in 96 when they put the Xtra 10(coupling) they lost lots of the tranfer for better ride quality

BTW your RPMs are too low at 8100

here is a link to a guy with an Ultra and SLP pipes

he figures 8700rpm
http://www.snowmobilefanatics.com/forum/to...?TOPIC_ID=46972 (http://www.snowmobilefanatics.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=46972)

so like I mentioned that might be your problem also

so instead of the 8100rpm SLP pipes you might have the 8700rpm SLP pipes
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im realty the coupling is controled by the limiting straps. This is how the suspension is designed they tried very hard to get the best of both world but it really didnt happen how they wanted it. Really you can get just as much transfer from it as you can from anything else, you just have to know how to do it but to do it, it highly affects ride quality in other areas.

<<<im realty the coupling is controled by the limiting straps.>>>

Nope. Coupling is controlled by the block location (if they exist). Limiting straps do what they say - they limit the amount of travel caused by the block location....

For proof, let your straps out all the way with the rear block up tight against the link. See how much transfer you get.

it was in reality sorry but yes the position of the rear bolck does do some but really it contols the wieght transfer and the stiffness no matter how loose the limiting strap is to a point it is coupled this is also true with any suspension the limiting strap controls the angle of the travel which controls how the coupling works this is yes also affected my how the positions of both the front and rear block are located but they just affect the angle at which it starts and ends also the coupling is affected by the tie bars on both sides of the rear suspension this is what allow you to have weight transer, remain coupled, and not use much travel to have weight transfer so yes you are right but only to a point im not trying to argue with you im just trying to descrip how mathmatically the whole suspension works it is all and angle game that is a mcuh more complicated process than most people snowmobiling understand also the amount of coupling on the suspension is changed do to the preload,stifness, and angle of the front shock the xrta 10 suspension allows you to move the front shock to and upper position( can also tighten and losses limiting straps) this reduces the coupleing and lightes stearing this is want polaris recommends using in deep snow condition because you get more transfer to get up on top of the snow and makes stearing easier so the angles at which both the front and rear arms sit at is what overall affects coupling