Almost all of the guys I ride w/ on a regular basis ride Poloris, everytime I update my sled they do the same but go bigger, (It really doesn't matter, my 600 is keeping up w/ their 700's and beating them most of the time) but this year their talking about getting the XC800 and I don't think my 600 is going be able to keep up. I am sure the F7 would probably smoke this sled, but I am still debating on the ZR900 or the F7. I was told the F7 will keep right up w/ the ZR9 untill 100mph, so is it really worth spending the extra money on the ZR900?



Last edited by Snow Monkey at Oct 17 2002, 12:32 PM

It's probably more a matter of riding style than speed. Buy what fits your need, you want a lake blaster/trail sled or a ditch banger? Either way, dont think you can go wrong, and I would consider the ZR8 in there too.

I didn't consider the 800 because the 700 is making the same est. horsepower and is 70 lbs. lighter.. I don't consider the 900 twin a lake blaster, although it may be, if I wanted a lake blaster I would buy a triple.

Heres my take on the two sleds.
The ZR-9 has proven brute force performance while still producing incredible fuel mileage especially for its displacement. Its a very capable trailer carver/ditch banger but is just as at home blasting down your favorite lake or canal. Hard to go wrong with this one.
The F-Series may turn out to be the "Arctic Cats Meow" but in reality all the bench racing in the world is no substitute for Joe Blow normal putting in some seat time to see just how it really performs/handles. The other question is have they tested long enough to work the bugs out or have you just paid to be a test dummy. As with all other first year sleds or any vehicle for that matter there will likely be several updates/changes made part way through the first year and certainly for the second. Making the second years sled the better buy, in most cases.
I guess it comes down to what suits you and do you feel lucky.
Enjoy Rick.

in reality all the bench racing in the world is no substitute for Joe Blow normal putting in some seat time to see just how it really performs/handles.

------
I agree with just about everything but this part of the last post.

Consider this. The majority of the sled components have had a year of Sno-Cross racing which is the most brutal form of racing available. With sleds doing increadable jumps and hill climbing, there's not much left to be "tested" by the average Joe out there.

If your planning on getting into drag racing, and it sounds like that's not your goal. Then the 900 will have more performance enhancements to the raw horsepower for less money than the F7.

If you weigh over 220, then there's an added $400 or so expense of upgrading shocks and springs on the F7.

If your riding in high wind conditions on mostly open trails with large sweeping curves, then the ZR900 is fine. Of course it's fine for many other conditions also, just not as good for "ditch banging" applications.

But consider this. If your looking for the ultimate light weight sled and something that has a narrow footprint, the F7 is going to shine there. The narrower track should make it an interesting sled for sidehilling compared to other "wider" footprint sleds. Also the lightweight sled is usually a thing that hillclimbers want. And how can you beat the power to weight of an F7. Yeah you can buy a dedicated hillclimber with a huge 900 like twin and a cut chassis and get perhaps better power to weight, but it's going to cost a LOT more money.

If on the other hand your riding in trails mostly under 100 MPH and with a lot of traffic. . . bumps and twists and curves. Then the f7 will be the sled to be on. If you've been on a superlightweight ditch banger and enjoyed the fun of going over bumps by "Braaping" the front end up and motoring over the moguls, then the F7 is the sled to be on. If you like to do more stand up and jumps, then the F7 is the sled for you. If your more into touring and long distance riding, well it won't be bad to be on an F7, but for guys who want the traditional "big sled" feel, the ZR900 is still out there as a great option. I don't think any of the "teething" problems that could occur will be very big on the F7. Shoot in the "worse case" scenario that I could think of, let's say the case of engine jugs failing like on the 99 ZR600's with casting defects. Well those really huge teething problems are handled by the warrenty and in the worse case scenario take a weekend or two out of your season. If you ride every weekend, it would not be as much of a risk. I'm stating this last thing as an example of what can happen. I happened to have a ZR600 2000 Blair Morgan Special Edition sled. At 2500 miles one of my jugs had a piece break off and the motor was granaded. That was 13 days out of warrenty and AC took care of the problem and I basically got a completely rebuilt engine. That was on a "good year" ZR, not a "bad year" one. So these things can crop up, but as you probably already know AC will stand by you as the customer.

You can't really go wrong with either one. I think if you weigh under 180, the F7 will have the advantage over the ZR900 in drags and handling.

I weigh 135, I'm looking forward to drag racing guys on ZR900's this year, not to mention dustin' the occasional SRX.

Greg

Good points Atomicat,
By the sounds of your post your the proud owner of an F-Cat.....congrats. Racing does bring most of a sleds short comings to light but I'll bet the factory is always amazed at the number of problems that crop up once "Joe Blow Normal" gets command of the flipper. In some aspects racers are easier on a sled. Joe Blow is the kind of guy that never warms the sled up before giving it flipper madness, nor is he very likely to look the sled over after each ride warding off potential problems from something that is just starting to come loose. After buy a couple of first year sleds (98 ZR-600 and '99 ZR-700) I've become content to own the newest/greatest/bestest sled the season after Joe Blow has had a chance to break his first.
I do however, wish you and all others that bought F-Cats the best.

Go with the ZR-900. Too many things were breaking on the snow-pros last year from what I have heard from guys that raced them.

If you get the ZR900 you will be expected to win and they will get an excuse.
With the F7 you are the smaller engined sled and it will be alot more fun when you win. I ride with 2 MXZ 800s,a Viper and Zl800ss.
I think the boys are worried

As they should be.

Originally posted by Canadian Firecat@Oct 17 2002, 04:16 PM
If you get the ZR900 you will be expected to win and they will get an excuse.

Very true, and the same went for the T-cat. When you win everyone says you SHOULD win to the smaller sled, if you loose, even to a modded smaller cc sled, no excuse is good enough.
That's why I don't intend to loose on this 900!!hehe :devil:

I went with the 900 mainly because first year sleds worry me. Also on spring orders I got a 2 yr warranty. The firecat should be fun. In a few years I may get one. By that time it will be as reliable as the ZR chassis. I know what I am getting for my $7k+.

One thing you guys didn't mention was the difference between last years sno pro and the new f-series is that last year's sno pro's were smaller build numbers on a different production line. There will be new problems caused by changes made to be assembled in LARGE quantities. I could be wrong, but I think that factors in to the reliability issue. Not to mention that the racers, not only do the beat the crap out of their sleds, do much more care and wrench turning than most regular riders. That's another factor.

I hope I meet someone on the trail this year with a F-7 that would be willing to swap me for a short ride! Then I can see what I did, or did not, miss out on! I just have to watch out, cause once he get's on it he'll like it so much and try to make off with it, then I won't be able to catch him on that little 700! :p

Also no one knows how these (Firecats) will hold up after the miles pile up. Racing them is one thing, but you don't get the mileage as you do on the trails. I went with the 900 for the same reason jayjay did, the motor is not all that much different from the 800 which has been out a few years now and the chassi is well proven over the years. That's not to say the 900 won't have problems, but I think there is less of a chance of that happening.
I am also used to triples and to me the 900 is closer to a triple than the F7.



Last edited by phazerhater at Oct 17 2002, 07:49 PM

I just wanted to add that yes I did purchase a Patriot F7 Standard Firecat. (see Greg's F7 on www.hardcoresledder.com sled gallery to see the pictures.)

My last sled was a 2000 ZR600 and also I had a 1998 T-Cat with trail ported, clutch kit and vforce enhancements. A 1000cc smooth triple with TONS of bullet like power. It always launched, and I mean launched like an aircraft carrier with missles powering it. Yes the big sleds for cruising are nice. However I ride and enjoy the twisted mogul infested trails that are narrow and occasional power lines. That's my personal preference for fun riding.

It's very fun to open it up with a lightweight sled and go over the big crappy (darn I wish they groomed this trail) stuff with a lightweight Sno-Pro chassis. I've ridden my friends ZR440 Sno-pro over these and my ZR600 and there is a big difference, and that difference is mostly related to front end weight on the skis in my opinion. The Sno-Pro and firecats are lighter, so they will pop over the moguls at a much higher speed. But lightness does have a disavantage at times, I'm not going to get into that story. . . trying to keep this short.

Yeah we all like and enjoy groomed trails, but to me having a sled that I can ride on the crappy stuff also is part of the fun and one of the irrestistable reasons I went with the lightweight F7. I know the ZR's are good to, but I've ridden a lightweight Sno-Pro 440 and the lightness at times counts for something.

Yes I agree there is nothing like the feeling of having a complete bullet of a sled. I had a complete trail bullet for a season (a second sled). The T-Cat totally rocked, hitting the throttle would cause the thing to launch into the next level of speed at seemingly any speed. (Believe it or not I don't lake race and never had the T-Cat over 110 MPH even on the lake. I had to get the T-Cat anyway because I rode my friends and just had to have that kind of power once in my life for drag racing thrills. I liked the powerful takeoffs it had.) But realistically for a 135lb guy the T-Cat was way to heavy and powerful for my typical trail riding day. I spend most of the time on twisted trails going under 60 miles an hour. Rail trails are just to get to the "fun twisted" trails in my mind. Many TCat guys love long straightaways and high speed touring, it's a matter of personal choice obviously.

A problem was one weekend I threw my back out moving that "Tank" of a TCat. Since I only weigh 135 lbs and lifted the beast using partial consentration on the lifting, threw my back out and ruined a three day weekend. My back was kind of injured for a few weeks and I had to take it easy on the trails, doing more stand up for the next few weekends. All because of a heavy sled and my lack of weight/strength. So I sold it to avoid those future "throw my back out" problems.

Now when a guy my size who likes Sno-Pros, light sleds, weighs only 135 lbs sees a sled that I can pick up the back end with ONE ARM and it has 140 horses. I just had to get it.

I'm sure the ZR900 is a great sled and the two year warrenty deal in the spring was very tempting to me also. I can't really see anything bad about a ZR900. (I hope to see them in my wrist mirror. . . lol.) I just had to have the closest thing to an open mod sno-pro for low bucks out there and that's what I have in the Patriot F7 sitting at home awaiting the first snow fall.

I can hardly wait.

i would say go with a f7 because you will get a bigger kick outa nailing down a 800 with a 700 then you would with beating one with a 900 but the f7 is a great all around sled so i would say to go witht he f7 and save a few dollars for mods :D

I would go with the XCR 800. I still say it is the best triple on the market for handling and weight.

I also am the proud new owner of the ZR900. I was considering the same 2 sleds as u. Weighing in at about 145lbs. I thought what the h#ll, I prefer the older musclecar type feel compared to the newer lighter feel of a sports car. But thats my personal preference. So I may be doing the superman flying thru the air impression screamin across the lake but, hey, My motto " Go big or stay at home" But like the other guys have said, What type of riding should determine your choice, Either way, Good Luck.

F-7 dry per cat is 465 and 900 is 515 I believe so it's 50 not 70 lbs difference. All the mags have stated that unless you love trowing a sled around in ditches to go for the 900 that is basically the same price. The reason is that that extra weight keeps the front end weighted and balanced so it doesn't have to be man handled, most noticable on 100 mile plus rides. You can find killer deals on leftover '02 zr800 efi cross country edition sleds I bet.
Caleb

Originally posted by Sled Dogg@Oct 23 2002, 09:56 PM
F-7 dry per cat is 465 and 900 is 515 I believe so it's 50 not 70 lbs difference.
Not a big deal, but thought I'd point out that the 900 is 507 dry. ;)

Hey Phazerhater, it's a big deal! About $1000 to spend on light weight parts lol.
Caleb

Good point!LOL Although the east thing to replace to save weight on that 900 is the brick they use for a silencer. Friggen thing weights almost 20lbs!!! :0:

I just wanted to provide some information. I am not by any means saying that the 900 is better or the F7 is better. I think that they are two different sleds that give you two different kind of rides. And jayjaysin if you are riding up in the Old Forge / Tug Hill / Inlet areas this winter, I will be glad to trade sleds with you for a couple of miles.

The F7 dry was reported by GLS as 458 and then I think Cat Rounded to 460. According to Cat's website the 900 weighs 507 dry. But of course Cat also estimates the dry weight of the F7 at 435. So I am wondering, has anyone ever weighed their ZR900? Cat made such a big deal about the weight savings on the F7 and then missed their mark by 25 pounds. I wonder how close or far off the ZR900 is?

Regardless we are talking about the ZR900 giving up 47 lbs to the F7 and the F7 missing 10 hp that the 900 has. So then doing all the physics and math, the sleds are very close at least from a horsepower standpoint. (correct me if I am wrong but 10 lbs = 1 horse power). I would still think that the ZR900 has the definite advantage especially with the torque it has.

As far as reliablity goes, of course the advantage goes to the 900. It has been around longer and has more seat time, plus the 900 is just an improvement on existing Cat technology.

The F7 is new in a lot of different places. If you haven't gotten a chance to look under the hood of one yet, closely, you should, it is freaky. There are just a lot of technology changes and elimination of multiple parts. Like the exhaust manifold / collector being one piece and also serves as an exahust piple mount. (You have to see it to understand what I am saying.)

Here is what GLS said about reliability.

"GLS-questions on Firecat prototype testing and reliability


gls on 10/19/2002 7:08:00 AM
It's difficult to give you an exact number, because so many were run, but over 20 sleds in differdnt groups and conditions just last year, probably averaged between 4000-5000mi. each. Reliability was very good."

So hey, enjoy you sled. Try to ride someones ZR900 or F7 this winter so you can see what we are all experiencing with our sleds, and then, Cat willing, next year we will all be riding F11 Hellcats!!!




:thumbsup:

Mcali...points well taken but just because the 9 has been around longer and has more seat time doesnt make it more reliable than the F7. Only time will tell. I am sure BOTH sleds will be a thrill to ride. Thats the beauty of it, take your pick.

[quote]But of course Cat also estimates the dry weight of the F7 at 435. So I am wondering, has anyone ever weighed their ZR900? Cat made such a big deal about the weight savings on the F7 and then missed their mark by 25 pounds. I wonder how close or far off the ZR900 is?

[quote]


mcali17- it was the prototype models that weighed 435 pounds dry but according greg spaulding after extensive testing most of the weight was gained with the larger heat exchanger because in testing in certain conditions not necessarily low snow but in certain high humidity conditions an ice dam was created between the rear heat exchanger and the track causing an open air conditions and cutting off efficient cooling

another piece that increased weight was an air box built thicker because the intake noise was a little too noisy for their taste and just other extra chassis reinforcements and other various things

i would rather have a heavier sled that is better built than a light one that cant hold up.... thats just my oppinion i dont know about anyone else

Tom- Thanks for the insight. My F7 is sitting in my garage, so I understand the weight gains and why. I also am not complaining about the weight of the F7. I would rather have a stronger all around sled then a few pounds lighter. What I am saying is that on Cat's site, the F7 dry is estimated at 435 lbs even though the actual weight is 460. So, if the ZR900 is estimated at 507, what does it really weigh?

Becuase Cat marketed the weight savings so much, everyone was dying to know what the final weight would be and get the production F7 on a scale. When the ZR900 came out, I don't think they hyped the weight, so what I am saying is did anyone weigh a dry 900 to compare it to Cat's estimated weight?

WOW Someone should tell BGTRK that he is in the ARCTIC CAT FORUM, and also to quit smokin' the wacky weed!! :D