Is the current campaign of zero alcohol enough to curb riders that drink and ride or will it take lawmakers stepping in with legislation to force the issue or do you feel it should be left up to the individual as to whether or not they have one or two before heading out?
My opinion is carved in stone. Alcohol, even in small amounts,is not acceptable when operating a snowmobile, period.
Whats your view?
Rick.

zr sled head,
you said right, no booze for the cruise. :hallo4:

Save the beer for the war stories after the ride. If a person needs mix booze with riding to have fun, then maybe that person needs to find another source of entertainment.

Sadly, as with everything it seems, Johnny law is going to inevitably be stepping in in an effort to "fix" the problem

i will not ride with anyone who wants to booze it up trailside,or drive drunk,ive gotten in a few good arguments over drinking and driving,ZERO tolerance is the only answer to the question,if you cant put the bottle away for a few hours of your day to do some riding then you have a big problem

I say save it or later also. I don't even have "one" with lunch. :p

i am too young to drink, but i don't say i don't do it. I shouldn't even be riding the trails round here my self, never mind drinking and riding. I know some guys like my dads age, that i go sleddign with the odd time will bring a 600 ml bottle of vodka *(mixed) and have a sip now and then. Not enough to even make them notice it, but it is still to much for when you are ridign. But i guess i can't tell them what to do hey? :blahblah:

:( I talked to a guy at work that drinks and rides.... He said that he has no respect for anyone that doesn't drink and ride.....what an idiot....he tried to tell me that that was what riding was all about...hitting 7-10 bars in a night !!! With people like this on the trails it is no wonder people die!! All i said to him was that i hoped that he didn't hurt anyone when he has his accident...cause ya know it is gonna happen!!! Lets only hope that people like this only hurt themselves and no one else!!!

We were on a trip this year and stopped in a small northern town for lunch..the place was packed with sledders.. we went in an ordered 3 pepsi's and 2 coffee! The waitress laughed and asked what we really wanted from the Bar!!Everybody in that place except for the five of us were drinkin!!

Around here is seems like if you don't drink and ride you are the outcast! The bars are always packed!! I know some of the people in the bars are not drinkin( I am one of them) but the majority that i see are! I have seen guys that can't walk jump on a sled and blast down the lake at 100 mph at 3:00 am( there is a bar 3 miles from our Cabin)You always know when the bar closes! It is absolutely crazy!! What gets me is half the people that do it don't find a problem with it!!They think that the only people they are gonna hurt are themselves and if that!!

Too many foolish and unnessesary deaths due to downing a few drinks at every bar!! Save it till your home!! :angry: Thats my 2 cents

even with the terribly small amount of snow we had last winter i think a few of us can remember the finger pointing that sledders got just from a few drinkers in the headlines. :withstupid:

im not a big guy but i will argue with any knucklehead about drinking and driving,they are a burden to society,and the thing that really gets me going is when someone is drunk and kill someone they get 2-5 years in jail .....for taking a human life... :angry:

Originally posted by Bauer@Oct 18 2002, 04:41 AM
i am too young to drink, but i don't say i don't do it. I shouldn't even be riding the trails round here my self, never mind drinking and riding. I know some guys like my dads age, that i go sleddign with the odd time will bring a 600 ml bottle of vodka *(mixed) and have a sip now and then. Not enough to even make them notice it, but it is still to much for when you are ridign. But i guess i can't tell them what to do hey? :blahblah:
I would tend to think just the opposite. Refuse to ride with them when they bring the drink along. It's not easy being one upped by a "youngster" in the good judgement department.

I agree with Bauer. It takes some talent to run a machine that ways somewhere around 500pounds and has 100-150+hp. We don't allow people to drive a car drunk so why is it acceptable to drive a sled drunk. I refuse to ride with anyone thats drinking. There have been quite a few horror stories over the years to give good reason not to yet many of the guys still do. Running in to haybales, culverts, rivers, races down main street, and a game of chicken. I just hope never to meet someone on the trail thats been drinking.

By the way has anyone else heard about the deal for the ski loop.

Well I'll be honest and say that I have been know to have a brew with lunch, BUT have since been "enlightened" and agree that we just can't afford any mistakes and give the greenies or any other anti-sledders any more ammo. ??? I don't NEED to have one with luch so I wait until the sled is parked now and think that if anyone NEEDS to drink while they are out needs to get with AA. ;)

The next time you find someone drinking on the trail, ask them to pay your insurance, they are part of the reason it's going up.
Half the accidents that happen are alcohol related. :hallo1:

the majority of deaths are--- night driving+alcohol---,how come people that drink always have to try and prove how good they can drive after a bunch of beers?a few years back 20/20 did a program where riders did a course sober than had a bunch of drinks then did the course again,it really opened the drivers eyes after they watched the tapes and saw their reaction times and driving ability go way bad..

I admit, I did it in my younger days, but I have quit drinking altogether now. Too many alcoholics in the family. :doh:

Originally posted by PANTERAONE@Oct 18 2002, 01:21 AM
the majority of deaths are--- night driving+alcohol---,how come people that drink always have to try and prove how good they can drive after a bunch of beers?a few years back 20/20 did a program where riders did a course sober than had a bunch of drinks then did the course again,it really opened the drivers eyes after they watched the tapes and saw their reaction times and driving ability go way bad..
Along with the driving ability and reaction time going away......so does the fear factor, and thats what gets people hurt or killed. I will sometimes have a beer with my lunch but thats usually it and if someone in the party is drinking more, I will ususally take the lead so that they won't take unnecessary chances.

Made a promise to the wife(and myself) that I wouldn't drink when I'm out riding. Save it for when the sled is parked for the day. Besides when it's time to stop for lunch, I want water to re-hydrate. Have committed to that promise, and never intend to sway. I have a family waiting at home for me to return safely. Unfortunately, not everyone remembers thinks of the consequences of drinking and riding, I wish they would. :angry:

The inquest this year in Midland Ontario centered around a sledder who was last seen in a tavern, gets on his sled misses a corner on a approach to a bridge (supposedly not well signed) & kills himself. After the inquest, the widow says she had been approacehed by a couple of lawyers. Well of course :doh:

Two comments, this is an example of why the OFSC's insurance has gone up.

Secondly, if you are in an accident & there is alcohol in your bloodstream, you by law should forfeit any legal recourse. Of course the lawyers wouldn't want that. Why should you be able to sue because of your stupity?

I talked to a guy at work that drinks and rides.... He said that he has no respect for anyone that doesn't drink and ride.....what an idiot



Im not big either but I tell you what. i will throw down with some idiot that thinks he is kewl to Drink and drive. NO ALCOHOL AT ALL.
No need of it. People like that have no respect/morals. What happens if he killed one of his own family memebers, or someone else killed his family memeber ( and drunk) how would he feel?

I can;t stand ignorant people/. He needs a wake up call

Panteraone I agree wholeheartedly, and have gotten into agruments with my friends over a single beer at lunch. There is no need for liquid courage.
As others have said drinking is for telling stories at the end of the day. We also REFUSE to drive with people who have been drinking.

Ladyk and I were both unpset and angry over the incident in Midland last year. I dont know if they won yet , these things take up too 5 years, but I hope they lose the case and have to cover everyones cost. The one thing I learned after my accident is, ambulance chasers are worthless. A litigation team is required.

WOW! I am IMPRESSED with the number of members that belive as I do! Drinking and riding do NOT mix PERIOD, END OF STORY! I feel no sympathy or pity on ANYONE that hurts or kills themself while riding after having been drinking. They no better and have NO BUSINESS thinking they can sue someone else for their STUPIDITY! People need to stand up and take responsibility for their own actions! Thank you all for exercising common sense. :thumbsup:

Originally posted by zr500@Oct 17 2002, 11:59 PM
We don't allow people to drive a car drunk so why is it acceptable to drive a sled drunk.
It's not. Its against the law. In Canada, you will loose your licence, and possibly go to jail.

What is not against the law, is to have a beer for lunch, and drive a sled. As long as your under the legal limit of blood alcohol, its not illegal. The same goes for driving a car, operating a boat, and quite honestly riding a bicycle.

The problem really stems from that one beer turning into 2, then 5, then 10, and riding home.

The real problem, is enforcing the law. I'll freely admit, that I have a beer the odd time when we stop for lunch. Really, because I like beer. But I don't boose and ride. Just like I don't boose and drive. I do boose and ride my bicycle however. Illegal I know, but better than driving home, and nobody is likely to get hurt, but myself.


However, with the way things are going, I think it is high time to have a zero tollerance policy. But not just for sled, and not voluntary. Its should be law, across the board for all motorized vehicles.

Zero or go to jail. End of story.

Until that day comes, the problem won't go away. Its unfortunate, but the people who will support the voluntary program, are realistically not the problem right now anyway.

And don't think there won't be a severe economic impact on the area businesses. The bar near my cottage is packed with sleds from Friday night until Sunday Afternoon. And most people aren't drinking Pepsi.

If the police really wanted to stop drinking and riding, why aren't they sitting on the trail right beside the parking lot of the bars. The answer, is because they will put the bar out of business.

Its a big problem, with no easy answer. There are lots of politics involved. And its not going to be solved easily. I hate to be so negative, but I think its reality.

Zero alcohol or go to jail. Enforced very strongly is the only way to solve the problem. And were going to have to find a way to support the businesses that will fold as a result.

well, thats my rant. I'll get off my soap box now.

FishHog

Good topic.

The number one reason for accidents is speed. And yes, the speed goes up as the BAC goes up.

The guys I ride with usually make a 100-150 mile loop. No beers until we are more than half way. (On our way back)

We have ONE beer at three or four stops on our way back. I certainly don't think that's a problem. Especialy if we are having a burger! Our BAC is probubly .04 by the time we get back. Unfortunatly, we are the minority.

The problem is the guys that slam down four beers at every stop they make.

Then when we get back, let er snap if you want to. (Unless we're going out again the next day) A hung over driver is almost as bad!

Kirk

Captain Kirk,
It's too bad you feel that way cause beleive it or not your a prime time candidate for becoming a statistic. I do not wish you any harm but realize this its not the speeders having the big wrecks, its the drunk/drinking speeders that make up the lions share of all statistics. I realize you feel that your practices are the lesser of two evils (drinking a little or drinking alot), which is true, but its an unsafe practice just the same.
Just a little food for thought, certainly not an attack on you.
Rick.

The times are changing, I started riding in the early 70's and it seemed back then that drinking and sledding went hand and hand, lots of social drinking. The 80's were'nt much different, drinking on the trails and the bars would be packed at night, parking lot full of sleds, but you would never see a cop. The 90's saw alot more sled traffic and a lot more family's out there and a lot more cops. I don't have a problem with a beer at lunch but now I wait till I park the sled for the evening before the drinking starts.
It gets down to one thing and one thing only " responsibility!!!"

Originally posted by FishHog+Oct 17 2002, 03:49 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FishHog @ Oct 17 2002, 03:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--zr500@Oct 17 2002, 11:59 PM
We don&#39;t allow people to drive a car drunk so why is it acceptable to drive a sled drunk.
It&#39;s not. Its against the law. In Canada, you will loose your licence, and possibly go to jail.

What is not against the law, is to have a beer for lunch, and drive a sled. As long as your under the legal limit of blood alcohol, its not illegal. The same goes for driving a car, operating a boat, and quite honestly riding a bicycle.

The problem really stems from that one beer turning into 2, then 5, then 10, and riding home.

The real problem, is enforcing the law. I&#39;ll freely admit, that I have a beer the odd time when we stop for lunch. Really, because I like beer. But I don&#39;t boose and ride. Just like I don&#39;t boose and drive. I do boose and ride my bicycle however. Illegal I know, but better than driving home, and nobody is likely to get hurt, but myself.


However, with the way things are going, I think it is high time to have a zero tollerance policy. But not just for sled, and not voluntary. Its should be law, across the board for all motorized vehicles.

Zero or go to jail. End of story.

Until that day comes, the problem won&#39;t go away. Its unfortunate, but the people who will support the voluntary program, are realistically not the problem right now anyway.

And don&#39;t think there won&#39;t be a severe economic impact on the area businesses. The bar near my cottage is packed with sleds from Friday night until Sunday Afternoon. And most people aren&#39;t drinking Pepsi.

If the police really wanted to stop drinking and riding, why aren&#39;t they sitting on the trail right beside the parking lot of the bars. The answer, is because they will put the bar out of business.

Its a big problem, with no easy answer. There are lots of politics involved. And its not going to be solved easily. I hate to be so negative, but I think its reality.

Zero alcohol or go to jail. Enforced very strongly is the only way to solve the problem. And were going to have to find a way to support the businesses that will fold as a result.

well, thats my rant. I&#39;ll get off my soap box now.

FishHog[/b][/quote]
Very well put, but.... You yourself said you enjoy a beer now and then. Are you saying that you are willing to not have a beer until you are home for the night PERIOD. I too am one of those people that may have one beer at lunch or so. This is not an all out drink fest. I definetly don&#39;t agree with that. But I also wouldn&#39;t want to see a zero tolerance either. It is definetly a tough subject. So all I can say is keep the booze to a min. and keep it rubber side down.

I don&#39;t agree any beer, even one is bad. What is the point. Wait until you are done riding for the day then go tie one on if you want to. I can honestly say that in all my 26 years I have never drank and drove. EVER! I had 1 close friend die by a drunk and another nearly paralized. So you people who think you&#39;re cool or just want to fit in. Give it a rest already. It takes a bigger man to say no! So don&#39;t do it, wait until the ride is over, spare someone their life. I don&#39;t care about yours if you&#39;re drinking I&#39;m more worried for the other guy.
Short True story. Just last year my brother was driving down a country road in the stix and came across what he thought was a dead animal in the middle of the road. Come to find out that it was a human body. The guy was choking on his own blood and you guessed it, smelled of alcohol. His sled was still running lodged in a culvert with gas spilling out, my brother ran up to it and shut it down. He called the ER and got the man some help, but he was banged up bad. He doesn&#39;t think he made it. The only good thing is he hit a culvert and not another rider. He was just a half mile from the bar that he had come from. Hope that makes some of you think twice. If I ever see someone in my group drinking, you better believe I will have something to say about it and definately will cease riding with them immediately. I don&#39;t want any part of it. sorry for going off on this topic, actually no I&#39;m not, if you drink and drive, even "one" you are an idiot, wait until you get home.

mr670, just look at the one picture I posted. back in the early days around Apsley before the groomed trails if you went 30 miles that was a long day. It wasn&#39;t because we were drinking it was that the groomed trails were nonexistent. Plus with leaf spring sleds & running bush trails you couldn&#39;t go very fast.

After posting it I thought I&#39;d get a lot of flak & was tempted to pull it. Just needed 1 non-snowmobiler to see it & freak out. Even though the pic was taken 20 years ago, they wouldn&#39;t know if it was taken 2 years ago. If anyone has any thoughts whether PH should pull, fire away.

Nowadays, if I don&#39;t go a hundred miles in a trip, it&#39;s almost not worth going out.

I had numerous invites from a guy to go down to western NY to go riding, but from hearing the stories from this guy & his buddies, all they seemed to do is race from one bar to the next. Not my idea of a fun ride.

Originally posted by rfmckee@Oct 18 2002, 10:34 AM
Very well put, but.... You yourself said you enjoy a beer now and then. Are you saying that you are willing to not have a beer until you are home for the night PERIOD.
Yes, thats what I&#39;m saying.

I don&#39;t ever need a beer. I just enjoy a beer. And not to start a pi$$ing contest, but one beer does not affect me in any way. I just enjoy it. If they could make a good tasting non-alcoholic beer, I&#39;d have one of them.

Everyone is different, one beer might get some people drunk. But I&#39;m 6&#39; and weigh 210lbs, and have a fair tolerance to alcohol.

The problem is, you can&#39;t realistically enforce a certain level. Its like speeding. 5mph over the limit isn&#39;t really going to hurt anything, but then it grows to 10. If they really want to fix a problem, the only way is zero tolerance, and strict enforcement.

I really don&#39;t want to see that happen, but its the only solution. IMHO

FishHog

Lots of input here. Just another that really influenced (cured?) me.
Ever been in the waiting room when a mother has been told that her 20 year old son has just died and he&#39;s sorry there was nothing he could do to save him? It is not something I hope to experience again. We waited in the hospital for three hours hoping he&#39;d make it. You could here the Dr&#39;s working on him, gasping and gurgling....that&#39;s enough, you get the picture.
He was way to wasted to be riding a sled and hit a car. A young sober girl was driving the car, and she took this real hard also. Over 20 years ago and it seems like yesterday.

Needless to say I never had to worry again if I&#39;d pass a breathalizer test the next time I got stopped. None is better, "a couple" is OK, but way too many think they are OK and are NOT. They don&#39;t just need to be told, they need to be forced not to continue riding.

I agree with what all of you guys are saying. On ocassion, I will have ONE beer with lunch, but only when I am actually eating a full lunch, and I always make sure that I don&#39;t go back on the sled until at least an hour after the beer. (I weigh 225 on my way to 200). But after reading these posts, may just skip it all together from now on.

I know this topic is about drinking and sledding but I just want to add more to the mix. I think another thing that contributes to accidents and deaths is inexperience. You have guys that have never ridden before, and never ridden the old sleds before, going out and buying brand new 140-150 hp sleds, in all their new gear flying down the trails, they have never ridden before, like they are the only ones out there. They don&#39;t keep right, they don&#39;t slow down or stop at intersections and they don&#39;t use hand signals. Last year I must have helped about a dozen people out of the ditches and woods, who went off the trail and they all appeared to be completely sober.

Why is it that we need a license to have a motorcycle (at least in CT) but anyone with a driver&#39;s license can ride a sled? I think everyone should have to take some kind of saftey course, or proficency test before they can ride a sled. And just like with the driver&#39;s tests, alcohol awarness should be taught.

By the way, if the zero tolerance law goes up for a vote, count me in. The only problem, just like with anything else, will be the enforcement.

Ride sober, ride safe, live long.... :thumbsup:

ZR Sled Head ~

I respect your opionion and everyone&#39;s else&#39;s here. I didn&#39;t take your comments as an attack. If anyone want&#39;s to attack me on any of these theads, have at it! We are all just communicating our own opioions. If I don&#39;t agree with someone on an issue, I&#39;ll either ignor it, or respond to it.

So, I do not agree AT ALL with your statement, "beleive it or not your a prime time candidate for becoming a statistic." The guys that lose their ability to safley operate a sled are the prime candidates.

Having four beers in a five hour time period, in my opioion, does not effect MY ability to drive a sled. (But certainly might affect my wife&#39;s ability!)

I enjoy snowmobiling for the outdoors, the senery, etc.....not to see how fast I can go, or if you can keep up with me, or see how much I can rip up a corner. Those are the guys I worry about being a statistic.

And BTW, I&#39;m usually the guy at the end of the pack! The safest place to be!

Kirk

I guess we&#39;ll have to agree to disagree, nothing wrong with that.
If you ever have some time to kill (no punn intended), you might want to do a web search on snowmobile statistics or snowmobile accidents etc. Theres a wealth of reading on this very subject with some of the best articles coming from the world wide organization that tracks and records accident and fatality information from all types of motorized vehicles.
Have a look, you may be surprised.
Rick.

I will take a look. Thanks for the suggestion.

You don`t need booze when its hammer time on 711 for rush.There has been great decrease over the past 5-10 years in our area of the booze cruise and it has brought about by the sledders themselves seeing that it is no longer accepted .There lots of time at end of day to shoot the #### and pound them back.Atv`s here are yet to learn that, I guess its going to more medavacs (air lifts ) and body bags for that to happen................When in Cape Breton we call it stock if hood can close........

Originally posted by caper711cc@Oct 17 2002, 06:58 PM
P.S. *ZR you must be a little bit slowwww to realize that the 60`s are gone ,and not coming back.Down here A.T.V`s are the #1 killer by far(over 15 to 1) and counting till they understand to stop living *in the past.Zr get head out the sand for winters coming and get with the program............just my two scents..........Cape Breton stock...... :sleeping:

We&#39;re all friends here.
i am glad we all can be civil about this!! :D



Last edited by Snow Monkey at Oct 18 2002, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by Captain Kirk@Oct 18 2002, 11:56 AM
ZR Sled Head ~

I respect your opionion and everyone&#39;s else&#39;s here. I didn&#39;t take your comments as an attack. If anyone want&#39;s to attack me on any of these theads, have at it! We are all just communicating our own opioions. If I don&#39;t agree with someone on an issue, I&#39;ll either ignor it, or respond to it.

So, I do not agree AT ALL with your statement, "beleive it or not your a prime time candidate for becoming a statistic." The guys that lose their ability to safley operate a sled are the prime candidates.

Having four beers in a five hour time period, in my opioion, does not effect MY ability to drive a sled. (But certainly might affect my wife&#39;s ability!)

I enjoy snowmobiling for the outdoors, the senery, etc.....not to see how fast I can go, or if you can keep up with me, or see how much I can rip up a corner. Those are the guys I worry about being a statistic.

And BTW, I&#39;m usually the guy at the end of the pack! The safest place to be!

Kirk
Kirk

I agree wholehartedly with you. There are some people that come on here and say that drinking is wrong. Then they are the ones that go out and have 1 or 2 or 3 drinks too.

I am not an alcoholic, and I do not drive from bar to bar to pound down 4 beers each time. These people are a menace. I am a guy that will start out sledding, and if you come to a clubhouse you can stop for a few. But I always limit myself to what I can handle. I am a large guy, and one beer does not make me giggly. I feel (others may disagree) that I am perfectly fine when having 2 beers every few hours. up to a max of 4ish. You can bet if I am out for 12 hours I sure as hell am not having 24 beers!

Kirk, You and I are not the problem. I also stay at the back of the pack. There are people that like to lead, and they like to show off. These people are the problem, I feel like they are more harmful to others than people that are conservative drivers and have had a few drinks.
Now if you take these reckless drivers, and give them 2 beers, no doubt they will be worse off than before.

Drinking and driving is wrong, but there are 2 different people that drink and drive. The people who like to speed, and the people who realise the situation you are in and slow down. I am the latter.

I do not condone driving while drunk, but I also think that driving conservatively while you have a BAC of less than 0.08 (in ontario) is OK.

I do not drink everytime I go out, and I respect people who would not want me to drink while sledding. I don&#39;t want anyone on here to be afraid to go sledding with me though. I am responsible and drive appropriately for the situation and conditions.

See ya.

Crazyliver, nice avator! What&#39;s a crazyliver?

Anyway, nicely said. And whoever said expierence plays a major role, is right on! I&#39;ve been riding for 27 yrs.

Off the subject a tad, but what scares me the most is leading during the day, lots of crazies comin&#39; at ya. And who knows what&#39;s in there blood stream! That&#39;s probubly the number one reason I take up the rear. (But it sure is nice not having the snow from the sleds in front of you spraying all over)

Seeing the lights comin&#39; at you at night is a major plus.

Well, since I am underage, I can&#39;t drink. I don&#39;t plan on drinking with sledding, period. Now, I ride with my uncle who keeps a flask of Yukon Jack with him, he&#39;ll get it out once we are back on our own property (we have about a 5-mile trail ride on our own property to the cabin) but never at night or when on the public trail.

Originally posted by Captain Kirk@Oct 18 2002, 02:49 PM
Good topic.

The number one reason for accidents is speed. And yes, the speed goes up as the BAC goes up.

The guys I ride with usually make a 100-150 mile loop. No beers until we are more than half way. (On our way back)

We have ONE beer at three or four stops on our way back. I certainly don&#39;t think that&#39;s a problem. Especialy if we are having a burger! Our BAC is probubly .04 by the time we get back. Unfortunatly, we are the minority.

The problem is the guys that slam down four beers at every stop they make.

Then when we get back, let er snap if you want to. (Unless we&#39;re going out again the next day) A hung over driver is almost as bad!

Kirk
Are you sure that .04 is acceptable? I still hold my commercial drivers license. Under CDL rules, .04 is considered a DUI in the US. My point? .04 BAC is still known to affect judgement.

What a thread we have going here. I&#39;m not surprised at how many poeple are against drinking and riding, but am surprised at how many are for zero tolerance. I would really like to be a fly on the wall w/everyone who says they NEVER even have one drink while riding, and REFUSE to ride with anyone who has one drink while riding. It&#39;s a great concept, but I think if we were honest w/ourselves, those statements aren&#39;t 100% true. I&#39;m not calling anyone a liar, just think someone might be forgetting the time when they did have one w/lunch, or their buddy had one w/lunch.

Personally, I don&#39;t like the taste of any beer, and usually have a hard time to think of a mixed drink that might taste good. Having said that, there are those times, very few, when I will have a beer and it goes down rather easily. I can say that I drink a lot more Pepsi than beer, and probably less than 2 cases of beer in a years time. Fortunately, I ride w/a group which consists of no heavy drinkers, and a few that don&#39;t drink at all. But I will never refuse to ride w/one of my friends because he has a beer. If one of them ever has too many, the rest of us will refuse to let him ride home.

If it goes to zero tolerance, I wouldn&#39;t mind. But til it does, we all have a responsibility to our friends and family to not let someone ride if we know they have had too much to drink. Obviously the people that drink and ride all the time don&#39;t have the intelligence to do it themselves.

I&#39;ll include one short story too, just in case it might make someone think twice. Last year my buddy and I were w/in 1 mile of our room at the Buckhorn, about midnight, near Munising in the UP. I was leading and saw "something" on the opposite side of the county road we were on. Sure enough, it was a 16 yr old boy squatting in the road, near his father who was laid flat out on the road after being thrown off his sled from hitting a tree. The kind of thing you hope you never encounter. I stayed w/the boy and his father, my buddy went to the lodge to call for help. The father was unconcious, but breathing, and reaked of alcohol. I did what I could to keep him warm, then focused on talking to the son to settle him down...of course he was thinking of the worst. Turns out they just came from the Buckhorn, where his wife tended bar, and their home was about another mile down the road. He started coming to and wanted to leave...that&#39;s right, he wanted to get back on his sled and ride home, because he didn&#39;t want to lose his license. The ambulance came and took him away finally, and the police had plenty of questions. About a week after the trip, I called his wife, and she said he did have some fluid on the brain, but he should recover. Now how many people were guilty in this scenario??

Sorry to go on and on!!

When I had my 440 I thought I was invincable and couldn&#39;t get hurt because it wasn&#39;t fast enough (it was fast enough to get killed). So I would drink all the time with the group I was with knowing full well that it wasn&#39;t the right thing to do. Never mind the fact that I still had to drive home. Nobody ever got hurt or even in an accident luckily, then I bought my 800 and my wife said if she found out I was drinking on the trails at any point she would sell my sled, period! Needless to say I save the drinking for the end of the day. I have to admit I like beer and one at lunch would be great but I want to keep my sled and I want my kids to join in the riding so Coke it is.

I too have a ZERO tolerance for alcohol when riding. Those in our pack who might want 1 beer at lunch have pretty much stopped doing so because they dont want to listen to me nag them. I dont care why so long as they dont do it. I have had a few friends who were killed by drunk drivers so I will NOT tolerate drinking and riding. Drink when you finished riding, in the hot tub is where I go after a ride with a nice brown cow.Our rides are a minumum of 200km, you cant have a beer at every stop and then expect to be able to operate a high powered rocket. Dont think that I am a naggy wife cause thats not me, I just want my friends to be around to ride with me another day. If one of my buds was drunk and crashed and died while I was riding with them I prolly would never ride again.It would put a bad taste in my mouth for the whole sport. I have childrenh and my buds doo too, I want to go home and see them when the riding is done.

For those of you who really like your beer have you not thought of a non-alcoholic beer with lunch if you were having a beer cause you like beer? Just a suggestion.

Just my 2 cents

Like a couple of the guys said a beer or two within a 8 or 10 hr ride is neither here nor there, if you stop for lunch or supper or at a cabin for an hour or whatever i will have a beer why not??? sure some people will go overboard and get pissed drunk and those are the ones who make it bad for everyone else, but me and my group know how to have a sociable drink while sledding, or while doing whatever. Sure there is no beer drank the first few hours of the trip but coming back that evening on the last leg of the journey alot of the time we will stop at the local watering hole for a brew or 2, its just sociable. I have alot of friends here who are cops and whatever else who sled and they will doo the same while riding, but i know every once and a while someone will get seriously hurt or killed on a sled while drunk and its awful to hear that but........the guy like me having the sociable beer isint the one you will hear about wrapped around a birch tree because i wont go that far, it depends on the person, some dont know when to stop and will get smashed, and some like myself know not to doo this as it is stupid. In my line of work i have seen drunkin accidents, and i know only too well what can happen if somone is drunk and drives but just to have a casual drink with some friends......................Come on lighten up.



Last edited by jwheeler at Oct 18 2002, 04:41 PM

Funny no one has mention the Jonny wanabe racer on his first ever sled [a 7-800cc machine] that he is not a problem, blame it all on alcohol.
I grew up in a time when snowmobiling and drinking were hand and hand. I still do it but not to the point like we used to. A couple beers at lunch, a couple out on the trail and couple at dinner. This thread has come up before and the last couple of years I have been taking note on who&#39;s drinking what at the bar, I"am here to tell ya, you folks must be the exception, as 95% of the people are drinking. I guess this means I wont be able to ride with any of you people. :(

yep same here mikadoo were bad. :( :p



Last edited by jwheeler at Oct 18 2002, 04:49 PM

Mikadoo, the difference between the inexperienced rider and the drunk is that the drunk typically has to be TRYING to get plastered. I don&#39;t want to discount the newbie thinking they can hop on and pin the throttle, both are bad judgements. The boose is worse as the person sets out to ruin their ability to be safe.

Well I gotta say this will be the first year that me and my friends will be riding where we are 21. Me and my friends made a promise that we will not be drinking while riding.. My main reasson is I am a slower rider compared to most people out there.. I now that if i have drink, it may slow my response to get out of peoples way.. I can&#39;t COUNT!&#33;!! the number of times I have had to dodge my to the side of the trail Cause some IDIOT!!! was driving around the coners to fast. I know that if for some reasson I did have a drink at the bar.. My max speed would only be about 30 mph in a strait away.. But I told me self I wouldn&#39;t.. Like you guys says.. I can wait till the sled is put away for the night. The way many people drive on tight trails really scares me.. And when they say, "I have it all under control". I think, wow.. These guys are full of it. I have almost come home and sold my sleds cause I don&#39;t wanna fell like my life is endangerd when riding the trials.. The thought of people riding In-toxicated drives my nuts. What are these people thinking!!! The last thing I want is to do is see one of my buddies taken off the trail in a Body Bag because some idiot was drunk or going to fast. or even me. Worse yet if they are In-toxicated. Any time I go to the Bar with friends, Some one is always a DD. NO matter what. I don&#39;t see why Sleding should be any differnt. Except every body should be there own DD. If people wanna keep sleding, they have to get smarter and be more responsible. Flat out. I fell very strong about this subject. Funny most of the people in this forum seem to be the good 85-90 percent who are curtious riders, and responsible... It&#39;s the other 10 percent who have to ruin it for every one else. :angry:



Last edited by Snow Monkey at Oct 18 2002, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by jwheeler@Oct 18 2002, 04:39 PM
Like a couple of the guys said a beer or two within a 8 or 10 hr ride is neither here nor there, if you stop for lunch or supper or at a cabin for an hour or whatever i will have a beer why not??? sure some people will go overboard and get pissed drunk and those are the ones who make it bad for everyone else, but me and my group know how to have a sociable drink while sledding, or while doing whatever. Sure there is no beer drank the first few hours of the trip but coming back that evening on the last leg of the journey alot of the time we will stop at the local watering hole for a brew or 2, its just sociable. I have alot of friends here who are cops and whatever else who sled and they will doo the same while riding, but i know every once and a while someone will get seriously hurt or killed on a sled while drunk and its awful to hear that but........the guy like me having the sociable beer isint the one you will hear about wrapped around a birch tree because i wont go that far, it depends on the person, some dont know when to stop and will get smashed, and some like myself know not to doo this as it is stupid. In my line of work i have seen drunkin accidents, and i know only too well what can happen if somone is drunk and drives but just to have a casual drink with some friends......................Come on lighten up.
JW it is not the 1 beer that causes a problem. The problem is for most people is one leads to two to three so on,It is too easy to drink lots while sitting in the bar telling war stories.

i know what u are and the others are saying lady but those are the ones who shouldent have a beer until the tether cord is pulled, i am the same as all the rest really, when the sleds are shut down for the night throw a log and the fire and start tippen em back while shootin the ..... about the days ride. ;)



Last edited by jwheeler at Oct 18 2002, 05:07 PM

I totally agree with LadyK... There is too much time spent waiting for food and chatting that it doesn&#39;t register how many you have had!!Next thing you are walkin out with a buzz and hoppin on a machine and heading down the trail while impaired! I don&#39;t see the sense....If you can&#39;t ride with out drinkin then it is time to get some help!!Do some people feel it is their right to have one or two or three with their lunch or throught out the day? I feel i have a right to ride on a trail or drive on the street and not have to worry about who is drunk and is gonna smack me!

I am not gonna say I never drove drunk!! I have! I have been caught and was fortunate enough not to lose my license! I learnt my lesson!
I rode while intoxicated once and only once! Young and stupid and fearless!The large tree at the end of the trail almost bit me twice! Never again! 1 or 20 beer....i&#39;ll save them for when i am home!

Its too bad we no longer have access to the part of the OPP web site that recorded information on snowmobile fatalities in Ontario over several years. It listed several pieces of information which included whether or not alcohol was involved. Anyone that followed these listings over the years, such as I did, is very much aware that the majority of these fatalities involved alcohol. Certainly the larger number of these folks where falling down drunk but remember, although its a smaller number, the rest of those deceased folks where the social drinkers that figured they had it under control.
The out of control/inexperienced crowd made up the rest of the list but it was a very small small portion.
The other most common factors are,
-speed (almost always combined with alcohol)
-night time hours riding (almost always combined with alcohol)
-lost control (almost always combined with alcohol)
-drowning (almost always combined with alcohol)
-hit an obstruction-car/fence/ice heave/pole/etc (almost always combined with alcohol)
-off trail riding,the most common place for serious accidents/fatalities
If I had ever dreamed they would take the information off their site, I would have made a copy for conversations just like this.

I also agree LadyK, I"am guilty of this 1 or 2 leads to many. Not anymore but in the day we used to slam down a dozen in one sitting if it was one of those days when everything clicked just right with everyone. This made for a stupid ride home sometimes 100 miles but luckly no one got hurt seriously and the next day was PAY DAY :0:

The Wisconsin DNR still lists their stats, and summary of the accidents... alcohol is definately a major contributor....Wisconsin snowmo death stats (http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/es/enforcement/safety/snowstats.htm)

Have to warn ya, some of the descriptions are terrible to think about...but I think that is their point.

:( Man, there are some bad ones!! 6 out of 15 were alcohol related in 2001.. if you look at the year 2000 it gives the ages of the victims... kinda opens your eyes a bit....such a wide range of people!! It looks like alot of the accidents are speed related though!! Crazy stuff! :(

I am guilty of the ocasional lunch beer, or one at the tavern at the next town on an eavning loop. And because of this I have to agree that on the odd day just one, (either your more tired,or stessed out or whatever) sometimes gives me that lite glow, if only for a few minutes. This feeling disturbes me and for that reason It only happens on the occasional put put ride. On the other hand, because of this if I&#39;m out on a ride with my buddies, I know there&#39;s going to be some agressive ridding either on or off the trail. I will not have a drink before,during ,or at the last leg of the ride because I know this feeling can happen some times and I&#39;m not willing to risk injury to others, myself or my sled if nothing else just for the great taste of our canadian beers.

Lady k and permafrost "IF" I can make it out for a ride with the two of you this winter, I promise I won&#39;t have any OK!

Sounds good Regor we&#39;ll get wasted after the ride. Usually i dont last too long after 400km days and lots of powder bustin. Leaves ya kinda wiped.

:withstupid: i agree with all of you that drinking and riding dont mix its like water and oil its just not happining and it endangers all of the rest of us and hurts the name of the sport i know my club recently turned down state funding because they wanted to improve the trail from the city to the nude bar and we said no and put up steel gates we dont want drunks riding on our trails we have gone 13 years with out one injury and it was broken 13 years ago when somone broke their ankle landing a jump ( not drunk)

but then i have a friend who always has a little bottle of peperment shnops (sp) that he oly uses when he gets extremely cold to warm up fast and then he has someone hold his keys till a while has passed and he is sure he can ride safe.. this guy is one of the safest and smartest guys that i know too but the bottom line is that drinking is unacceptable and i will not tolorate it when im around

Team Arctic tell your friend that it is a false sense of warmth and in reality he is getting colder. Alcohol actually thins the blood and lowers body temperature.

not to get off the topic but where is this nude bar???? ;)

WOW...I am very impressed with the quality of the responses in here!!! As some of you know I am in Law Enforcement so I&#39;m very aware of how alcohol affects a persons ability to ride sensibly. It takes an average person about an hour to burn off each ounce of alcohol he /she consumes. So if you have three beers in an hour while your sitting at the bar telling war stories it will take you three hours to completly metabolize those three beers out of your system. Food and physical size does have a baring on how that alcohol effects you. I am not against having a beer or two with your lunch but please limit it to just that. Speed and Alcohol are the two biggest contributers to snowmobile accidents.

FYI/ I&#39;m very proud to be a member of a site with such responsible and sensible people!!

most of us sledders are decent folk :p

Originally posted by PANTERAONE@Oct 18 2002, 11:56 PM
most of us sledders are decent folk :p
And good looking to boot.

Except for SnowMonkey. just kidding buddy.


SWRules SWRules SWRules

Originally posted by regor@Oct 18 2002, 11:15 PM
not to get off the topic but where is this nude bar???? ;)
Regor, that must be 1 I don&#39;t know about :D :D

Problem is, most of the idiots spending all day in the bar bragging about how fast they ride aren&#39;t the ones participating on snowmobile message boards. That&#39;s why it seems from these responses that noone does it. I try to stay off the trails on Saturdays, which I refer to drunkday. I&#39;ve been eating breakfast and seen people doing shots -probably 10 in the morning. Great thing to see when you&#39;re about take your children for a ride. I pole vaulted an Exciter at about 70mph once- I was sober, but am convinced to this day that if I had any booze in me, I never would have been able to dive off at the last second the way I did, which could have killed me.

Want to hear something scary? Go to a popular trailside bar on a late Saturday afternoon and ask all the people drinking how they rate their skills as a rider. I guarantee that 10 out of 10 will claim to be a "better than average" rider. If that&#39;s true, what&#39;s an average rider??

They are putting peoples lives at risk drinking on the trails. It makes me sick thinking about it. I will always report to the authorities with my cell phone when I see them. There is always a hill top or mountain top to climb and get a signal. Works great for emergency calls.

Last time I saw people drinking and laughing on the side of a trail I slowly pulled along side them and punched it! Roostered snow all over them. Kept it full throttle for atleast 30 feet throwing icy chunky snow. Not powder.

:devil:

Originally posted by edrocks3@Oct 20 2002, 01:01 AM
They are putting peoples lives at risk drinking on the trails. It makes me sick thinking about it. I will always report to the authorities with my cell phone when I see them. There is always a hill top or mountain top to climb and get a signal. Works great for emergency calls.

Last time I saw people drinking and laughing on the side of a trail I slowly pulled along side them and punched it! Roostered snow all over them. Kept it full throttle for atleast 30 feet throwing icy chunky snow. Not powder.

:devil:
carefull machines tend to break down at the wrong time :p

I admit that I had to plagiarize this article from another location, but it fits the content of the thread. Maybe this will give cause to re-think or have second thoughts about mixing sledding and drinking. I am not pointing fingers, god knows I have my own record (not in the last 16 years) of mixing drinking and driving, and I would not wish this on my worst enemy.


Father Charged In Daughter&#39;s Snowmobile Death

Officer Hears Dad Cry &#39;Not My Baby&#39; At Crash Site

Posted: 1:57 p.m. MST April 5, 2002


JACKSON, Wyo. -- A Wyoming man whose 10-year-old daughter was killed in a snowmobile accident has been charged with aggravated vehicular homicide.



Prosecutors allege Martin Duane Debuhr, 39, registered a blood-alcohol level of 0.11 percent two-and-a-half hours after the crash that took Becky Debuhr&#39;s life March 27 south of Jackson.

The legal limit in Wyoming for operating motor vehicles, including snowmobiles, is 0.10 percent. Beginning July 1, the limit will be 0.08 percent.

If convicted, the man faces up to 20 years in prison and a fine of up to $10,000. He is scheduled to appear in court April 16 at 10:30 a.m.

Becky, a fifth-grader at Colter Elementary School, was a passenger on a machine designed for one occupant, authorities said.

Court documents allege Debuhr was "under the influence of alcohol to a degree which rendered him incapable of safely driving and due to his impaired condition did fail to negotiate a steep barrow ditch, losing control of said snowmobile and crashing it, resulting in the death of Becky Debuhr."

A report filed by Deputy Ben Adams said Martin Debuhr used poor judgment in trying to climb the side of a gully that was nearly vertical.

The 500-pound snowmobile slid about 11 feet into the gully and came to rest between two trees with the father and daughter pinned beneath it in deep snow for more than 15 minutes.

A passer-by found the pair, but it was too late to rescue the girl, who died of asphyxiation, authorities said.

When a state trooper arrived, he reportedly heard Debuhr crying, "Not my baby, not my baby." Deputies described him as hysterical.

Teton County prosecutor Steve Weichman said the case has been a difficult one for law enforcement.

"We take no pleasure in filing this," he said.

A deputy&#39;s report alleges Debuhr said he drank "a couple of beers" between 10 a.m. and 11:30 a.m. The crash occurred about 5:30 p.m.

He also allegedly told investigators, "I wrecked the damn sled and killed my own daughter."