: THE MACH Z
10-25-2001, 09:33 PM
What does everyone on this sight think bombardier should do to the mach. *
Sounds like it will be cancled out. *I dont understand why they dont redo it. *Make the chassie lighter and turn better. *Better suspention more power out of the 800. *Come on bombardier BRING IT!!! *
I went to the snowmobile show in toronto and at the bombardier booth I was looking at all the machines. *They had the MXZ in the spotlight, *The crappy 4 stroke ATV wannabe, 4 legends, ATVS, *Wheres the mach, *It was hidden at the back. *It wasn't raised on blocks to make it look cool (in your face) it was just sitting on the ground. *It wasnt even the tech plus version.
Yes i know its not the top seller but I think it is still skidoos Flagship sled and it is drifting and it should not be treated like that. *For years us skidooers in the faces of ARCTIC CAT, Polaris, and yamaha fans could say with the most confidence that we got the fastest stock sled on the market (DONT MESS) And they didn't because it was obvouse even to the biggest BSer. *When they looked in there mirror and saw a CK3 its like pull over let him pass. *But now its a dinosaure. *Hardly anyone has anything good to say about it except it should only be used to cross lakes. *No one mensions the superior tripple engine that starts better then arctics EFI and runs smoother then any twin on the market. *And now 3 out of 6 races with a polaris XCR you lose. *Its not even the superior power in the market anymore its EVEN. *
Sure we got the MXZ to show of in the jumps and corners but when you hit a lake or long stretch and a pol or Tcat or SRX blows by You what are they going to remember. *
I hope someone from bombardier listens to this or has the same idea as me to keep the mach the most dangerous sled on the market. *A protector for all SKIDOOERS braggin rights. *
A symbol of what a Snowmobile should do. *
Think about it. *Whats the number one question anyone asks you about a sled. *WHATS THE FASTEST. *And i used to say SKIDOO. *Now im not so sure and in a few year Maybe next year It might be gone. *
ThANKS FOR YOUR TIME..
10-25-2001, 10:13 PM
You might want to copy your post and send it on to Ski-doo, maybe that will get someone's attention. * I know a lot of tripple guys would love to see them come back strong. * Last year at the shootout the SRX700 hit them hard. * In the grass drags, at least the ones I went to the SRX 700 won the 800 stock class. *I would love to see a tripple in the ZX chassis, wouldn't you? *
10-25-2001, 10:47 PM
*I *think *they *should *the *motor *in *the *ZX *chassis *I *don`t *know *if *the *pipes *would *fit *under *the *hood *so *they *could *make *a *new *hood *for *it *to *work. *That *would *be *great *the *power *and *the *handling. *
10-26-2001, 05:29 AM
Ski-Doo should remember that the triple Doo , *is what took Bombardier SLeds, *to where it is today. * It was The Ski-Doo Triples, * that *converted a substantial amount of racers and riders to riding Doo's. * When you went to the races, *you could pretty well bet that Doo, *was the one to beat. * When you read the race results, *It was Doo everywhere on the winners list. *(I should know, *I converted from a Polaris to Ski-Doo, because of the Doo Triple) * *But that was back when they were really into building triples. * Now that, *for the majority, * the conversion has been made to twins, *It seems like the Triple racers and riders are being abandoned. * It's either twins, *or else. * * Not me, *I have 4 Triples and No twins. * And if they stop building the Mach Z, *I will be buying parts and building my own. * Doo should realize, that some of us, *do not care for the MXZ Chassis. (Sorry Guys, Personal Preference). * I would hope that we are all getting our feathers ruffled for nothing, * and that Doo will not let us Triple Riders Down, *the ones who helped take the Doo to the top...... * JMHO...
10-26-2001, 05:54 AM
;) Hey I'm with you Z man!! This is Andy, China Bob's brother in law. While I sold my 600 Doo triple in the spring, I am waiting patiently until I can Doo another rotax 3. *Ski-Doo has taken the triple thing to a certain level of performance and then sort of treated the 3's like they are not important. I can't understand the marketing theory. Well, maybe I can. *Twins are cheaper to build. Period. Streamlined production cuts costs. Tooling for triples is big bucks. I miss mine. I'll have another. It's reassuring to think that DDMusser and family will take good care of it. If not....I KNOW where he lives!!(JOKE).
10-26-2001, 06:18 AM
From the people I know at Bombardier in Quebec is the rumor of an 800 triple with a cylinder reed motor in the ZX platform. Guess we will have to wait and see. *-- *Bill
10-26-2001, 07:35 AM
Even if they put the tripple into a ZX it doesnt matter. *My point is the mach should be leading the way not shuffled of into a ZX because they already have it. *Design somthing new and built for the tripple. *
HOW COULD THEY GO FROM 1998 to 2002 and change nothing except suspention. *There is no fine tuning, *No chassie adjustment. *It makes you wonder if bombardier just has it so they can say they have a tripple.
THey are trying to make everyone like the mxz. *I DONT. *I love the mach it offers me stuff the twin cant. *
If there brothers are the new york city subway and the learjet why is it so difficult to run two diffrent types of engines. *
THis whole issue makes me wonder how bombardier will handle the 4 stroke. *Are they just going to abandon the 2 stroke
10-26-2001, 08:13 AM
If the ZX chassis is superior to the CK-3, why wouldn't you want to see a big triple in it? *The story I got from my dealer who was at Ski-doo over the summer said that he was able to lay his eyes on a Mach III. *It was the 800 triple with triple hooters in a variation of the ZX chassis, all black and mean looking. He was led to believe that it may be a late season introduction.:0
10-26-2001, 08:24 AM
I didnt mean dont put it in the ZX. *I was aiming at make a new home for it that is only MACH'S home. *
Questions is the ZX really that great for the mach. I dont want them to through it in and leave it for an other 4 years. *We have to let them no that the mach is not a sled that can be ignored. * *Make a ZX3 chassie made only for the tripples. *Make it turn and handle like the MXZ. *But put hydralic shocks on the front so when you hit the lakes ride hight could be lowered for more aerodynamics and control. *Same for the rear. *Make is really areo dynamic. *Put electronic exhaust valves on it. *A detonation senser, a fuel grade selector, Maybe put an option for fuel injection. *Make the 800tripple crank out 180hp and top out 15mph faster then the srx and beat it to the 1/4 5 sled lengths ahead. *It can be done because if bombardier wants it, they got it. *
Make it somthing people would want. *My dealer told me last year he sold more skandics then machs. *I helped out the machs by buying an other one last month a yellow one. *
I have a feeling they got somthing in the works but i just hope its not an other "OK HERE YOU GO, NOW LEAVE US ALONE." *I want it to be every year they squeeze just a little more power out of it. *I want to see it on the cover of magazine with titles like " WE WOULD TAKE A PICTURE BUT WE COULDNT CAPTURE IT" *I want it back.
10-26-2001, 08:26 AM
I wish some of you guys would learn that triple only has one P.
More to the point, I agree with everything being said. I don't understand Doo's reasoning behind letting the muscle of the fleet wither. We've all heard rumors of triple ZX sleds and
building another platform entirely. The triples that Doo had
and are capable of producing in the future could perhaps keep us in front where we always used to ride. I guess for now us
triple lovers will just have to make them last.
10-26-2001, 08:30 AM
My dealer said that it was a "variation" of the ZX platform, not the ZX platform.
10-26-2001, 08:34 AM
NOW WERE TALKING. *Did he have a clue when we could see it.:0
10-26-2001, 10:26 AM
I have two Mach Z's, I use one as a backup sled the other I'am building for trail use..."Port Logic" porting, "Fast" front suspension with 10" of travel, M-10 rear suspension set-up for a 47 yearold who can't take the hard bumps on the trail anymore after 175 miles of riding for a day...and when I take it out for it's first ride I'll let you know how it is....if you can't buy one from Ski_Doo....than build it yourself....Al...Think Snow!!!!!
Ill take a single piped 800 triple in the zx chassis! Great torque, fuel mileage, smoooooth, and light weight. Currently Im *looking for a smashed or totaled machz or formula 111 800 for a transplant in my zx 700 chassis. If they wont build it I will!!!
10-26-2001, 11:16 AM
this might cheer you up! I actualy am taking courses at college in mecanical engineering, and when i'm done, bombardier is where i'm going. You guys are right, the triples have gone down. Less power, torq, speed. we are loosing our pride. AS soon as I get a job at bombardier, I will try to make a difference, and keep making suggestion on how to improve the sleds, maybe I will be able to make your dreams come true. I was thinking on putting a new and improved super triple in a mx-zx x 440 lc chassis. You have a 430 pound chassis + a 180 hp mach triple engine = :0 take a look at this site: http://www.dneperf.com/ then click on shootout and article two.
10-26-2001, 11:47 AM
One thing you guys need to keep in mind is that the media is a powerful place. If the new york times said the world is going to end at noon tomorrow everyone would be in a panic.
In my opinion this what has happened to the triple market.
You know it"s like we gotta have SAE threads, metric threads, and in between SAE & metric! Many people got rich by changing a simple bolt thread and I believe the same goes for the twin market!
I have owned my share of twins but NONE compare to a triple, NONE! I will own a triple as long as I can get my hands on the parts if thats what it takes!
We are all blowing hot air at the manufactures because they have one thing in mind and that is to make money and lots of it, no matter if it"s making a one cyl. or a ten cyl. it"s all in what the media/manufacture wants you to believe...
10-26-2001, 12:19 PM
My only hope is that bombardier will see how the yamaha viper sells like crazy and builts a all around performance machine with the 800 tripple. *Because that is the problem. *
This is why i think there killing it of. *
First they got rid of the 800 triple in the touring se. *Now its only left in the mach. *That mean the whole engine building process, Labour, Machinery is only used to make a engine for a machine that is one of the slowest selling on the market. *All the twins will get cheaper because there used in almost every sled. *
The key is to make a really neat chassie that can run a triple. *But offer more then just the 800. *Offer a 600 tripple. *About 70% of riders dont even look at the mach because its to powerful for them. *The machz need to be like the thundercat only offer the 800. *But they should bring back the formula 111 with smaller tripples. *But the key is in the chasie. *It needs to turn sharper and harder, Weigh less or hide the pounds, *Able to control if your a light rider. And offer the best of the best features of any sled. *
You need to stand out that is why i dont think the ZX chasie would be a good home for the tripple. *When you see a ZX you think twin. When you see a CK3 you think triple. *The only problem is that the CK3 is about 4year older in technology. *
Jeepster I hope that when you make bombardier you keep this in mind and make the most radical, aggressive looking, fastest, *Lightweight tripple on the market. *That people look at and go thats the sled i want, *But they cant get it because its selling so good and its on backorder for 2 months. *THATS WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT..
The first experience i had with a triple was in a used sled dealer. *He was showing me some of the used sleds and was starting them up for me. *The twins needed about 3 pulls and a lot of car on the throttle. *THen he came to a formula111 700. He fliped the choke and with out a hand on the throttle he pulled it and about half way it started and idled with no stutter. *
How could any company abandon this.
10-26-2001, 12:54 PM
The bottom line is that they will sell what makes them money. *I talked personally to a Ski-doo rep about this exact subject. She admitted that the profit margin on the twins is much higher and the engines are considerably less expensive to build. *Think about it, one less of everything. *MachZ's still sell relatively well according to her, especially in the North east. She also did say that there was no plans to discontinue the MightyMach. *At that point, I asked her about the sled my dealer talked about and all she would do is smile and asked me what I thought of a nmes like "Mach3"
10-26-2001, 12:55 PM
oops, name is what I meant to type.
10-26-2001, 01:38 PM
I think the problem is that for the past 4 years the mach was number 1 and no one tryed to touch it. *Sure there was the thundercat but it wasnt a threat. *Now all of sudden polaris rips out the XCR and all cat has to do is add exhaust valves and a little bit of twiking and the mach is no longer the king. *Not to mension the SRX who can now beat the mach in the 1/4 but not in a lake race or top speed. *
And sure its cheaper to build twins and it always has been. *But you cant go 120mph buy being cheap. *Thats why we have been laying down the money (enough money to buy a small car). *ANd when i press the throttle and feel my fingers start to bleed i think damm this was a good buy. *I hope the rep you were talking to knows what shes talking about because we need a refreshing wake up. *I would keep the name mach z because with the right mods you really dont know how manytimes faster then sound you will go. *
I JUST HOPE that this new mach 3 isnt a 950 twin. *If it were yamaha would look pretty good. *
10-26-2001, 04:25 PM
I'm with you guys.
After owning three Z's, a 98, 99, and a 01 I feel guilty this year because I have gone to an 800 twin. I'm sure I'll enjoy this sled but I'm not looking forward to running the big lakes the way I used to.
Bring on a new-bodied light triple (with triple pipes and big HP), I'll take one.
10-26-2001, 05:29 PM
I think that after driving 3 tripples going to a 800 twin was not a good choice. *Like i said before the tripples offer you somthing the twins dont. *I hope you have fun with it and its not a bad sled its a fregin awsome sled. *I dont blame you for not buying a sled that is outdated and wont handle that great. *
I weigh 278 lb I can drive the mach through the trails real fast. *Can keep up the the best mxz drivers. *But its still hard and the brakes start glowing and it all needs to be changed. *
10-26-2001, 07:04 PM
IF you cant drive a CK3 chassis ski-doo on a tight trail then you maybe should consider another sport. I get a kick out of the magazines promoting the twins.The only thing they got going for them is a bit of less weight when you get stuck.I drove a new variable exhaust 700 Polaris late last year,nice sled, but they forgot to put an engine in it!
10-26-2001, 08:14 PM
I'm hanging on to my triple for another year and I hope some of the rumors on here are true about a new ZX triple, I like the handling of the MXZ but I like the ride, gas milage and sound of my CK3 machine better.
10-26-2001, 09:45 PM
I had heard too that ski-doo may introduce a triple sled in the ZX chassis, but another intersting twist is that it will be 900+cc's to put to rest the T-Cat vs Mach Z debate. If they make it, sign me up!!!
How about a 900 triple and call it a mach1 with a single pipe and a mach 111 with triple pipes
10-27-2001, 10:04 AM
A single pipe 900 would be a torque monster if it's anything like my F3, I would be happy just to see the 700 triple back but with EFI.
10-27-2001, 10:48 AM
Madmaxx4, I will take offence to the driving comment and you my friend are missing the point.
I think what we would all like to see is a new variation of the of the big HP triple.
Although the Mach Z is great sled it is virtually unchanged since 99.
I get a new sled almost every year and don't want to feel like I'm hopping on the same sled I just traded in, I went to the MXZX 800 because it's different.
I for one will return to a triple when (if) a new model is designed.
10-27-2001, 04:55 PM
gentlemen, i agree and i own 2 mxz's although i probably would not own a mach z it's just not me.
but every manufacturer needs a "one to beat" like the mustang is to ford, the corvette for gm or the cbr1100 for honda motorcycles. without this what is carrying the trophy starts to crumble. even though i probably would not own a machz it is still great to go to the ski-doo dealership and sit on a machz knowing this is the fastest sled made period. that is where the confidence is, the big power. who can disagree with 80 years of experience. those missed years of racing in the mid seventies cost ski-doo huge and will not soon be forgotten at head office. i think if we wait we will be impressed ski-doo is not dumb.
10-28-2001, 06:24 PM
Paul that was a good point. *I agree skidoo is not dumb. *There has to be somepeople that like tripples working there. *I just thought that if they look at there sales figures and read all the twin supporting articals that they might think - Well they would probably be a little mad but they would all get on the bandwagon and drive a 800twin. *An 800 twin is not my style machine. *I like to hit the gas and before i know it im passing cars on the highway next to the lake with there kids going WOW what a sled. *And to top it of the people in the distance hear a melody of tripple sounds that is music to everyone but twin owners who always question there buy. *
10-28-2001, 06:26 PM
Paul that was a good point. *I agree skidoo is not dumb. *There has to be somepeople that like tripples working there. *I just thought that if they look at there sales figures and read all the twin supporting articals that they might think - Well they would probably be a little mad but they would all get on the bandwagon and drive a 800twin. *An 800 twin is not my style machine. *I like to hit the gas and before i know it im passing cars on the highway next to the lake with there kids going WOW what a sled. *And to top it of the people in the distance hear a melody of tripple sounds that is music to everyone but twin owners who always question there buy. *
10-28-2001, 08:49 PM
Machzzzz1, one thing you are so right about and that is, there is not a more beautiful sound than a triple givin'er across an open feild. that sound is just wonderful out of any make triple. yes even though it is not me when i hear one i get the want one feeling.
have faith in the 80 years of ski-doo they must know they need to be at the top with the big power.
10-29-2001, 12:28 PM
Yes paul theres nothing like the sound of a tripple and when you hear it you know it will be passing you shortly. *
10-29-2001, 01:26 PM
Dont worry ski-doo will come threw for us guys!
I ride a mach!!!
i love my baby!!
I have faith in skidoo.
10-29-2001, 04:28 PM
Lets all resurrect triple sleds!!!.......I am e-mailing ski-doo right now and demanding the "MACH III".:angry:
10-29-2001, 06:18 PM
http://www.snowmobileworld.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif New 8 or 900 triple in new chassis is what I would like to see. I would like the weight some where between the Mach Z and the MXZ 800. Why jam a triple in the allready 4 year old ZX chassis. Unfortunatly you are more likely to see new twin chassis with 900 twin or Ski-doo spend alot more engineering time on 4 -stroke sleds. We have to let them know with our wallets what we want or the twins will keep coming. The T-CAT is all done this year and the Mach is next. I can not imagine any Bombardier Marketing guy commiting engineering resources to a catagory that is dying through out the Snowmobile world. It would be career suicide. http://www.snowmobileworld.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif
10-29-2001, 07:45 PM
I wish someone with a voice at bombardier would read this and realise theres a market out there. *
The fact is that most people arent detured by the tripple engine. *There detured buy the old CK3 Chasie. *The ZX chassie is better in almost everyway to toss up all of that good just for a tripple motor is not the majority its the devoted lovers of speed. *
The problem is that the mach is only good for straite line power. *Its not that great in the trails, *It cant jump, *Its not agile. *
The mxz however is great for trails, Great for jumps, Is agile, *Good for touring, *Has engines for bigginers and experts. *That is why they get the sales and us to open our wallets. *
But not me. *Im with the tripples till there done. *All they have to do is offer a tripple engine in a chassie that is multipurpous like the mxz and i think they will have a TOP SELLER. *
If anyone knows how we could send this or get someone from bombardier to read this please post. *Im suprised they dont do all there R&D through this forum because this is a great place for knowledge. *
The thundercat maybe dying but there is a reason for that. *The market follows skidoo. *If they sell tripples AC will sell tripples. *THIS IS WHY I BELIVE I RIDE THE BEST. *
10-29-2001, 07:52 PM
Just ask Yamaha if triple's are dead, I rest my case.
10-29-2001, 08:07 PM
Yeah the only problem is yamaha's dead. *They are not trying to make an impact only trying to BE THERE. *
But i admire yamaha for sticking to the tripples because they know its a supperior engine combo. *It will pay of for them when the market switchs back to tripples and there experts at it.
10-29-2001, 08:37 PM
You hit it on the head! *The reason that I didn't and won't buy a triple is solely because of that chassis. *If the 8 (or 9) triple was in a *better (lighter) chassis. *I would buy it in a heartbeat.
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it, I wouldn't buy the Cat or Paul Harris either. *Just too much weight for me. *
Bring on the new chassis and I'm there. *Do you have an appropriate email address at Doo so I can officially make my thoughts heard?
10-29-2001, 10:16 PM
I disagree machzzzz1, the CK-3 is way more agile than you give it credit. My buddies on ZX chassis's can't outrun me thru the trails nor can they out jump me. *As a matter of fact, I have a buddy with a bad back on an mxz 800 twin that switchs sleds with me when the trails get really rough. *He said my sled rides smoother thru the rough stuff (I have an ETS kit). *I think the best comparison is this, on a rough road, what rides better, an olds delta 88 or a chevy monza?! *You are right on one thing, they get out of my way on the straightaways. *Don't get me wrong, I like the ZX platform, it's just that at 6'3", 225 lbs., the CK-3 fits me like a glove.
10-30-2001, 08:39 AM
Yeah your right. *But at 6.3 you can tame anything. *The zx just looks less frightening for a smaller guy. *
Im 6.5 and i drive the mach great though the woods. *But my friend whos 5.8 can hardly do a turn. *Remember this is fast driving anyone can drive it at the speed limit. *
10-30-2001, 08:41 AM
Or even if it is just as good. *Skidoo doesnt let you know that. *Theres a lot of people going with the ZX because they think its a SAFE BUY. *THE CK3 is a mystery to most because you dont see that many of them. *
By the way mightymach. *YOU JUMP YOURS. *You have to tell me how it went.http://www.snowmobileworld.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif
10-30-2001, 10:58 AM
This is what I call jumping, it may differ from others. *There's a spot up in Michigans UP on the west side where these power lines go for miles. *Up and down, large sweeping hills. *We all take turns being the leader. The lead rider will crest the hill and look for on coming traffic, if he gives a thumbs up, we hammer it. *Talk about catching air! *Of all the sleds that I have ever owned, my ck-3 flies perfectly.
10-30-2001, 11:19 AM
Sweet. *I might try some of that this year. *
One thing i really like about the mach is how you sit right back and you are sort of reclined and the gauges are way in front of you. *THe new zx has everything in your face and it feels to top heavy even though that is just an ilusion. *
10-30-2001, 04:34 PM
Bottom line - they aren't selling many triples any more so why throw money at a project you won't get much back out of. *The majority of buyers have moved over to twins so that is where they have concentrated their efforts the last few years.
I would like to see a triple in the ZX (or a new) chassis as well but unless it offers a substanstial weight savings and handling improvement over the current CK3 chassis I am going to stick with my 800 twin. *For the majority of riding that I do, it is more fun. *I do miss my old MachZ, but only on the lake!
10-30-2001, 09:57 PM
The buyers were almost forced to buy twins. *Everyone didnt just wake up and want a twin. *The magazines suported twins, The companyies made them in the newer machines that everyone wanted and so they killed the tripple themselfs. *I have a feeling if the enviromentalist dont ruin it for 2 strokes that the tripple will come back.
10-31-2001, 06:58 AM
the mach is realy rare to see in the seattle area.
but saw a mach at the dealler today 53 miles on odometer
whith a 144x1.75 track useing slp extenshions.
not many grand touring sleds eather.
frend has a 800 x highmark whith 2 up seat and every thing that comes on the touring sled
any way I wonder how the mach holds against the sumit whith the same size track??
10-31-2001, 07:29 AM
Does everyone in your neighborhood have a new or maybe one or two year old vette? *I don't understand why not? It must be that not everyone wants one. The same thing with the MachZ. *Its expensive! *You get what you pay for. If every person here could get a MachZ for the price of a twin how many would jump at the opportunity?! *Machzzzz1 made a very good point several posts ago, I'm a big dude at 6'3", 225 and I don't have a problem throwing around the Mighty Mach. *I'm sure the average rider at 5'9" can't say that so they need a smaller sled to muscle. At least that's the expieriance I have with the guys I ride with. *All the big guys are on CK-3's while the smaller dudes are on the s-2000 or mxz chassis'. *I was told last season by a big wig at Bombardier that the CK-3 would be around for a while mainly because it gave riders another choice. *Back to the vette again, chevrolet sells fewer vettes than any other car it sells, does that mean they should stop making it?!?!
The ck3 chassis imo Is good for cruising. I bought one when they first came out in 98 because it was the newest offering by skidoo, I was told bythe dealer how great it was, how it handled so well bla bla bla. I tried to ride it like a mxz and you cant. I dont care how big or good you think you are the zx chassis is head and shoulders above the ck3 tank, for that matter I prefered the f2000 and the s2000 over the ck3. Anyways I fell in love with the tripple but not enough to keep the chassis it came in.
10-31-2001, 05:46 PM
The ck3 chassie is way better then the s 2000. *You cant even compair. *It handles everyting better and turns about the same. *
Just because its heavy doesnt mean its sucks at handling. *Just means it weighs more. *
I wonder how it would be if they put a 42inch skistance.
10-31-2001, 09:19 PM
hey machzzz1, i am sure you are going to keep it up long enough and they will not stop at the triple. ski-doo will be going for a quad you will have them so sold on it.
10-31-2001, 10:27 PM
I totally disagree with tb2. The CK-3 rocks with a good rider of the proper size and weight. I have yet to have the almighty mxz loose me. I stay right on their ###'s and patiently wait for a straightaway and BAM, I'm gone. Another reason I ride the ck-3 is its looks, my black mach with its yellow graphics is simply stunning. There are so few black 99's around that people are always asking what I'm riding and commenting on what a cool looking sled it is. It upset's a couple of my buddies that have both 98's and a couple 2000 milliniums. I don't want to ride a sled that every other joe is riding, mxz's are everywhere! I'm really looking forward to every other sled this year being a viper..............
11-01-2001, 09:13 AM
I like how you worded the part about taking a mxz
"I stay right on their ###'s and patiently wait for a straightaway and BAM, I'm gone." *Its so true.. *They dont have a hope in ####.
11-01-2001, 09:18 AM
You guys are crazy!
I mean that in a good way! *:D *:D *:D
now what if it was a green thundercat in front of you? How long is that straightaway gonna need to be ? *
Im glad it worked out for you. No matter what I did this sled pushed in the corners when driven hard. I had 10" carbides the front skis cranked up, the limiter strap pulled up a few holes butt slid up to the gas tank (Im 6.0 205),and the results were the same. Great if ridden at a moderate level, or fair when the snow conditions are very hard packed and grippy and lousy all the other times. Im just wondering why I have never seen one on a snow cross track racing in the 800 or open class if they handle and fly so good??
11-01-2001, 09:29 AM
Ha Ha Ha Good question. *
The mach would be like a corvette or a dodge viper. *Very fast in a straite line. *Can turn and corner and If you want to jump them well? *Go for it Not saying its going to be pretty. *
The Mxz is like a SUV. *Some suvs are fast, *Some can even corner, *But they can jump better then any other veichle.
The problem with snomobilers is that all the snowmobiles are so close in a lot of catagories that you buy which looks better. *
For motorcycles if you wanted to race or turn you buy a sport bike. *If you wanted to jump you buy a dirt bike. *Snowmobilers dont have that kind of seperations because all the machines are good and the driver can hide little flaws with his or hers technic. *Saying this i belive that a expert driver on a mach hiding the little flaws by driving it better then the avrage joe can out do a mxz because the mxz driver has a lot less power to work with. *
11-01-2001, 11:02 AM
very well said machzzzz1. I did not mean to imply that the CK-3 handles as well as the mxz, I meant it will handle real well with a good rider. My point was with a good rider, the similarities are soooo close there isn't a noticable difference. Plus, looks is a major point in my decision in sled choices and I simply prefer the looks of the CK-3. *Oh yea, the thundercat issue, I can honestly tell you that I have never been beat by a relatively stock one. *Modified are a different story, fortunately, I haven't run in to many good running thunderkitties.
11-01-2001, 09:53 PM
SO much of the sleds handling is a direct result of rider skill. *You will not be able to just jump on any machine and expect it to taylor to you.. *You have to taylor to the machine and drive it the best it can be driven.
11-02-2001, 10:53 AM
Simply put you can compensate for a so-called handling advantage but how do you compensate for a HP advantage (assuming the power is getting to the snow)? I have a 98 Mach Z and am 5'11", 190 lbs. I have no problem showing my sled who's boss and have yet to be passed when I don't want to be (my old 95 XCR 600 used to tire me out twice as much). The majority of the people that complain about the CK3 (or heavy 3x3's for that matter) have never even driven one, they just go with the hype and take what the magazines publish as gospel (I know, I used to be one of them until I made the mistake of taking my buddy's 96 Zed for a spin - hooked for life!). Sorry but the twinkie twins are not for me either (each to there own), once you get a taste of "big block" power there's no going back! As for a snocross track because the speeds seldom go above 60 mph the "heavy" triple is at a big disadvantage (this is where the agile quick turning ability of the lighter twins shines). It's a good thing that the real world is not a snocrosss track! http://www.snowmobileworld.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif
11-02-2001, 11:19 AM
Very Well put RockZ!
11-02-2001, 11:48 AM
I'm confident that this issue has been covered from every possible angle. *Maybe one of you Triple lovers should put together some sort of form letter that we could all print off, sign our names and send to Ski-Doo. *If we were to draw some attention to the amount of people wanting a new triple creation maybe we could make a difference. *Maybe not but it seems like it could be worth it, the amount of energy that has gone into this post alone could have generated hundreds of letters heading towards the Doo big-wigs. *
Just a thought.
11-02-2001, 11:56 AM
I would love to do that. *Only problem is i dont know were to tell anyone were to send it and am not that great at writing letters. *If anyone has some time and can draw one up Outlining what we discussed about the future of the tripple doo's I would sign my name on it in a heart beat. *Or at least I need some help getting this done. *
11-02-2001, 12:04 PM
Unless someone already knows, I will find out where to send the letters. *I'm not however going to write it because I don't know squat about the Mach Z.
11-02-2001, 12:10 PM
Hey what's with ripping on the twins? I have put a considerable amount of miles on a 96 F111 and yes in some instances you can come through corners better that's if you can keep the skis on the ground, all sleds are different that's the way they are designed, and I'm sorry but I'm sure all you ck3 guys can keep up with any ZX chassis but in the end who's ### and back are killin them? and also most of you guys must ride where their are alot of lakes or long strait stretches? around here the longest strait stretch is 500 yards and I don't care if you are riding a mach z or a thunder kitty you will not pull away from my mxz 800 or my wife's pretty yellow 670 H.O.http://www.snowmobileworld.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/excl.gif!just my opinion but I think we all should consider our riding style and our riding conditions before we start talking out of our #####.
RockZ: Exellent reply! Thats what I have been saying for years a lot of magazine hype has turned the snowmobile industry into a fickle market.First we had to have big iron(750 to 900cc) next it was the baby triples (600cc) then it was the light twins, than the 800cc now these idiots are talking about 900 twins. Can you picture trying to pull them over on a -25 degree morning ? Now I,ll go on to suspensions, when I started riding we had boggies with 2 or 3 inches of travel and the same in the front with the leafs on the skis, now we talk about 10 -12 inch suspensions as a required item. I think we have it somewhat backwards,twenty years ago the trails were narrow,rough and for the most part ungroomed, thats when we needed the long travel units, but we kept on riding and the sleds got light years better. The bottom line here is my old,heavy (530#) Mach Z is as fast as the newer ones on our great smooth trails we now can enjoy,and to me its no fun riding over a rough trail at break neck speeds, I'll let the pros doo that and save my back and money for Robaxacet. Just my views hope I didn,t bore to many forum users. Dino. http://www.snowmobileworld.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif
11-02-2001, 12:19 PM
Ok, to make this easier and thus generate more response. *If someone can whip up a Word document and email it to me I will forward it to anyone requesting it. *They can then put it into a new message and email it to Ski-Doo. *
If we can get this rolling I'll create a new post for people to give me their email address and I'll forward the letter. *
Still one problem, Who will write the letter? *
Anyone? Anyone? *Bueller? Bueller?
11-02-2001, 12:22 PM
I gotta go away for the weekend when i get back if nobody wrote it I will try. *It only has to be like 1 page.
11-02-2001, 09:21 PM
hispd, sorry if I offended you, I'm not usually one to feel the need to rag on the twins (unless provoked!). I threw that twinkie twin comment in for a buddy of mine that won't shut up about how much faster and superior his 700 twin is because it handles better than my ill handling heavy Mach (I guess I should have clarified that but wanted him to read it first). Why is it that the majority of the people that are on the lightweight twin craze feel the need to constantly remind us triple guys that we are riding big heavy tanks that don't turn? Is our huffing and puffing at the rest stop that obvious or are they just feeling a little insecure because they know their sled is slower and therefore feel the need to point that out? If they were really that bad do you think we would still be on them? Could it be that that's the only thing they can come up with to knock them?
The trails, ditches and lakes we ride seldom see speeds under 50 mph and thats riding safely (my buddy has yet to prove his theory, something always happens like he didn't know we were racing or his belt is worn or he was down 300 rpm etc.). I do wonder why however that the standard response when you beat a lightweight twin is usually "that sled may be fast in a straight line but that's about all it's good for"? If the majority of people rode around in circles on a snowcross track or powder in the mountains then that would hold true but I think it's safe to say that this is not the case. Like you said it depends on where you ride. At the present the lightweight twins are the most popular sleds around here but I prefer among other things the high speed stability of a big triple. I look at it this way, I'd rather be buzzing along at 80+ mph in a Chevy Camaro rather than a Honda CRX, each to their own (not that there's anything wrong with a CRX). http://www.snowmobileworld.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif
11-02-2001, 11:32 PM
And I apologize for getting huffy,like I said it's all about your(our) riding conditions, it's all good if people never disagreed what fun would all of this be, atleast we can all say we are the proud owners of the most advanced, reliable, fastest sleds on the market. (in my opinion)!! http://www.snowmobileworld.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif
11-03-2001, 07:14 PM
Hey, Mighty Mach, you hit the nail right on the head about the looks of your 99 mach. Its even got an engine to back up its good looks. It sure is fun not to have a sled all these hyped up Magazine editors want you to drive. With one of these babies we have the option of who goes ahead or stays behind.(and that goes for Thunder Putty drivers also)
11-03-2001, 10:54 PM
There is a segment of snowmobiling that requires the OEM to cater to their needs. The Mach Z appeals to a breed that needs serious power. The true test of power is drag racing. The Mach Z dominates every professional class that requires the use of stock cylinders.
As far as cost, even used a good one costs a wad greenbacks, or a sizable sack of Looney`s for our Canadian bretheren, but if ya gotta have big n fast it doesn`t get any better. I do hope it stays around. I have a feeling it will. There`s something about a big 3x3 rollin up to a group isn`t there? It almost doesn`t matter which brand in keeping with the spirit of this post. When twin riders see that sled pull up, there`s a lil bit "...oh man..." That keeps the buisness going. The Mach Z is a plateau. A high level of power that can handle trail conditions. Maybe it`s like a vette like an earlier post said. Personally, I consider it a Super Pro drag car for the snow.
I love my Mach Z. I`ll stay on one from now on. If Ski-Doo is reading any of these, my last statement is why you oughtta keep buildng them. *
11-04-2001, 09:51 AM
HIGHLANDER, your right about "The true test of power is drag racing". I look at everyday riding as a form of drag racing. Everytime you come out of a corner and let her rip it's a drag race! Simply put the fastest accelerating sled will be in front at the next corner because of it's ability to drag race (assuming it's safe to pass). It's also great when your riding midpack and get caught smelling the roses just when everyone decides to pick up the pace a notch. One or two straighaways later and you've reeled them back in again (depends how badly you were snoozing!). It's usually not a good idea to go flying into blind corners so in most cases a handling advantage isn't going to gain you any ground (unless of course your running on a closed track/course).
As for Ski-doo reading this board I wouldn't doubt if they did. They were the ones that pointed this site out to me last year when I e-mailed asking them about what I thought was excessive oil consumpion which in turn was causing may rave valves to carbon up evry 500 miles. We can only hope!
I'm sorry but theres no way a ck3 will out handle a s-chassis. *I know they are both old sleds now but last season my 97'mxz670 with blt and m-10 will easily out rail a buds' 98' machz with blt and m-10. *He never liked to admit it but all out driving in the twisties he would get left corner to corner. *His was a decent machine but it pushed to bad in the corners and always went high. *He had the flex skis with 9" of carbide and about everycorner it would want to take the high line nomatter where you put it. *I had the old plastic/steel with 9" and I could cut wherever I needed to put the machine even in the middle of the corner. *Eventually I would pull away because he would have to back off and play with the throttle to keep the sled lower into the corner. *Eventually he ate a tree with it and collected insurance. *This year he finally admits how much a POS it was but didn't want to give me the satisfaction of telling me how mine handled better. *He will not buy another because he hated the sled and he was a bigger guy. *6'2 220 and it was a cramped machine for him. *I'm only 5'10" and the ck3 felt like a cracker box, the handlebars would hit my knees unless I rocked them outside and the seat tank junction is so fat that it feels like a whale. *I'm not complaining about the triple though. *In fact were both building s-chassis 809 sleds as I write this. *Pretty much the best components as far as suspension and skis, footboards, 1.25 tracks, full ball bearing steering with summit handlebars risers, slp trailing arms, cut weight wherever possible without affecting strength. *In fact all my carb mount flanges and coil brackets are aluminum to cut down on ounces. *It all adds up and next year I'm goin to a Boss seat, and light hood. I'm sure I will catch heck but the ck3 is a dead horse and remember the old saying "you can't polish a turd"!
11-05-2001, 12:20 PM
ETS, you are talking about a 98 CK-3. This was its first year and many changes were made for 99. The front end was the biggest change going from the DSA over to the ADSA. The steering colume was moved forward a couple inchs and made a big difference. I ride with a couple guys with 98's and I can tell you that there is a noticable difference between their 98's and my 99. Most people think the only changes were with the pipes.
Please explain the difference in the front ends. *They both have unequal lenght radius rods so what's the difference? *As far as the 99' I've ridden a 99' f111 700 and didn't notice any difference as far as cramped footboards and bars in your lap. *Besides the BLT kit on a 98' is way better than any differences in a so called adsa. *It was a low riding front end bottoming pig before the blt. *I know the 99's were also low riders in the front. *That stock 41' stance on the 98' was the tippiest thing going. *I don't care how much you suck down the limiter strap or tighten the acm nut it was a very unprecise ski-lifter. *I'd take a f-body before a ck3 anyday. *
11-05-2001, 03:14 PM
An F-body over a CK-3? What are you on? I've owned both, there is no comparison! As far as the s-2000 goes, I have both, a 99 mxz670 H.O. and a 99 Mach Z and for me, the CK-3 fits me better. The only thing I like better about the mxz is from a hot dogging point of view. I can litterally throw it all over the place. On the same token, it doesn't absorb the punishment the CK-3 does. Every rut in the trail is transfered thru the s-2000 chassis to my rearend! As far as the front ends go, the geometry has been changed on the 99 Mach from 98. How or what was done, I'm not really sure. All I can say is that I can go thru the twisties much quicker on my sled over my buddies. Then when we switch sleds, he out runs me on my sled. Don't insult some of us and try to compare the F-body to the CK-3.
11-05-2001, 03:26 PM
ETS: you say your 5'-10 and you bang your knees on the handle bars? The top of the gas tank is not a foot rest, not sure if you knew that?
I am 6'-00 and ride a 2000 MachZ. I have never ever banged my knee on anything let alone the bars.
And what do you wear for boots?Size 20?
There is all kinds of foot room
11-05-2001, 03:56 PM
I'm 5'10" at 180#'s and I had to move my knees out of the
way on sharp turns on my CK3 until I rolled the bars forward
a little bit. The CK3 wears me out after 2-3 days of hard
riding. Sore arms and shoulders so then I get on my S-2000
and proceed to throw it around till my back hurts then I
take a rest for a week a repeat!!!
We tried to move the handlbars forward but then our fingers would hit the windshield at extreme turning. *As far as durability, I've owned a 98'f111 700 and he owned this98' mach and both of them had the steering rod supports break where they are welded to the frame. *Nothing like losing steering and then pulling the pipes and crawling down in there trying to Tig weld it. *Maybe it's just the 98', 99's that don't fit me good but they were so crappy I wouldn't care to ride a 00. *As far as the f-2000 chassis, it's all updates. *Your mach is probably 4years newer than a buddies 97' machz with a m-10 and widened front end but I'd take it anyday over the ck3. *I don't know about stock machines, I try not to ride them or do I like them. *Once you get used to the good parts everything else is rough. * *I'm not shooting my mouth off but I can seriously believe and say that I or anyone else riding it can take that 97' mach (with the good stuff) and out trail a ck3 very easily. *It just handles better and doesn't have any ski-lift with the m-10 and widened front really helps stability. *I'm not saying I"m a good rider even, the machine does the work and most of the guys we let ride our stuff usually don't want to get back on their sleds. *About the footwells what I mean is theres plenty of room inside of them but the 98' is at such an angle that it felt like my knees were in my chest, the only way to stretch them out to a comfortable spot was to ride on the back of the seat. *My style is to sit up by the tank like a mx bike and the ck3 doesn't allow me to do it. *It is a good looking sled though and I'm not on here to #### people off, just some of my opinions to stir the pot.
11-06-2001, 07:13 AM
ETS, I too don't know where your coming from. I'm 5"11 and have a 98 Zed (bought it new and plan to keep it for several more years as it's been a great sled). I find there's plenty of room on it and I have never had a problem with my knees hitting the bars??? If I stretch right out to a comfortable position I'm still not at the back of the seat let alone on it (I too ride up on the tank when riding aggressive and it's never been a concern?). If you think space is limited on the CK-3 you should try an Indy wegde!
11-06-2001, 08:38 AM
ETS, if you like the f-body that well more power to you. *But like I said earlier, don't insult us and try to make us believe that it in any way compares to the CK-3. *I had a 97 Mach Z and know what its limitations were. *Sounds to me like you are trying to justify in your mind how good your sleds are so you don't have to go out and buy newer ones.
11-06-2001, 11:05 AM
ETS, the only bad thing i can think of on the MachZ is when your going WOT and hit a bump, a parachute could be handy,
may be i'll talk to "bombardier" about that
I know in my mind the ck3 I had and my buddies were crap. *Hey, maybe the newer ones are better but not in my mind. I traded a 95' f111 with boivin c-7 ugrade for the 98' f1117 and was happy until I rode my old 95' that I sold to my buddy. *I was disgusted with it after that because it rode worse than boivin c-7 by far and I couldn't get rid of the ski lifting in hard corners and the overall tippy feeling. *Only had the sled one miserable season and then back tracked to a 97'mxz670 that I had trail ported, added the m-10 and blt. * Maybe a stock ck3 is better than a f-2000 but the m-10 and blt makes those sleds come alive. *For some reason the m-10 and blt didn't make the ck3 come alive. *It was great in the bumps but it just didn't want to corner and will not hold a line like the other chassis. *Very nervous with or without pcs strips. *Stock for stock it probably rides better than fchasssi *but at least my old 95' f111 would hold a decent line without to much effort. *I don't want a newer sled, I can ride the wifes mxz600 whenever I want but it doesn't compare to the old s-chassis with the m-10 and blt. *That's why the 809 is in my 97 mxz. *I like the triple but the ck3 isn't for me. *I can't believe you can honestly tell me in a rough trail system a stock suspended low riding ck3 mach is gonna out handle and run a f-chassis or s-chassis with the m-10 and blt. *Let me guess your idea of a mod sled is a checkered windshield and colored grips. *I'm in michigan and we can meet anywhere in the state for some friendly comparisons and hopefully some riding. *For the day or weekend, doesn't matter. *For sure there will be two 97' mxz809's done up and maybe the 97'machz with m-10, his wife's having a baby soon and he's on father detail this winter.
11-06-2001, 11:28 AM
Sounds like we do need to compare. I too live in Michigan, most riding is done at my buddies place in the Houghton Lake-Grayling area and of course the UP. *As far as mods go, I do have the checkering kit for my windshield! *How did you know? *Seriously, besides that, ETS kit for the ride. Engine mods include; Thicker base gasket, shaved head, gutted air box with jetting to match and a PPP Superlite can. *In the drive line I use an HRP Black Ice helix. *Do you want to know the real reason I went to the CK-3? *I loved my 97 MachZ, but the headlite was horrible! *I did prefer the seating position on the 97, I felt more like I was on the sled where the CK-3 makes you feel like you're in it. It took some getting use to. *I do like it now.
11-06-2001, 05:03 PM
Iwas the one ETS is talking about that had the 98 machz. I love the looks of the sled but like he was saying it was a POS. Riding position was terrible and handling was poor. Riding that sled in my opinion was scary, i could never take both hands off the bars without feeling like i was going to kiss a tree (which i eventually did anyway, best thing that could have happened to the sled in my popinion) i am 6'2" 200 and this thing made me feel like i was riding a mini-z, i could never get up on the sled and feel in control, i have rode a 99 f3700 and i dont think it was any better, especially having the stock ski stance, always gfelt super tippy. I could never hang with his on his 97 mxz670 in the tight stuff, the ck3 would always feel nervous and never hold a good line. Iwould jump on his 97 mxz and feel way in control. I am also the one that bought his 95 f3 600 and sold it last year to buy the ck3 machz. I thought i was actually going forward when in fact i really wish i would have never sold the sled, I personally like the f-body more myself. I am also the other one building the 97 mxz809, our sleds mods include: m-10,blt front end, i have usi project x skis,completely case ported and shimmed cylinders,(our dealer is telling us we should be in the 175 horsepower+ range)v-force reeds,jaws pipes (custom built by greg balchin for this application) 1-1/4" paddle tracks with all open windows and extrovert drivers, and soon to be boss seat and twintec hood from specialty sleds. Neither of us are on here to bad mouth anyone, but mightymach if you would like to meet up somewhere when the snow flies we would love to, i personally would like to meet some people from this and the amsnow forum. we are located in battle creek michigan. Hopefully next week we will have some good pictures online of our machines. We will post them when we get them.
11-07-2001, 08:27 AM
You guys are mistaken. *Either you never drove a Ck3. *Or you expect it to handle like somthing else. *
You cant drive it like a ZX or S its got its own personality. *I own every sled chassie skidoo made going back to the 294 TNT. *When i go for wide tight turning trails that need to be apexed i go for the mach nothing throttles out of a corner like the smooth tripple. *When i Ice ride its the mach. *When i ride in feilds i use the MXZ ZX same for powder. *The S chassie is a great chassie. *It handles just like the Mach only just not as crisp. *It darts more then anything, Is very hard to set up, *Handleing changes big time as the snow does. *These are all signs of a poorly designed machine. *The S chassie is a very fun sled but the all around performance of the mach and what it can do with a very experienced driver is what i hope skidoo enhanses on. *Because i belive it can be a better machine suited for a bigger margin of people.
To compaire the S, ZX or CK3 to the F is imposible it doesnt matter how good you are a F chassie will never touch any of the newer ones. It is only good for racing now but it has inside ski lift like you wouldnt belive and thats why skidoo got rid of it. *I would almost say it was a bit dangerous that a machine with that kind of poor stability could go that fast. *
But to each his own. *Dont come and post here about Twins and S and ZX chassies if all your going to do is say there better. *We the Mach drivers know what we like and hope skidoo does somthing that will inspire more people to like it. *Do you think everyone that has a mach started out on a Mach. *I have drivin everything and if i had to sell my machines the last one to go would be the Z.
11-07-2001, 08:44 AM
I'm trying to figure out how some one at 200 lb can compare a mach to a mini-z, i'm 6-00 180 lbs and i feel small.When i crack the throttle, i feel like a flag on a pole in a 100mph wind.
http://www.snowmobileworld.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif :0 http://www.snowmobileworld.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif
Well once again I will state that a properly setup f-chassis with the m-10 and blt will walk away from a ck3 in the handling department as far as rough corners and general trail riding. *Stock for stock I can't remember becuase I'ts been a long time since I"ve ridden a stock f-chassis. *That's kinda funny your telling me a f-body with the c-7 is tippy? *Ever ridden one? *Those sleds are low and dont ski lift like a ck3, the c-7 tranfers alot of weight and will lift if you don't suck the strap way down. * You ever put a fresh set of 9" carbides on your ck3 and try to make a couple turns on a iced over road? *Mine would try to flip me right on my lid because it was so unstable. *Maybe because it was a f111 with the longer front shocks, but I thought Rotaxtriples machz was tippy also. *My #1 complaint with either f or s chassis is the narrow ski stance. *When I widened up my mxz670 to 44" center to center it would handle corners as good as my mxz600 which mine happens to be 42.5 center to center. *My mxz600 ski lifts more than my 97mxz with m-10 and 44" front. *The f-chassis with m-10 and 44" front handles as good as anything out there except maybe an old 94' zr lowrider. *Those things were slung low and handled good. *I'm not talking snow-x either, just the tight, rough trails in michigan. * I can say when my trailing arms are at 0 degree camber with the widened front that it won't dart anywhere. *It's not the chassis thats the problem it just the accesories that bolt around it. *One minute you say the s-chassis is nice and the next it's a poorly designed machine. *Well I'll bring my updated poorly designed machine and run it against any ck3 in the trails regardless of any mods. *I'll do it on the lake also, not because I think I have the fastest sled out there but just to race for fun. *I'm sure I'll get beat on lake but it's gonna take a real healthy one to do it.
11-07-2001, 11:22 AM
ets: well it is nice to see you finally admit what the poorly * *designed machine is. Bring it up to the Bay of Quinte and show me what you claim in your post.
i have about 20 mile of bay to test it on.
ETS: I want you to know that I agree with 98 % of what your saying. I have a 93 F-chassis with a 43 inch wide front end and it handles with the best of them. Dino. http://www.snowmobileworld.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif *:)
11-07-2001, 02:33 PM
There's room on the bay for everyone.
11-07-2001, 04:30 PM
ETS I dont just ride the F chassie I own one. *Not in a mach form but in a formula 583. *I am taking stock to stock not with m-10 and BLT. *I dont know what your talking about but the F chassie felt so bad i dont even think i put 100km on it last year. *The s chassie is very fun to drive and rides in the same style as the mach. *Only problem is me on the Ck3 can go faster through any trail on the CK3. *Maybe thats because i drive it more but thats just the way it is up here. *The ZX is a diffrent feel all together. *Personally i dont like the feel of it. *If feels like your sitting upright and close to all the gauges and makes me feel top heavy. *The CK3 suits me just fine and i have friends that drive ZX and S and F and CAT and POL and YAM and no one can pull on me when im on the CK3. *
Im not calling you a liar. *Maybe you just feel better on the F and thats good. *But for me the CK3 is just fine and i like the feel. *So lets all just go and have fun this year like everyother year and drive the #### out of our Doo's.
11-07-2001, 10:17 PM
Precisely why there are so many different styles of sleds. *Everyone has a different preference, even within the Doo ranks. *I agree with Machzzz1, I don't like the feel of the ZX platform. *To be honest with you, I remember my first time out on my 99 mach, boy did those ski's seem like they were way, way out in front of me.
Can someone tell me the difference between a "S" and a "F" chassis. Dino.
Dino, there isn't a heck of alot different between the two chassis except lighter bodywork on the s-chassis. *I had each chassis down to the bare bulkhead this summer sitting side by side and can tell you they are the same thing with the addition of a different sway bar. *The f was a 94' and the s was a 97' so it had the adjustable sway bar. *Minor footboard differences but shock geometry and radius rod locations are identical between the two. *That is why they handle similiar with the good stuff. *The f has more poundage from extra brackets and *a hood that weighs more than a buick electra. *All along I've been saying my claims with the good parts added and you guys have been disagreeing with me, did you have a change of heart after realizing your sled comes with crap suspension? *I'll admit my zx comes with crap suspension, but it stays that way because the wife doesn't complain unless I let her ride mine. *The front is better on the zx than the past chassis but once you own a m-10 theres no comparison. *We'll be at tip up town at houghton lake for anyone wanting to hook up and ride with my old crap. LOL.
11-08-2001, 07:04 AM
then, why do they handle completly different. ???
Handling difference supposedly differs on the f-chassis. *In 95' or 96' they changed the trailing arms on the f so the ski-spindle sits more verticle. *This was supposed to make it turn a little lighter and more aggressive on the later version of f-chassis. * *There is alot more weight over the front of a fchassis triple due to the factory triple pipes and anyone ever lifted a set of those knows what I'm talking about. *If I remember correct and I'm not exact but should be close a 96' mach1 twin in the f-chassis weighed around 525 and the 96' mxz670 weighed in at 505. *An extra 25lbs on the nose will affect handling and this is just between the two twins. * I also am not sure how much difference the sc-10 high performanc and sc-10 cross country affect the handling of these sleds. *Most f chassis with sc-10 had the high performance while s chassis mxz's had the cross country version. *I don't know the differences in calibration but maybe one will allow ski-lift more than the other? *Sway bar differences between a fchassis and schassis mxz might make a difference also. *I'm not sure of the diameters between the two. *The two f-chassis I had were c-7's and they cornered flat because they were low riders. *I think part of the handling differences is in the ergonomics between the two. *The f does feel fat between your legs and your sitting lower so it rides you a bit more than you riding it. *The handlebars are also really low on the f-chassis. *The mxz's you sit more upright and the bars are higher with a skinnier gas tank. *This feeling helps with a sense of control. *Any motocrossers out there from the 80's to 90's know what I'm talking about. *Once the bikes started slimming down you felt like you could do more on them. *Heres some more of my opinions so let them rip, I enjoy it.
ETS: Right on, the chassis are almost the same, the main difference is the hood and belly pan. The foot rest angle was reduced and in I think 99 they got short arm, long arm to reduce ski lift on hard turns. I got the same effect by going to a 43 inch stance and skis from a 97 Mach Z that were mounted 25 mm back to in effect make a longer wheel base. I think a wider,lower stance was and still is the answer for better fast trail riding. The CK3 in 98 had a front end travel of 8 inches and in 99 went down to where the 93 started at 6.5 inches because of ski lift lower is still better as you can,t fight physics and centre of gravity. Dino. http://www.snowmobileworld.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif
You're right on the weight of the Mach1 but if my manual is correct, the mxz670 is 475, this is weired cause the mxz 583 1996 is 502 pounds. This would make a big difference. I know that my sled (96 mxz 670) tends to flip in corners easily because the centre of gravity is so high and the ski stance is 40" but it's great in bumps.
AC, you'll *be amazed at what a 44" or 43" or even 42.5" ski stance would do for your machine. *I've experimented with all three because I machined the radius rods and used rod ends and am happy with either over the stock but I like the 44" cuz bigger is always better, right? *I had a bud that had a 98'mxz670 and did nothing but complain about ski-lift but I would tell him to suck up the limiter strap and try it, if that didn't help then try ets bars, and then widen it. *He wouldn't do anything because he was lazy and to cheap to buy anything. *He sold it the next season still complaining about it. *I let him ride my 97' with the widened front and all he said was "why didn't mine handle and not ski-lift like yours". *Some people just don't get it. *He didn't want to be helped so he just complained. *I will say that 42.5 is all the wider I would go with stock shocks, after that the spring rates are to soft and you'll bottom alot. *I know the 505 lbs or maybe it was 502? came from my 97' mxz brochure that I use to compare specs. *I don't have a 96' so the mach weight was from memory. *I'll have to check my 97' race manual to find out which is correct. *Just widen that sled and you'll be a happy camper.
I was planning on widening it to about 42.5 but I don't want to pay for the bombardier kit. Is there a way to make it wider for a couple of bucks? My brother is in mechanical engenering at college and has access to the machining lab. One other thing is that I love doing powder and it's more fun with a 40" ski stance. I could always use a wider ski stance at the start of the season and change it to powder mode when there is alot of snow * http://www.snowmobileworld.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif *The 97 mxz 670 is 502 according to my manual and mxz 670 96 is 475, I wonder why ?
AC: I fabricated my own radius rods from .750X.100 wall 4340 steel, total cost was about $25. Like ETS said you would not believe the difference, a bonus of widening stance is it also lowers the front for a lower C of G and a bit less of attack angle for the track for more top speed. So back to the main question " What should they doo with the Mach Z " make it wider and lower. Dino. http://www.snowmobileworld.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif :
P.S. Been invited to the bay before and always left with a smile. http://www.snowmobileworld.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif
11-08-2001, 12:46 PM
Doo you guys know about the new ski leg for the mx-z renegade, you can change ski stance by switching them arround, am I right? I think that it goes from 40", and when you switch them arround, it becomes 42" or something like that. Can someone confirm this for me? ???
jeepster: I think that your right it looks like a very good feature. Great for sidehilling and trail riding,so wider is better like the Gran Prix add says. Dino http://www.snowmobileworld.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif
11-08-2001, 01:06 PM
Would it be possible to put those ski leg on earlier snowmobile models? That would be actualy better that a widening kits because you have the stance for sidehilling and in a few minutes you can have a grand prix style stance.
I've done it a couple ways, the best way is with rod ends all the way around and I used .75 dia 6001 aluminum, just smoother and looks neat. *I've also taken stock radius rods and cut it in two about 1" from the inside bolt eye and cut a sleeve however wider you want it and slide a solid steel pin about 4" long inside the hollow radius rod and then slide your sleever over it and then slide the other half of the rod end and TIG weld it back together. *The welds are on the inboard so you never see them once painted. *A little heavier but I"ve seen this setup hit a tree pretty good and the radius rod bent around the welded portion so it's solid. *This set up is free but you have to get some 5/8 aluminum and make wider tie rods or maybe the zx will work? *I"ve always made my own so I'm not sure if the xz ones are longer.
11-11-2001, 04:11 PM
Ok. *Im glad everyone thinks there machine or style of machine is the best. *Thats good. *
But back to the original post about how to save the mach. *The last serious post about the topic discussed about writting a letter to bombardier to help with the development of a new MachZ. *
We still need to know who will write it and where to send it. *A previous poster said he knew what to do but then he disapeared. *Lets do this or at least get them to come look at this and post what they think about it.
11-11-2001, 05:47 PM
machzzzz1, i think we could email this post can't we ? any ways some of the people earlier said the mach z triple engine was going to be in the new zx chassis. i don't think so because it is way too short for the high speed the engine will produce.
11-11-2001, 10:59 PM
e-mail this gorgeous lady, she's a ski-doo customer service rep and will pass our e-mails along to the proper people.
11-12-2001, 07:32 AM
Well if it`s going to Bombardier, I`d like to say that they need to keep the type 809, regardless of chassis. This is the dominant force of snowmobile drag racing, and as consumers we all relate to that better than snow cross. It`s how we all race our sled bretheren. Any sled racing is good for buisness,and yes snowX is packaged better for TV. But a little more push from an OEM would help the drag race end of things.
An ad from a couple seasons ago spelled out how many drag victories (over 200 I think!) were taken by Ski-Doo, as well as an NSSR record. We/they need this sled around. As of now there`s a youthful entry to snowmobiling and the smaller twins are a good start especially with reasonable payments. This has gone on for a while. There has to be a "pinnacle" sled to achieve as these new consumers grow in the market. That high mark is the MACH Z. Let`s hope it`s kept around for many years to come.
11-12-2001, 03:55 PM
Ok i will email her a link to this forum topic so she can read it and pass it on to the importent people at bombardier.
11-12-2001, 05:44 PM
Ok i sent the message. *I told them to come and look at this topic and gave them the link. *
I think they will come and look. *
I hope it makes a dent.
11-12-2001, 05:56 PM
I'm still here. Just waiting to see if anyone wants to put that letter together. I have two names for the letters to go to, one for Canada and the other for the U.S.
If we get anyone to write the letter. I'll get those names again and post them or people can email me.
I'll help with whatever is asked of me.
11-13-2001, 04:36 PM
Sledboy. *Lets give it a week and see if the bombardier person looks at the forum.
11-13-2001, 04:42 PM
HOLY **** *
Bombardier gave me a reply on the mach. *I dont think they looked at the forum yet but i think they will. *The person also hinted about A NEW MACHZ coming out here it is......
We would like to thank you for taking the time to contact Bombardier Recreational Products regarding your "snowmobileworld.com" posting concerning the Mach Z Ski-DooŽ.
In response to your e-mail, we would like to inform you that we have forwarded your information to the Ski-DooŽ marketing Department where they will no doubt be taking an interested look at it. We would like to assure you that we appreciate all the feedback that we receive from our loyal and passionate Ski-DooŽ supporters and thank you for the efforts that you have made to gather valuable comments from the Mach Z world. We hope that you will be among the first to visit the Ski-DooŽ website sometime in February, 2001 when the 2003 Ski-DooŽ line-up will be launched and trust that you will find a model to suit your needs and riding preferences. In the meantime, we would like to wish you an great Ski-DooŽ season.
On a completely different topic, we would like to kindly ask you to avoid sending emails directly to our Customer Assistance Representatives and invite you to send all future correspondence directly to the e-mail clearinghouse at firstname.lastname@example.org for a more efficient handling and guaranteed response.
Once again, thank you for contacting Bombardier Recreational Products and for your support of our sport. Please do not hesitate to contact our Customer Assistance Center if you need additional information, we will be happy to answer any future inquiries.
Customer Assistance Center
J (715) 848-4957 USA/(819) 566-3366 Canada
L (819) 566-3062
Bombardier Recreational Products
75 J.-A. Bombardier Street
Sherbrooke, QC *J1L 1W3
http://www.snowmobileworld.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif *:) *:)
11-13-2001, 06:51 PM
Now im getting very excited for febuary 2002. *
IS BOMBARDIER GOING TO RELEASE A NATURAL BORN KILLER..
11-14-2001, 06:58 AM
What do you guys think it will be. *A 900 tripple a 1000 tripple an 800 tripple. *Do you think it will kick ###.
You know as well as I do they will probably cram another overweight trail cruizer/lake runner down our throats. *Why would they spend *a fortune to make it into something they already make? *I would see a 900 twin before another triple. *I love a triple but even cat knows they are a dieing breed.
11-14-2001, 01:03 PM
They sure make it sound like something is coming in the way of a new triple. *
Whatever it is, I'm betting it will be a hot machine!
C'mon ETS, have some faith. * http://www.snowmobileworld.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif
11-14-2001, 02:54 PM
ETS - To skidoo CAT is nothing. *Just because arctic cat doesnt want to make tripples doesnt mean anything. *Bombardier like i said before sets the trends. *They dont follow anyones lead.
That's true, you just have to look at their ATV's *:0
11-14-2001, 04:46 PM
Hey. *Even though im not going to get into this. *There atvs are the strongest built atv's on the market. *
THey may not be the strongest accel, Or smoothest accel, Or best handleing. *But it will Last longer and give you better service. *
I own a 2000 Grissly and 2000 Kodiak. *My neighour just bought a Quest 650. *Its twice the bike mine is. *I will buy it next. *
I still cant belive how fast we got responded from Bombardier on the Mach Z. *Maybe unlike Other companies they really do care. *I think that the Mach is going to be around a lot longer and my confidence is restored. *Polaris and yamaha better watch out what they put in there commercials about being the best and fastest because it sounds like in Feb 2002 it would be False advertising.
11-14-2001, 05:34 PM
Well i have kept my nose out of this post for to long.
I have seen the work that Mostly Machzzzz1 and Mightmach have but into this subject and ETS still consistantly has CraP to say. Bombardier is not and i Quote" craming the Mach z down our thoat" because no one is holding a gun to our head to buy them.
I think this guy is flat broke, can't afford a good sled so makes nothing but insults to justify his lack of intelligence.
This forum /site has alway been very informative and alot of information has been given to those who required help to get there machine running.
This was to be a positive influence on all sled heads no matter what they rode.
read ETS and Rotaxtriples input to this forum and tell me one positive thing they have ever had to contribute??
Machzzz1 and Mightymach all the power to you, too keep the Mach alive
and remember rubber side down
11-15-2001, 08:48 AM
Thanks for the complement. *The only reason i did this is because I really love the MachZ. *It offers somthing the twins cant. *Sure it maybe heavy and doesnt turn as good as the zx but it has its plus points. *I know it is posible to design a chassie that can hold the 800 tripple engine yet out handle the zx and weigh less then the current CK3. *
My other suggestion is that bombardier bring back the F chassie because Like ETS claims its a million times better then every thing else on the planet. *SURE ETS. * http://www.snowmobileworld.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif
I hope my dream of a MachZ 3rd gen will come true next febuary. *I hopes its a ground up redisign not just some tinkering. *I also hope its not a ZX with a tripple because i want something fresh for the mach. *Give it a chance not a 3 year old chassie. *For once give it the edge over the MXZ. *Let it show off some new technology.
11-15-2001, 11:20 AM
I've finally sat on the sidelines long enough on this topic.I hope when they do redo the mach z they keep many of the ck3 chasis traits cause i think that the ck3 has gotten alot of underserved bashing.I myself have a mxz 800 but many of my riddin buds have ck3 sleds and when i know there is a nice long section of trail ahead i'll gladly offer to switch with one of them(my fav is form3 800 and i hope they do another triple sing pipe again).Lets face it these things do feel heavy but most guys riding em are in the 200lbs plus club so that isn't an issue anyways.It's about time bombardier sat up and listened to the riders and not some engineer or designer that hasn't turned a wrench in his life,and come on they only have rotax the best engine makers in the biz so ya know she'll be bullet proof.Just my humble opinion and LONG LIVE THE MACH!
11-15-2001, 01:54 PM
Sheat! I love the mach Z!
In my opinion, one of the sharpest sleds on the market.
I have a 2001 all chromed out, she is a low slung phat beauty just like my woman! haha. I would hope skidoo wouldn't get rid of the last muscle to there name. i agree with some of you with the lighter mx chassis, they just don't doo it for me. Granted they are great but I think bigger is better, fat bottom girls make the rockin wold go round!
11-15-2001, 10:23 PM
Whizzer, are you the whizbang that rides with Shayne, Jim W. and Erik B.?
If I never have anything helpful maybe you should read some of the other posts on here. *How about the 97'headlight/stator question or clutching the 670 that I gave information for. *I'll admit that I'm gonna give my .02 worth on ck3 sleds. *They are pretty much only good for lake running or wide open fireroad running. *Make fun of the f-chassis all you want and sure stock they are junk like every other 41"wide machine and sc-10, but put the suspension under it and it turn around. *I've already said I will meet in a reasonable area to trailride with your beloved ck3's. *Yup, I'm flat broke because I don't want to buy another overweight pig that I had once already. *Hey I'm sure they are great for you trail cruizers but pick the speed up a bit in a rough trail see where you end up. *Please don't tell me your gonna steer it by transferring your weight either.
11-16-2001, 08:31 AM
ETS. *What are you talking about. Transfering your weight is a big part of driving any sled. *The CK3 was designed to take care of the f chassie handleing problems. *The f chassie is not a bad sled no bombardier is a bad sled. *
Sure you may have giving a helpful tid of advice but for the most part your very one sided. *Its to bad because anyone that has done so much to a sled like yourself could be a very good asset to your sight. *But all you want is for everyone to sell there skidoos and buy f-chassies and put M-10 suspentions and modifiy this and that. *
Im not going to come looking for you but if we ever meet up on the trails ill personnally show you what a CK3 is all about. *As i said before Im not the fastest in a strait line (Theres allways someone faster) But im dynamite in the trails Where i can transfer the weight. *Im a big guy and the mach fits like a glove. *Ive never felt i was at a disadvantage.
11-16-2001, 10:12 AM
Quote from BUTCH800, posted on Nov. 16 2001, 10:23pm[b]Whizzer, are you the whizbang that rides with Shayne, Jim W. and Erik B.?
Na bra, I don't know thoses Kats I ride the UP of michigan eh!
11-16-2001, 10:31 AM
ETS. *A little bit of advice. *
If you want people to respect you. *Respect them. *
I used to be like you. *We would argue about a sled and i would put my foot down and swear by only one sled. *
The truth is that there are a lot of good sleds for diffrent riders. *
You want to know what the best handling sled is. *Its what ever the best driver is on. *Machines dont have limitations. *Drivers have limitations. *This argument isnt about reliability and sled build if it were i would fight for bombardier. *But no this is about the handling of a F chassie and Ck3. *Sure you added a lot of stuff. *But when bombarider went and redisgned the ck3 do you really think they would set out to make a poorly designed machine. *If you look at bombardiers past you will find that there resent machine is always superior to there old one. *
Even though you were one sided and arrogent about this matter. *I still respected you for knowing a lot about your machine and having all those upgrades. *But then you blew that with that dumb comment "Please don't tell me your gonna steer it by transferring your weight either." *
You lost it buddy right there . *If your sled was remote controled and you sent it out. *Do you think it would handle like it would with an experienced driver on it. Weight transfer is the key to fast riding. *It makes me wonder if your just on this fourm to annoy people and your doing a good job.
Start your own topic and post your own amazing findings on it.
11-16-2001, 11:49 AM
I find this forum very informative and educating and for the most post everyone on it is very helpful and supportive of others.I've always had the thought process that my sled may be fast but ya know what someone else is gonna have a faster one whether they have lots of $$$ or there tuning skills are far superior to mine,and it doesn't bother me one bit.I do this sport for one reason and thats cause i love it and it keeps me sane and i don't think you can put a price on your sanity.Some people may be more arrogant with there opinions than others but hey to each there own.The one thing i can say about ski-doo is when they do bring something new out it normally sets the bar for the industry to step up to and i'm sure there new mach will be just this.Right now i own a zx chasis sled and for now it suits my particular riding style and requirements just fine but remember ya always should try and keep an open mind bout things because it normally results in you learning something ya didn't know before.Anyways enough rambling and remember think snow. http://www.snowmobileworld.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif
Wow, this is a lot of fun. *I'm enjoying a good argument. *When the leaning to turn comment was originally stated I don't really remember where or who said it but they sounded to me like they just sit back and lean and the sled automatically turns in the twisties. *If that is indeed what you meant than I will still disagree with you. *It's not a mx bike that just takes a small amount of weight change and your going around a corner. *Unless you guys are removing your swaybars then I might believe that it takes a bit of leaning but the last time I rode I remember turning into a corner and throwing weight around but it just doesn't take *a different weight distribution to corner a sled. *I'd love to see a new serious triple from ski-doo and I mean serious, don't read me a brochure like most you guys seem to be trying to do. *At least my explanations usually have examples and my experiences.
11-16-2001, 06:38 PM
i have heard that bombardier(skidoo) part of it has a whole new line up for 2003 new chasis and all ? i guess we will see huh!!!!!!! triples rock! http://www.snowmobileworld.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif
11-17-2001, 07:38 AM
it would be nice for skidoo to release a new tripple but i dont see them targeting it as an aggressive trail machine, skidoo has never been one to worry about weight(on their tripples) so why would they now, but hey if they do then thats great and i bet they sell a lot of sleds. i would have to say yamaha has done a real good job keeping the triple market alive with their viper and srx. and i hope skidoo follows up with something along those lines.
11-18-2001, 05:58 PM
I think skidoo is going to come up with somthing. *They will come out with one hell of a machine. *It will be a 900 cc engine tripple in a chassie that sort of resembles the ZX but with lower ground clearence and more reclinded seating.
11-18-2001, 06:25 PM
Well i guess i can't ride a sled. Because i lean on it when turning hahahaha.
11-19-2001, 08:29 AM
Now that i think about it. *Not makeing a tripple would just through a lot of customers at Yamaha, Cat and polaris. *I just wish i knew why twins are so popular with the manufactors. *Sure they weigh less but a heavy rider on a twin makes up for a light rider on a tripple its close. *I gained some respect for yamaha how they stuck to the better engine not just the one that weight less. *I hope skidoo comes through. *They have in the past!
11-19-2001, 12:22 PM
It's cheaper to build a twin!
11-19-2001, 12:32 PM
This topic just keeps goin and i tink it has more replies than the whole yamaha forum lol. http://www.snowmobileworld.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif
11-19-2001, 12:47 PM
What does that tell you z800? Much interest in the Mighty Mach! *:)
11-19-2001, 12:58 PM
I've owned alot of doos over the years but not yet a mach z
and i can see why people love em and i've ridden enough of them to know why.We'll all just have to wait and see what valcourt unleashes as there next big dog. http://www.snowmobileworld.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif
Insted of putting those twins in nearly every bombardier sled, why don't they put tripples. So what if they are a few pounds more, the power of a 800 or better yet 900 tripple would more than compensate for the little extra weight. They should redesign their sleds to make 4 similar chassis, one really low profile to have good traction, one comparable to the ZX chassis to take on bumps, one for 2-up (I'm not that interested in it but someone might) and one for powder although it's hard to improve on summits. Better yet, they should invent a sled with telescopic radial arms so you can change ski stance when you wish and something similar to adjust suspension height and rate and track lenght adjusters. Lets not forget something to change gears from high speed mode to I can pull an 18 wheeler torque mode then you'd only need 1 sled *:p * Sorry, might of been carried away just a tad http://www.snowmobileworld.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif
11-19-2001, 05:45 PM
Just a tad bit carried away AC.
I got a question. *I think the mach 800 2001 is a reed valve engine. *But is it built like a series 3 engine. *With niscial cylinder linings. *Please let me now if the 800 mach tripple is the same as the 800 twin differs.
11-19-2001, 08:51 PM
Im not sure how they compair to the twin engines. *I would be curious if anyone knows also.
11-20-2001, 03:01 PM
Yes, it's a reed valve engine with nicasil lining.
11-21-2001, 12:26 PM
Why wouldn't they keep them??
Text Deleted: User 'ETS' banned for posting offensive messages after being warned...
11-21-2001, 05:00 PM
That is an AWESOME looking Mach! *
11-21-2001, 05:47 PM
Back to the engine question, the tripple is a case reed and the twins are cly reed.
11-21-2001, 07:14 PM
Now i cant wait for winter. *All I want to do is drive. *I pulled the Mach out of the corner of the garage. *It started first pull with a lot of smoke cus of the fogging oil. *But its ready. *I just got about 15cm of snow 30min north of me. * http://www.snowmobileworld.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif
I cant belive how this topic took of. *I wonder if bombardier has looked at it yet. *I wonder what they said when they saw it. *They probably made a phone call and got some sort of 2003 MachZ 1400cc built. *That can do a 1 G turn and top out at 250km. *With stronger handwarmers.
11-21-2001, 07:18 PM
I can only wish![CODE]
11-21-2001, 09:07 PM
Tell Bombardier to Put me down for one of those! *Where do I send the Check! * *Come on Doo, Don't let us down..
11-22-2001, 01:32 AM
You can bet everyone on this post would buy one one way or another. *:D * I would even thik of selling the 5.0 convertable http://www.snowmobileworld.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif *Well may be not. *Its time Bombardier, Its time!
11-22-2001, 07:09 AM
would that new mach 1400 come with an airocharger by any chance *:0 *now that would be sweet http://www.snowmobileworld.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif
11-22-2001, 11:10 AM
Sorry jeepster no aerocharger, just a parachute. hahahaha *:D * *:D * http://www.snowmobileworld.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif
11-22-2001, 11:19 AM
Text Deleted: Previous warnings to user 'rotaxtriple' obviously ignored. User banned.
11-22-2001, 01:49 PM
Yeah every one, can you say aXX hole? *what's with this guy?
Theres one born every minute!
11-22-2001, 03:15 PM
He must be looking for friends now that his buddy was booted off!
Rotaxtripple, Sometimes it's not the sled that doesn't perform well, it can also be the driver. My cousin won an agility race with a beaten up everest 444 against mxz 800, mach z's, zr's and a bunch of other sleds because they weren't good drivers, not because their sleds weren't good. If you can't even go in a straight line then maybe sledding isn't your sport.
11-22-2001, 04:12 PM
Yeah man. *Stick to driving shoping carts.
11-23-2001, 05:14 PM
Shopping cart????? Do you lean on those to steer them??? hahahaha
11-25-2001, 09:21 PM
I ment it for rotaxtripple and the late ETS.
They need to make something other than mxz's nothing wrong with them but it is not some poeples idea of a sled. *Do any of you think that skidoo does not want to put a new triple out in the same or new chassie beacase they are trying to get all the money posible out the current set up and they are scared that all the money they spent in r&d in twin would go down the drain suck out the most cash from the current set untill no longer competive and then go on to *new one. *THey were switching a changeing chassie lots i would say more than the other manufactures. *In my mind they need to get on top of both markets
11-26-2001, 07:33 AM
Well said. *I dont know why they worry so much about the twin going down if theres a tripple. *Who cares. *Theres room for both. *I just think that they lost about 15% of dooers to yamaha for there srx. *Lot of money there. *Those are the guys that buy big.
i don't think Yamaha is going to sway the market into triples. *you need a small triple to do it and a big one not one in between a big and small engine start off with a 600 triple and maybe have a 850 for the bigger one not all want the bad triple arould but one with some power that runs smoth and pulls hard. *I think it will be Polaris ar Skidoo that will do it if they ever do. *Who ever does it first the other will be hot on its tail *I don't like the old polaris triples but wow they made the compition make some good sled because of ther XLT's ultra's and storms and XCR's. i own a Formula 111 700 and i'm not selling it any time soon
11-27-2001, 08:04 PM
ANYONE SEE THE NEW VIDEO. *
Go to skidoos web sight. *www.ski-doo.com and build the machz tech plus. *When your done you will see a video option. *Watch it. *Its sweet.
11-29-2001, 07:40 AM
They even have the skidoo ride video song up.
11-30-2001, 04:52 PM
Hi Ski-Doo men
* * * * * * * * * *for me a 800 * or *900 cc engine with one pipe with a
Zx *chassis woulb be the best to do! *If Ski-Doo do the same kind of set up than the Viper on this engine it will be unbeateble on lake and on trail.Multi-pipe engine are very heavy and more fuel eater!!
* * * * * * * * * * * *Bye * Z36Qc :0
11-30-2001, 06:08 PM
TO ME THE MACH Z SHOULD GROW TO 1000CC AND STAY A TRIPPLE TRIPPLE. THAT WOULD REALLY MAKE THE THUNDERCATS RUN AND HIDE MORE THAN NOW. THEN I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A 900-950CC SINGLE PIPE DFI LEGEND & THE SAME ENGINE IN MXZ W/CARBS. HOWS THAT SOUND.
12-02-2001, 12:59 AM
I have a 99 F-3 800 (mach Z wanna be) , But out came the single pipe *and in went JAW'S pipes and porting, and some other goodies. Also a widening kit new shocks (c-46) in the back, and a sc-10 coupler. Now I have a faster Mach Z and better handling. Instead of spending the extra grand for a Mach, got the F-3 *and spent a little more and got an improved Mach. Should they get rid of the mach?... No way just improve it just like anything else. There is still a market for these sleds. Bombardier can do what we all do improve!!! :0
12-02-2001, 11:50 AM
Those form3 800's were a great sled.Guess we'll all have to wait and see what they bring out next.
12-02-2001, 09:02 PM
Im suprized they stoped making the F3. *Its almost the same as the mach. *They should have kept them.
12-06-2001, 02:50 PM
If anyone finds a picture of the new mach you have to post it. *
I just heard from a friend that works at bombardier that this new mach is being kept a big secret. *Even more the any MXZ. *I can tell you one thing. *THeres going to be one hell of a commercial for this sled.
what Id like to see DOO do is build a new triple triple
cylinder reed motor, give it the stroke-bore from the
twin 800 for 1200cc and do the same with the stroke-bore
from the 700 twin for 1050cc drop it in light weight chassis
in the 510lbs or under,would not be to expensive to do for
them they already have most of the parts in stock,the would
just need to cast a base,lengthen the crank,phase it at 120
degrees should not be to complicated. or even better yet build
a twin rotary valve triple with the carbs facing the front so they can set the engine back and low in the chassis ,
have the exhaust come out over the carbs on the same side
as the carbs,drop that in the new A-ARM CHASSIS and hang
on,they could keep this one in the 1000cc and make the same
horsepower as the 1200cc cyl.reed motor because of the rotary valves, again it would be pretty easy,use 670 crank
shaft parts,670 cyls.,670ho pistons,machz ign.,all they need
is to cast a base and cylinder head.
12-12-2001, 04:20 PM
I like your thinking. * However im starting to dought this whole new mach z. *The magazines are so sure 2003 is the last year.
12-12-2001, 08:05 PM
when they do build a new mach i am sure it will be called the machzzzz2. http://www.snowmobileworld.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif
also i know it will have a cn tower on it in honour of the worlds most famous machz torontonian.
12-12-2001, 09:06 PM
Well said, MachZ *I had a 98 Z and wanted to replace this year and I am so dissapointed in Bombardier with what they have done with the Z there flagship sled.....Nothing! come on Skidoo, now I have a * renegade 800
12-19-2001, 11:56 AM
Paul i like the CN tower idea but i would just settle for a MachZ with an 800 with A arms and better handling chassie. *
They need to make a mach that can corner. *Lake running is a plus. *If they want to jam a 1000cc in there go ahead. *They should also make a 600 triple engine to put in this new mach. *That would open it up to a lot of other buyers that dont like the 800 + power. *
Come on skidoo. *DOO IT.
12-19-2001, 12:38 PM
i was just at the dealer here and he said his dealer factory operations manager knows same as the rest of his colleages do that they do need the big power sled. big power is just in a lull right now but as always will be back in the talk because it is the cheapest form of racing.
12-19-2001, 12:44 PM
I never really thought of it like that. *Big power sleds in a lul. *Right now snowcross is all that and a bag of chips. *Well that gave me some hope i guess theres no point in talking about it well see when it gets here.
01-07-2002, 05:03 PM
Does anyone have any idea when this lul is going to end. *
I would love to see more drag racing events and serious ones with factory teams.
01-17-2002, 04:45 AM
"any way I wonder how the mach holds against the sumit whith the same size track??"
Dead thread, kinda, but I had to throw my two dollars in. The triple rocks. The 98 FIII 700 was my first sled, and I loved that sled. I never rode much trails, though. For the nay-sayers that don't believe it's a good cross country sled- I disagree. Most of my miles were spent ditch banging, with an occasional lake run. Most of the miles, right along Hwy 65, in MN. I hated riding the trails, because most of them around me seemed too slow.
I crashed it a few years ago, and have been really, really slow at getting it back together. But, I'm going to find out how the CK3 is at mountains. Currently in pieces, because I made the mistake of buying a CK3 tunnel to replace the one that got trashed, and I don't want a black or purple tunnel. Was hoping to get it plastic bead blasted, but not looking good. Will probably have to start stripping it by hand, if I ever want to get it back together.
Did a chaincase roll on it, and should be able to get a 144x2 in it no problem. Could probably go 151/156, but don't have a track. http://www.snowmobileworld.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I never thought this sled handled that bad, and really don't think it's far off from the ZX chassis. But in stock form, it was and is a bit too heavy. They (the factory) really didn't try too hard at making this a light sled. For instance, they used the old driveshaft/wheel assy. The ZX piece is lighter. Smaller shaft. They used a lot of metal. Granted, the triple is gonna weigh more, but they could lighten up this sled, if they wanted to. The stock exhaust on the '98's is nothing more than a boat anchor. I haven't looked at the newer ones, but the first item to go on mine was the suitcase. Too heavy. Triple pipes, for sure, on the lake racers. But get aftermarket. I kept the stock single pipe.
Look at the stock HP numbers for these engines. Do a little case/cyl porting, and these things scream. I was sad to see they dropped the FIII line, but if they keep the Mach's, that's kewl. IMO, the 700 twin is their best engine out of the series III. But if they drop the triples, that would be sad.
I figure if a guy can get 30-40 pounds off the sled, it should be a great ride. Drop the stock exhaust, lose some of that metal under the hood, lighten up on the suspension, and this should be a great sled.
01-17-2002, 07:39 AM
Good luck to you in fixing your sled.
I agree with every point you made. *The triples rock and arent as handycaped as everyone says they are. *Most people walked in the showroom looking for a sled and saw the MXZ because the dealer shoved it in there face. *They forgot about the mach and the ones that know about the mach have there heads filled up with all the crap the magazines say about it. *
But time and time again on this forum someone gets a ride on one and cant belive it.
01-17-2002, 07:52 AM
All I can say is, until you've ridden the triple, you don't know what you're missing. Man- I can't wait to get it fired up again!
01-30-2002, 07:53 AM
And until you have ridden a triple you cant say anything bad about them!
New Mach in a ZX. *Maybe thats what we need to save the triples. *
My guess is that anyone who wanted an AC triple but doesnt want yammys 4 stroke will probably grab the Mach.
01-30-2002, 07:55 AM
By the way. *When is the accual date that lets us know what skidoo is going to have for sure. *Is it Feb 1st.
01-30-2002, 09:02 AM
Just caught up with the chassis debate post. Count me in as one of the pro f-2000 vs ck-3.
My 95 mach-1 with m-10 and flex skis is heaven to me. Vastly different than stock (of course) and very little ski lift. I plan on a widening kit and an m-10 for my 97 mach z.
I only have ridden two ck3 tripples: a 1998 f-111, and a 1999 f-111 700. They do seem to be a bit tippier in the corners, but they steer easier than my f-chassis.
As far as relatively stock sleds on an open lake, i don't mean to toot my own horn, but the 1997 mach z was the fastest, strongest z ever produced. (detuned somewhat in 1998-up.)
02-11-2002, 08:11 PM
Well as most of us know skidoo will be releasing its 2003s on the 18 (I think.) *I guess this is when we find out if it will ever become possible to buy a triple sled again.
Sure there are other triples out there. *But none will ever compair to the fire breathing rotax triples. *The noise, The power, *The scream that they made as they passed you with the three pipes sticking out the bottom in a row. *By far the 800 rotax is the most aggressive triple made. *With its rumble and mean sounding idle you know it only means power. *Its not muted like polaris triple, *It doesnt have the smoothness at idle like the cats tripple, and it doesnt have the high tech systems like yamahas. *But is has one thing none of them have (intimidation). *
For those who have never driven one let me try and explain. *
At idle its not that smooth. *It sounds and feels like a v8 with a lumpy cam with advanced timing. *Not a rumble more like a crackle. *But the moment you start applying throttle and near the engagment speed it feels like the lul before the storm. *All of a sudden the rough idle disappears and your into the acceleration stage. *You can feel the engine strain giving it, its all. *You can almost feel the drive belt slipping under the power. *And then you get to the higher rpms 6500 +. *The engine is smooth and super responsive. *It sounds like nothing else. *
Then when your sitting there on the lake crusing at 80 km and you put the throttle to the bar in less then 3 second your doing 140. *One second after then 160 then one second after that 170 then in three seconds 180 then in 6 seconds 190 and then about 10 seconds after that 200 and then it just slowly keeps pulling till its giving all its got. *Then you take your hand of the throttle and start applying brake but at those speeds the brake is almost useless. *This is just in its stock form. *Once you start putting aftermarket stuff on it, it gets addictive. *Every thing you put on this engine craves and goes faster harder. *Before you know it you have built your self one hell of a machine. *
One day im going to loose a piston or somthing. *Then im going to go really big. *Big bore kit and turbo. *
But the Mach isnt all about speed. *It has a great ride and does corner. *Throw the persision skis on it and its right up there with the zx. *Though in the zx with persision skis and you have your self a monster. *A monster that still gets ok fuel economy. *
Is it the end or the begining. *
We will all find out on the 18th. *Im praying...
06-14-2002, 06:58 PM
Well i guess its back for good now with its custom flames look. *
Does anyone think we will see it next year out of the CK3 and into a ZX or Rev chassie. *
I must have sent skidoo a email every second day to make sure they came out for one in 2003. *I dont know if i have the energy to do it again. *I might have to pass the responcability of keeping the mach right where we want it. *On the showroom floors.
06-14-2002, 07:04 PM
By the way. *Did anyone see that awsome video that doo made for the mach. *WIth the jet engine noise at the start. *And that ultra fast drive by. *I watched that about 300 times. http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
06-14-2002, 07:17 PM
machzzzz1 i would love to see the mach come out in a ZX Chassis, im not buying another sled until the mach comes out in a zx. *So i guess i better take it easy on my mxz because it could be a while. http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
06-14-2002, 07:37 PM
Doo as I'm Dooing and pput a 809 in a zx chassis. Motors are going for $1,000-2,500 with custom pipes. I'm finding 2002 mxz 500 sleds going for $3,100 - 3,700. Sell the 500 motor and you'll hae a ZX chassis for $3,000 or less. I'll be posting more on my creation as the details get worked out.
06-14-2002, 07:56 PM
sled dogg check out ebay there is a 02 mxz 380 for sale there now with a buy it now price of $2800 u.s, but its in albany so i dont know how far that is from u.
06-14-2002, 08:29 PM
I'm going to get a mxz500 do to the fact i can sell the engine much easier and it has better suspension, and other things. Atleast i don't think the mxz 380 is the same sled as the mxz 500 besides the motor.
06-14-2002, 09:29 PM
yea actually the mxz380 just has the sc 10 rear suspension where as the trail packages and up have the sc 10 III which is a more solid setup.
08-25-2002, 10:08 PM
From the time I first posted this topic I have hassled SKIDOO into bringing a ZX mach or atleast keep the Mach Z Ck3.
I must have sent them at least 20 emails. *Each of them answered back with a great reply.
After talking to them and watching them bring the CK3 back into production for 2003 these are my two educated guesses and senarios for 2004.
1. The CK3 is DEAD, with the Rev out and the ZX still packing a lot of potential i think it is very possible to have a ZX Mach Z with the 809 triple. *I dont think it will be SDI because tuners and SDI dont mix. * I also think the weight will be close to the 800 twin and performance will surpass all current sleds.
2. This one is a little bit grim. *Since Arctic Cat dropped the T-cat, at least one guy at skidoo must have wondered if maybe a few cat guys would buy a Mach Z instead of the 900 twin cat was offering. * Maybe the only reason the Mach Z is still here is to try and grab some pissed off t-cat owners. *Then in 2004 or 05 they will drop the triple and continue with the REV, ZX and maybe somthing else with twin or 4 stroke power.
I would put money on #1. *Skidoo over the years has not abandoned its followers, *Even with the MXZ ZX they still kept it around for people that didnt want the Rev pushed on them. *THere is a big market for triples in parts of canada where trails are like major highways in width. *
THE TRIPLES WILL BE BACK (In style) *
I HOPE. http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sarcasm.gif
08-25-2002, 10:17 PM
Well i'll have a ZX machZX this season! He He http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif *The ole project is coming to frutation nicely man. Ski-Doo will DOO right by all of you die hards. The machZ has way to big of a following and they know ALOT of doo guys will buy a RX-1 the second season it's out if it lives up to it's name. And the 3x3 will hit with a punch of a 2x4 LOL.
09-10-2002, 08:23 AM
Sled Dogg. *Winters coming and I have heard no further progress with your ZXMach. *
Hows it going. *
Oh and i saw the chassie you bought the amsoil one. *Are you going to take the decals of and get Mach Z flame ones?
Keep us posted.
09-10-2002, 09:08 AM
OK, *I just wanted to be the 200th post on this topic! http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
09-10-2002, 03:36 PM
LOL@Tim! It's comeing along Martin. I'm picking up the chassis in the next week or two. I'll have the motor next week after tuesday. Once it starts arriving I'll post pics as i go or start a web page. I'm going to do a detailed description of everything for those that are thinking of doing this. I'll keep a tab of ALL expenses also. I'll send DOO a link He HE!!
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MightyMach @ Oct. 30, 2001, 11:58am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This is what I call jumping, it may differ from others. *There's a spot up in Michigans UP on the west side where these power lines go for miles. *Up and down, large sweeping hills. *We all take turns being the leader. The lead rider will crest the hill and look for on coming traffic, if he gives a thumbs up, we hammer it. *Talk about catching air! *Of all the sleds that I have ever owned, my ck-3 flies perfectly.[/b][/quote]
*I agree about jumping the Mach Z. I have caught some hugh air on mine.. Here is a pic of me about to liftoff.. My buddy F_cked up and took the pic too soon :o(
09-17-2002, 07:27 AM
Nice pic. *
The Mach can be jumped but you have to watch out for the landing. *The front end is really not designed to come crashing down, if you land with the rear first and its a relitivly smooth jump everything will be fine.
I agree http://www.snowmobileworld-s2.com/forums/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif *I actually had the nose too high. Usually she flies nice and level.. I am thinking about building a MXZx with an 809 triple like sled dog.
09-18-2002, 11:06 AM
I cant belive skidoo would rather us riders build our own triple zx then to have them sell it to us directly. *
Some one in Bombardier Customer Research needs to be fired..
09-18-2002, 11:06 AM
And i would happly take his job.
11-25-2002, 02:55 PM
Im Re opening the MachZ bible.
I belive that this year more then last, most skidooers are looking to the Mach to defend there bragging rights. I new this would happen right from day one. (Go read the first post.) Last year it was run of the mill racing, But this year we got the RX-1, The F7, the always fast polaris's including the XCR. I think that so far the F7 (when running) has proven itself to be faster then the MXZ REV even the 800. The RX-1 is still a bit of a long shot but there is promise for it to be fast.
So all of a sudden skidooers dont care about snowcross results, Once again its about point A to B. And who do they look to. THATs Right the 809 powered Mach Z. The proof is in the number of posts that sound like (**** Vs. MachZ). But wait the Mach is a old dinosore built back in 98. And triples are dead. Sure they are. Maybe this is the kick skidoo needs to start building a 04 Z triple.
Well the results are starting to come in and it sounds like we still have the edge this year. But if they drop the Mach for next year we will be racing the competition brand new production sleds with our relics.
So your support for the Z by emailing skidoo as many times as you can. Dont let our flagship die.
Just like Zman said, it was the skidoo triples that made skidoo what they are today. It saved our reputation and filled the winners circles at almost every race.
Most of us are just avrage riders (like me) that dont really care about racing, But its nice to know that your brand or even your sled can fit in with the big boys.
That brings me back to my first point. Is snowcross really that importent for a brand. I say No. Snowcross is half machine half driver. The machine has to take it and the driver has to make it. In drags or trail racing its all machine. And if yours cant cut it, it doesnt matter how many snowx races you win. Your still going to be a loser when it comes to talking to friends and owners of other brands.
In my opinion this sled is the most dangerous thing on the lakes and desirves not just more credit, but alot more from the manufactor, Mags, and other riders that think it is outdated and its time has passed.
Lets here some stories about you with your 809 Mach.
And lets do our best to get a 04 Z in some of our garages.
11-25-2002, 04:10 PM
I have not read all of the posts on this particular topic, all I know is that its about what should be done with the mach and this is what I have to say...A-arm front suspension, a chassis with an upper cross-member like the REV (But does not sit like the REV), a DFI motor, and a whole new look to reel the consumers back into the triple market (where more of them should be).
Both of you are right.
We need to show our support.
11-25-2002, 09:36 PM
man would i love to see a new sleak model with the 809 in her. mabe with a arms and with enough travel but more importantly straight away power that the mach is well known for. just a little more future look but still the sit back and hang on style if u know what i meen. not interested in the new wave of stand up models. but to let the 809 die would be ............hmmm lets say a not very good move. if something like this would come out sign me up
11-26-2002, 03:30 AM
I don't mind the chassis- just slap a factory turbo on for '04.
11-26-2002, 10:09 AM
LOL. Factory Turbo.
11-26-2002, 01:00 PM
i vote for the triple/triple in the zx chassis. come on bombi, i know u r watching!!!!
11-26-2002, 01:04 PM
Dont kid yourself. I know that people from bombardier come to this site. They have quoted me in a few letters from stuff they read from this site.
Your right there listening. And they better reinforce the glass doors on the entrance to there valcort office if they cancle the mach, cuz thats what ill be driving thru.
11-26-2002, 06:36 PM
I agree guys. The mach should stay! When they cancelled the mach1 my heart fell to the floor. I couldn't believe that bombardier did that. If they decide to cancel the mach they WILL here about it and ill be the first one to send them a letter, email and personal visit!
11-26-2002, 09:04 PM
I ride a Summit, and love it, but I also long for the wail of the three-cylinders. I think Ski-doo should think about baby-boomers. I'm in the mid-forties and still get around the mountains and pretty much scare the chit of of myself at least once or twice a year. But I'm thinking I would really like to own a big triple from Ski-doo some day because I also like to ride fast trails, lakes and logging/ roads, there are lots of miles to ride in BC.
Also, if not for the Mighty Mach Z, Ski-doo wouldn't have dominated the mod classes at Haydays, and just seeing ski-doo, ski-doo, ski-doo, ski-doo, etc, etc, . . . sweeping class after class, warms the ####les of my heart.
Here's what I'd do with it:
--Up the size to 950, it just sounds cool and will need to be bigger to stay way ahead of the bigger and bigger twins. It's nickname would "nine-five." Make it 2-Tech, I've heard the 800 twin is super smooth and powerful.
I'd put a single pipe on it so that the hood and bellypan area doesn't have to be too large, and you'd have a less fussy sled with great bottom and mid-range, and it would still be wickedly-fast wide open, and it would still sound great. Let the guys that want triple-pipes go to the aftermarket folks.
I'd put it in a variation of the MXZ-X chassis, and make it stealth black with some way-cool accents. That way, being a "MACH" it will arrive before you hear it and before you see it.
Standard 136 in. track for better traction with oversize wheels and non-slip drivers to lessen rolling resistance.
Precision skis, of course, A-arms, possibly.
Make it as light as possible while still retaining strength.
Include a GPS pod and power port. They need to stay warm and you need to see it at anytime to see how fast you really are going. Comparing your real-time GPS speed to your Speedo might show you how much your track is slipping.
And a cup holder and who could resist. LOL
This isn't much new engineering as Ski-doo already has most of the components, so they should be able to have mine ready by Jan. 15 or so.
11-26-2002, 09:22 PM
Thats the big kicker. Its not like were asking skidoo to build us a reusable space vehical. All were asking them to do is throw together what they already have and in turn save them money becasue they would stop building the CK3 chassie.
I like the idea of a 950 calling it the 9 5 but Im ok with the 800. Besides insurance would freek. 800 2tech SDI triple, but have the motor a little more highly tuned to make 170Hp.
One key thing which it would have with SDI is a detonation sensor. This is key to a machines performance.
Put it in the ZX chassie and incorporate a upper support frame that goes over the engine like the REV except not as high. Use A arm front suspention and give the sled the same front ground clearance as current MXZ's.
And stay with the triple pipes, but have them exit right out the side three in a row like the nascar style.
11-26-2002, 09:37 PM
I think bombi should come out with a bigger tripple, maybe a 950 or 1000 with sdi and all that good stuff and put it in the zx chassi. JMO :D :inlove:
11-26-2002, 11:47 PM
Ok, maybe the factory turbo won't be happening, but surely, just as well, it won't be going into the zx chassis. It wasn't designed for that motor. They would have to do another one.
Is there a good reason to? The CK3 and the ZX chassis really aren't all that much different, believe it or not. What they could and should do is find a way to lose some wieght off of what they have. Or, come up with yet another triple platform. Taking the triple pipes off wouldn't be good, unless they are sure to do well in stock classes with the single.
And a 925 or 950 or 9-something could easily be done. If they move into more advanced engine management, I would hope they do it right- take into account more variables and put them to use. An injection system of some kind would be great, provided they don't hose it up like they have with the flat slides.
I can't imagine them dumping the triples. Clearly, it can be a power house. It would be a mistake if they did. A dumb one at that.
11-27-2002, 12:02 AM
Id like to see the Mach Z return in a zx or rev like chassis weighing in about 50-75lbs less than the current Mach and handling like the current zx MXZs do.
Now that would be sweet.
11-27-2002, 09:13 AM
Yup. If they made the Mach a corner to corner sled like the ZX is now. Man would there be some ### kicking going on.
Once that 809 is wound up theres now stoping it.
11-27-2002, 09:37 AM
I HAVE OWNED 8 BOMBARDIER SNOWMOBILES ,THE LAST TWO HAVE BEEN TRIPLES ,THEY ARE AWESOME....NOW I OWN A 800 TWIN...IT DOESNT HAVE THE POWER THAT THE TRIPLES HAVE AND NEVER WILL...I AM PLANNING TO BUY A NEW TRIPLE NEXT YEAR ,IF SKI-DOO CANT SUPPLY I WILL LOOK ELSE WERE,NOT NICE TO SAY BUT I WANT A NEW TRIPLE........HOPEFULLY A 800 TRIPLE IN A MXZ BODY....WHAT DO YOU THINK ? ?
11-27-2002, 10:10 AM
I know where your comming from. THe 800 twins make great low end torque and power but anything over 50km and its not even close.
Plus the triples have other benifits besides power. Benifits which i like when trail riding. There smooth, sound cool, rev fast, get better milage, Dont run as high rpms when crusing, and are not working when on lakes. You can cruse doing 140km with the Mach and not even work the engine.
I think there is a 25% chance of seeing the Mach in a Zx, a 50% Chance of seeing it comeback in CK3, and a 25% Chance of it being gone for good.
If they get rid of the mach, I hope they still sell the 809 as a creat engine. Or make a conversion kit for the ZX and have it as spring order. Somthing to keep the triple triple going.
Come on skidoo...
12-01-2002, 12:28 AM
Well no one get pissed because he asked but I think it should be dumped from the skidoo lineup. I don't think the triple triple 800 should be but the current mach, definitely.
12-01-2002, 09:23 AM
Give me a 950 triple\triple in a ZX chassis with 170+ HP in reliable form and I will sell both my HO's to get one. On the other hand we could build our own. I have seen a couple of 98 MXZX 440's with 809's and custom pipes that just flat out rip. Believe it or not some of that extra weight spread out up front helps these olds sleds to corner as flat as a ZX.
I agree dont let the 809 die.
12-01-2002, 10:11 AM
I think that bomber should tweek the current 809 motor up to around 170-180hp. The way the factories are going with the bigger twins the Mach Z will need to have more power in order to keep her rep as the dominate lakeracer. It would be a shame if bomber dropped the MACH, she diserves to live on and rule the lakes.
Please Bombardier, don't give in to the magazine guy's there are still alot of us top end guru's that want to see the MACHZ live on for many years to come.
12-11-2002, 05:09 PM
2004 will be the year of the new triple 900cc....i can here it idleing in my garage now....triple ,triple triple, i realy like the sound of that............ :D
12-13-2002, 02:08 AM
Nothing sounds better than a healthy triple. It will probably not make the status of lightest sled, but who cares when you're blowing by the twins? I'd crap if someone could get an honest 180hp out of an 800 twin, and keep it alive.
02-06-2003, 02:20 PM
We need to get some more letter off to Bombardier. If you already sent them send them again. We have to help the Mach out.
02-06-2003, 06:54 PM
The shear number of views of this thread says something for Mach!
It should continue to evolve to meet the comsumers needs.
If it is discontinued, they will surely be sought after in twenty years.
I don't think it will die, I seen less and less since 97 but from 01 to now they have gottin really popular again. We were up in Dorset and I must have seen a hundred of them flying around, all current models. As far as it needing work to beat the big twins, I witnessed a 01 mach z kill a mxzx800 in a 1000 foot stretch. The mxzx 800 got ahead at first but the mach z soon showed hhim who was boss! I just wishh they would have kept the mach 1 aswell I have a 99 mach 1 and will NEVER sell it I love it it is heavier but it rocks! I run right with my buddys machh z and I just adjusted my clutches and carbs.
02-06-2003, 07:54 PM
New chassis and .57% more power........ Bring it on!!
I luv my 2000 Z.
02-07-2003, 08:32 AM
good luck,you'll need it................looks like the rev is taking over. :(
its a deiing breed of triples unfortunetly......just like the zrt's and xcr's ???
02-07-2003, 01:08 PM
There is no 900 triple triple coming, mark my words. The machz will be gone and the muscle is coming from a 1000 twin direct injection. My sorce is way to good and has never givin me wrong infro before, if he wasn't sure he wouldn't have told me anything.
March 2 this will be confirmed. The demand for the machz's in the northern ontario area is way down cause so far there is only one /03 machz here and littered with revs to many to count.
Don't get me wrong I loved that sled aswell, had a formula 3 800 with jaws pipes and porting. But there demand is way down, I know there are alot of members here supporting the mach but obviously not enough to keep it going.
11-26-2003, 12:28 PM
I have an 00' MachZ it Rocks!!!! Its my first sled, wife has a 00'700mxz. The new REVS are cool looking but nothing beats that scary fast feeling from the Mach. The mach is head and shoulders above my MXZ700. And it eats up my buddies 02'800 mxz adren. He hates it.... I play with him when we ride... 3/4 throttle we run about even then I nail it and I just walk away.... My Mach is bone stock and his adren is piped and clutched.....