This is but another sad reminder of Al Gore's totally credible claims of "Global Warming". I know he has absolutly no way of knowing if this is just the Earth abound in her normal cycle. I know he can't read the furure, or explain his own massive "carbon footprint", nor can he explain how humans, as insignificant as we are, could be so influential to the Global environment after only 100 years or industrialization (or as I like to call it...1/1,000,000,000th of a eye blink in global history) and I know he is but one voice among many completely sane and totaly-know-what-they're-talking-about-dude-greenie-types, but I have proof that puts all the arguments to rest. Yes Global Warming is real and its our (read: sledders) fault. I know the vast right wing conspiracy will kill this post when word gets out so spread the word brothers and sisters don't let the man keep us down. Below is a pic that will send the world into a tail spin and give Al the fame he so deeply craves...scroll down if you dare..............................









































































































Behold!!!!!!!!!!!! 05 April 2007................

LOL. Global chaos showing parts of her finest :D

About time someone created a thread for this.

Why are people spending $$$$$$$ on trying to figure out pollution in the air? Parts of our biggest concern is the polution in the water, which has a bigger impact on our climates in the first place. Typically, the more salt the cooler the water stays, the less storms and the cooler over-all our climate stays. Why not find a new source for salt, and dump salt into the oceans to make up for all the fresh water that's entering the oceans from the melting ice caps??? :dazed:

Wow, it snowed in April.. global warming is a myth because of it.. Brilliant! Look past your backyard... I know it's hard to do but you need to look at the EARTH, not that you got a foot of snow in your backyard in April...Educated people do not argue with the fact that global warming exists, that it's a known phenomenon and is based on facts, not political agenda.. Mans part in however, it is still up for debate..

Wow, it snowed in April.. global warming is a myth because of it.. Brilliant! Look past your backyard... I know it's hard to do but you need to look at the EARTH, not that you got a foot of snow in your backyard in April...Educated people do not argue with the fact that global warming exists, that it's a known phenomenon and is based on facts, not political agenda.. Mans part in however, it is still up for debate..[/b]
When I was a kid, it always snowed in April. So the fact that it's currently a rare sight, but still happens, only proves global warming IS real... :crazy:

Let's point out that Bush is completely against finding solutions to global warming. I recently saw that he is trying to impose law that methane be added to regular gas across the US. Well, if people think they can get away with burning regular gas because there's methane in it, they'll burn more of it. Enough to counter the effects of adding methane, in fact. Simply put: methane will boost profitability and cause more gas to burn, increasing global warming, not decreasing it.

If Bush were concerned with global warming, we'd all have the option of burning hydrogen and would find hydrogen pumps at every gas station already... but he's more concerned with oil products and the selling of them, not to help prevent global warming.

Well, that's one conspiracy thought, lol. I could be totally wrong, but that's my opinion on it :crazy:

Like I have stated before, the winter's are shorter and the water in the great lakes is disapperaing at an astonishing rate so whom ever-whatever is responsible please stop!

Make no mistake about it, global warming or not we are killing this planet.

yep, we are killing this planet.. My opinion on how much man is responsible for global warming?.. 99.9%.. All our resources are finite, except the sun..

in april you can get every type weather under the sun

im not supprised were getting snow

in the last 33 years there has only been 1 april were it didnt snow

that s for ontario though

I was just tring to be funny, but if its going to be a soap box I'll get mine set up..............


I don't deny GW just the drible and guilt Al Gore puts out only to have an industrial size existence himself, or the fact that most "cures" are worse than the illness.
Example: Australia is banning light bulbs and adopting compact florecent light bulbs nice idea, but... All of these bulbs are made in China. China has no regulatory commission on polution, at least not one that says what the Gov't doesn't want it to. Production will now ski rocket forcing China to build more or add onto its currant production industry responsible for making these bulbs. China uses coal fired power plants to supply electricity to these plants. Coal, if I'm not mistaken, makes polution.
More production means more power needed (read: equal or more polution...just not in Australia)

Another if you will: Scientists studying Mars determined the temps on Mars have risen in unison with Earth's. Sooooooo the rover is a two stroke? There's been an ongoing secret mission to transport all of our poluted air to Mars? Do Marsians drive American made SUVs?

I agree that GW exists, (believe me no sledhead doesn't) I'm just not so aragant as to believe the insignificance of human existence is the reason.

People got in an uproar once about the teachings of a man who said the Earth is only 6000 years old and it was created for us in six days. I'm a man of God don't get me wrong, but we know this is not the case. (probably the three language translation the poor bible went throgh) People once thought the world was flat and the universe revolved around Earth, the whole world jumped on that band wagon because some elders made good points or an atractive power point presentation or what ever, but we know thats not true either. If you want to believe humans are so powerfull and influential go ahead. I'm not buying it.

Great now I've managed to talk politics and religon w/ my friends.

i see where you coming from..


but theres nothing we can do global warming is a political thing now


i thought the rover was electric

When I was a kid, it always snowed in April. So the fact that it's currently a rare sight, but still happens, only proves global warming IS real... :crazy:

Let's point out that Bush is completely against finding solutions to global warming. I recently saw that he is trying to impose law that methane be added to regular gas across the US. Well, if people think they can get away with burning regular gas because there's methane in it, they'll burn more of it. Enough to counter the effects of adding methane, in fact. Simply put: methane will boost profitability and cause more gas to burn, increasing global warming, not decreasing it.

If Bush were concerned with global warming, we'd all have the option of burning hydrogen and would find hydrogen pumps at every gas station already... but he's more concerned with oil products and the selling of them, not to help prevent global warming.

Well, that's one conspiracy thought, lol. I could be totally wrong, but that's my opinion on it :crazy:[/b]

Don't you mean methanol? Methane is a gas that cows make.

I should have left it alone.. Sorry... I love my two stroke sleds.. I loved two stroke street bikes in the 70's too.. the lightbulb analogy is a good one.. It's like people who are dead set against women wearing furs...O.K. so no-one wears fur, instead? they wear some synthetic polypro/capalene/nylon/whatever that comes from
petroleum, the mining of which destroys entire habitats, ecosystems and
species, not just individual animals..and cotton
is the worst polluter of our streams by the intensive use of pesticides and
fertilizers (both industries owned by the oil companies). The conclusion is that if we exist, then we consume and pollute. PERIOD

Ok. You can't say that all the crap we have done to this planet isn't gonna hurt it in some way.
The first thing you need to understand about global warming is that the water levels will rise. The more the polar caps melt, the more snow the temperate climate regions will get.
Water doesn't go away. The more you use the more that goes back into the ground and gets pumped back out. When ice melts the water level rises.
Oh, by the way, Studies show the polar caps are continuing to grow.

Ok. You can't say that all the crap we have done to this planet isn't gonna hurt it in some way.
The first thing you need to understand about global warming is that the water levels will rise. The more the polar caps melt, the more snow the temperate climate regions will get.
Water doesn't go away. The more you use the more that goes back into the ground and gets pumped back out. When ice melts the water level rises.
Oh, by the way, Studies show the polar caps are continuing to grow.[/b]

I have had waterfront property on the great lakes for over 15 years and it's disappearance is frightful to say the least. Global warming, draining off whatever....it's a devistating impact to the ecosystem that needs to stop.

Man is it's own worst enemy.

Please show me these "studies" that show the polar ice cap is growing...All reputable reports show it to be melting.The polar ice cap as a whole is shrinking. Images from NASA satellites show that the area of permanent ice cover is contracting at a rate of 9 percent each decade.. I would like to see NASA photographic evidence of the ice cap GROWING..

How the polar caps work: When the poles are cold and growing, big chunks break off and float into the surrounding oceans. The important measurement here is height. When temps are up, the chunks don't break off. The overall diameter gets bigger, the height gets lower.
I.E. if big chunks are breaking off, the temps are not high.
If global warming were an issue the lakes would not be low, they would be high.
I'll say it again, The first problem Grobal warming will cause is polar melting which in turn will create rain/snow.

When coastal cities become flooded then you will know glabal warming is a problem.

I meant methanol, LOL.

Coastal cities are flooding, watch the news. When you are talking about lakes though, you are talking about bodies of fresh water above sea level. These water levels are lowering due to water leaving the lake and evoporating faster than water flowing into the lakes. The OCEANS however, are rising currently 2cm per year. If you don't believe me, travel to an ocean beach, not a lake beach. Yes, the oceans are rising. The ice caps are melting, which reduces salinity of the oceans, which also raises the oceans, which in turn warms up the oceans, which in turn results in more storms such as huricane catrina. Man-made? I think not... we've not done enough pollution to equal the solar flares, volcano eruptions, etc. For pollutions to enevitably heat the earth, we'd no longer be able to breath. Yes, lung cancer is up, along with other cancers, and we are all full of toxins, but no where near the large scale of issues we are currently seeing.

Global warming is like dropping a ball, with every warm spell comes a cold snap, with every cold snap comes a warm snap. We can see unusually cold months when it's typically warm, and unusually warm months when it's typically cold... but until the earth no longer is able to rebound, the ball will eventually stop bouncing and come to a rest. Then what? No more rebounding... so what will the temperature of Earth be? We do not know...

Call it global warming or simply global chaos, it's here, we can't stop it, it would still be here if man did not exist... perhaps we ARE here for the purpose of solving it, who knows. Either way, the climate is not what it used to be... we can no longer count on a winter where we can snowmobile at all. Ten years ago even, that was a different story. Whatever is changing is changing fast... there's no way I should be able to notice climate changes in my currently short life, but even I have seen complete changes from when I was a child. Is the earth warming or cooling? I'm not sure! LOL. If the ice caps are growing THAT could also cause sea levels to rise, they need room to expand. Perhaps this IS an iceage, and as the ball drops it's freezing earth and the heat we're experiencing is the earth trying to heal, and not the other way around.

It makes more sense to see global warming causing warm conditions, not an ice age. It's even harder to explain how global warming can result in an ice age. But global chaos sums it up really well: the earth is large enough that a push in one direction results in a rebound in the opposite. Right now we're warming up, what next?

I would also like to point out: since the first popular El Nino in 1996, we started experiencing unusually warm summers. We were told this would last 3 years. It did. Since 1999, our winters have gotten warmer, and our summers have gotten colder. This trend has never ended. Now our summers are not only getting colder, but wetter. We do get warm spells lasting 2 - 3 weeks of unbearable heat, followed by yet another month of cold wet weather. So since roughly 1999, the trend of warm winters cold summers has come about, and this trend has not changed in the last 7 years (next winter being year number 8). Something happened between 1996 and 1999 that messed up our climate, and it hasn't been able to heal itself since.

I don't believe in Global Babble..But one thing is for sure we can't keep on cutting down are forests and polluting are water supplies at the rate we are....Yes the ice caps are melting they are always melting at one time it was all ice ( so it is said)...I live on Lake Superior yes it is the lowest it has been on record, I have seen pictures from 40 some years ago where Superior was almost as low, and it was a green Christmas...I believe that a lot of the water from the Great Lakes is being redirected to help lets say the Mississippi River..Years ago you would always here that ships were having problems navigating with low water levels on the river but now you never here of it but all the main river up here are being dredged to accommodate these ships...Just a very strong rumor being thrown around.....If AL Gore wants to put out some type of movie yo show he cares and to make money good for him...Most scientific research revolves around money...

I don't believe in Global Babble..But one thing is for sure we can't keep on cutting down are forests and polluting are water supplies at the rate we are....Yes the ice caps are melting they are always melting at one time it was all ice ( so it is said)...I live on Lake Superior yes it is the lowest it has been on record, I have seen pictures from 40 some years ago where Superior was almost as low, and it was a green Christmas...I believe that a lot of the water from the Great Lakes is being redirected to help lets say the Mississippi River..Years ago you would always here that ships were having problems navigating with low water levels on the river but now you never here of it but all the main river up here are being dredged to accommodate these ships...Just a very strong rumor being thrown around.....If AL Gore wants to put out some type of movie yo show he cares and to make money good for him...Most scientific research revolves around money...[/b]

Most scientific research does revovle around money... however I've never watched that movie. I only report what I read in books (some ten years old) and what I see in the news or discovery channel. They're usually accurate... at least enough to give reason for some of the speculation, even if there's no evidence to support it. The problem with global warming: by the time there's hard evidence to support it, it's too late.

pepsi fuzz..

:thumbsup:


edit:

oh and the ice caps are growing because of more snow do to warmer weather!

I have had waterfront property on the great lakes for over 15 years and it's disappearance is frightful to say the least. Global warming, draining off whatever....it's a devistating impact to the ecosystem that needs to stop.

Man is it's own worst enemy.[/b]

One only needs to look at Georgian bay to see the crib docks that are 5-6 feet above the water level, coming from a high of +5 feet in 86' many cribs docks are 10-30' back, and high and dry away from the water, but apparantly the lower than normal water level may be the result of improper or badly engineered dredging at the bottom of the St.Clair river. Average normal water levels on Huron/G-Bay are about 1-2 feet higher than today. It seems the St.Clair is self dredging as a result of some old river bed work done back in the 60's which may have removed too much hard river bottom, the result now is a river that is self dredging as the water flows faster caring away more bottom and allowing more water out of Huron/G-bay. So really, the water level may be ****ed for good! The only good thing about lower water on G-bay is the added amount of beautiful beach front

pepsi fuzz..

:thumbsup:
edit:

oh and the ice caps are growing because of more snow do to warmer weather![/b]

:D it's fun to make fun of theories :D

What have I started. At least no one has cursed yet.


I do remember watching something on one of the education channels, TLC, Discovery, History ect., about the caps growing in size, I wish I could refrence it for you. I also saw something recently about the top ten extinction events that could plausibly happen. One said, in so many words, that if the Sun so much as burped we'de vaporize. If the sun grows or changes one iota it would mean galactic distruction. I'd say all politics aside we've done pretty good for the last bazillion years.

Science tells us we've had multiple ice ages and in turn multiple melt offs or "Global Warming". It just makes sense the cycle will continue with or with out us or any miniscule influence we subject. I guess I have to agree we are doing some harm to the planet w/ all the Sub-Divisions in my area, and the chemi spills and fires and factories and on and on, but there also exists vulcanic polution and organic polution in the form of cow farts, vegitation decomp, natural oceaneanic algea and plancton die off, ect. I know it sounds like I just refuse to except blame, but just because the left-of-Kennedy crowd and greenies and all the other lazy jobless protester types lay down in in the street or make pretty signs and cheezy slogans don't mean they're right, regardless of their numbers.

I will admit that if a large percentage of my hobbies were not the target of these groups I may not be as opinionated about the subject, but I also wouldn't have educated myself on it either. Or maybe because something about being in the Military makes me hate hippies....

One only needs to look at Georgian bay to see the crib docks that are 5-6 feet above the water level, coming from a high of +5 feet in 86' many cribs docks are 10-30' back, and high and dry away from the water, but apparantly the lower than normal water level may be the result of improper or badly engineered dredging at the bottom of the St.Clair river. Average normal water levels on Huron/G-Bay are about 1-2 feet higher than today. It seems the St.Clair is self dredging as a result of some old river bed work done back in the 60's which may have removed too much hard river bottom, the result now is a river that is self dredging as the water flows faster caring away more bottom and allowing more water out of Huron/G-bay. So really, the water level may be ****ed for good! The only good thing about lower water on G-bay is the added amount of beautiful beach front[/b]



Oh thats an easy one...if you notice there is a small hole in the lake bottom...it leads to my basement. Your lake is being pumped into my lawn by my sump pump as we speak...no lie. :lookaround:

97% of all statistics are made up on the spot

Ok. You can't say that all the crap we have done to this planet isn't gonna hurt it in some way.
The first thing you need to understand about global warming is that the water levels will rise. The more the polar caps melt, the more snow the temperate climate regions will get.
Water doesn't go away. The more you use the more that goes back into the ground and gets pumped back out. When ice melts the water level rises.
Oh, by the way, Studies show the polar caps are continuing to grow.[/b]
You have to show us that one , from billww. where that even came from

The great lakes 6 or 7 years ago where so high that everyone was losing thier shore lines. In madison Wis we had are lakes posted No wakes , the same year we had more snow then ever recorded in a two month history, We rode the whole state that winter like big dogs. That was no,t the frist time we were able to ride any where in my 20 or more years of sleding , some times it snows and sometimes it won,t.

:withstupid: that's right on brother........

He he, that's no lie! I'd agree that 97% of all statistics are made up right on the spot, so if more than one people agree to it, it must be true... right???

LOL. I have to say, hearing the sun giving a slight fart to kill us would not only be ironic, it would be HILLARIOUS!!! "And man kind was finally destroyed, as the sun let out a tiny fart..." lol. Actually... doesn't the bible say our next death will be of fire??? Or the likes... I dunno. Some people interpreted it as war, but it could be a comet, sun farts, who knows :dazed:

during the last ice age co2 was at a level 10x what it is today

during the last ice age co2 was at a level 10x what it is today[/b]
:huh: Thank you Professor Snofrog :wink: Next time I need helpwith the rainforest underthe kitchen sink I will consult you. :dazed:

:huh: Thank you Professor Snofrog :wink: Next time I need helpwith the rainforest underthe kitchen sink I will consult you. :dazed:[/b]

no problem Dr Drench lol pick up a handfull of valves and I can help... next time

It's great to read all these posts, people with common intests, and different thoughts on things.
But like my grampa used to tell me, and I quote "when it's not about the money, it's about the money ". " We are just ants in a small number of peoples ant farm". Thank God my ant farm has snowmobiles !!!

during the last ice age co2 was at a level 10x what it is today[/b]

and during the last global warming, co2 was 20x what it is today :D

Global Warming is the religion of enviro-fascists. They have all the zeal they need to take over the western world, it's just a matter of waiting for the opportunity.

People who "outed" Gore are threatened. (http://www.shns.com/shns/g_index2.cfm?action=detail&pk=MURDOCK-04-05-07)

While the impact of a significant global warming would impact many people in some catastrophic ways, consider how much more serious would be a global winter. One agriculturally non-productive global summer would spell doom for millions - and the Earth is due according to scientists.

Ok. You can't say that all the crap we have done to this planet isn't gonna hurt it in some way.
The first thing you need to understand about global warming is that the water levels will rise. The more the polar caps melt, the more snow the temperate climate regions will get.
Water doesn't go away. The more you use the more that goes back into the ground and gets pumped back out. When ice melts the water level rises.
Oh, by the way, Studies show the polar caps are continuing to grow.[/b]
You've got to be fricken kidding. Talk about the lack of consensus all you want, but no one is going to swallow that.

Most scientific research does revovle around money... however I've never watched that movie. I only report what I read in books (some ten years old) and what I see in the news or discovery channel. They're usually accurate... at least enough to give reason for some of the speculation, even if there's no evidence to support it. The problem with global warming: by the time there's hard evidence to support it, it's too late.[/b]
You've hit the nail on the head Pepsi. Waiting for every scientist on the planet to agree about global warming before taking action is ridiculous. It will never happen, and I think it's better to play it safe.

You've got to be fricken kidding. Talk about the lack of consensus all you want, but no one is going to swallow that.
You've hit the nail on the head Pepsi. Waiting for every scientist on the planet to agree about global warming before taking action is ridiculous. It will never happen, and I think it's better to play it safe.[/b]

Newfie, Newfie, Newfie. Here you go again repeating what the nice man on CBC tells you every night. You need to learn to think for yourself or you will no longer be able to water-skip or ride anywhere else, with your "evil" 2-stroke snowmobile. So, here I challenge you and the other Global Warming True Believers to answer a few questions about Global Warming:

1. In 2006 climatologists were warning the United States that we would have a Hurricane season like no other. It ended up being a dud. Why were the climatologists so wrong?

2. If weathermen are wrong so often about the weather that will occur within 24 hours, why should we believe their predictions for 10, 20 or 30 years from now? Or 1 year from now?

3. How can you separate the effects of man-made pollution from the effects of Ocean Currents, Solar Flares, and other natural phenomena in causing long or short-term warming of the earth?

4. You frequently like to say things like "the debate is over, global warming is real". When was there ever a debate, and when have you ever permitted a debate? When did Prime Minister Martin ever convene a conference and hear both sides of the issue debated, or when did President Clinton ever commit money to determine whether man is causing global warming or not--with both sides of the matter clearly reported and discussed. All I recall hearing are hysterical news reports saying man-made climate change is "established fact" with the loudest spokesmen being those that have no scientific background ie Al Gore, Bono, etc.

Try to find some answers to these questions before you continue posting your recycled "Everyone believes in man-made Global Warming, the debate is over" arguments.

There is an extremely well-thought out article about man-mad global warming here (http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=034028d4-8a4a-4103-8012-6445ac5ba715). The United Nations and power-hungry politicians like Stephane Dion and Al Gore are maximizing the hysteria about Global Warming for their own benefit. They are scaring people into supporting them, they are not educating people with facts. No politician would do that, would they? The linked article says that the United Nations' report predicts global sea levels to rise by inches, not feet, and that the warming will not be as bad as they predicted in 2001.

If those of you who believe everything you hear from the media have the spine, I invite you to read the article I've linked and comment on it. And--I also invite you to answer the questions I raised in the last post.

The United Nations and power-hungry politicians like Stephane Dion and Al Gore are maximizing the hysteria about Global Warming for their own benefit. They are scaring people into supporting them, they are not educating people with facts. No politician would do that, would they?[/b]

:lmao: Now THAT'S a good point! We all know how "honest" politicians are. If a politician spoke it, it mustn't be true :) Therefore, there is no threat about global warming... a much bigger threat is the sun farting... :) We should start firing dry ice at the sun to prevent it from farting :D j/k.

Newfie, Newfie, Newfie. Here you go again repeating what the nice man on CBC tells you every night. You need to learn to think for yourself or you will no longer be able to water-skip or ride anywhere else, with your "evil" 2-stroke snowmobile. So, here I challenge you and the other Global Warming True Believers to answer a few questions about Global Warming:

1. In 2006 climatologists were warning the United States that we would have a Hurricane season like no other. It ended up being a dud. Why were the climatologists so wrong?

2. If weathermen are wrong so often about the weather that will occur within 24 hours, why should we believe their predictions for 10, 20 or 30 years from now? Or 1 year from now?

3. How can you separate the effects of man-made pollution from the effects of Ocean Currents, Solar Flares, and other natural phenomena in causing long or short-term warming of the earth?

4. You frequently like to say things like "the debate is over, global warming is real". When was there ever a debate, and when have you ever permitted a debate? When did Prime Minister Martin ever convene a conference and hear both sides of the issue debated, or when did President Clinton ever commit money to determine whether man is causing global warming or not--with both sides of the matter clearly reported and discussed. All I recall hearing are hysterical news reports saying man-made climate change is "established fact" with the loudest spokesmen being those that have no scientific background ie Al Gore, Bono, etc.

Try to find some answers to these questions before you continue posting your recycled "Everyone believes in man-made Global Warming, the debate is over" arguments.[/b]

Um... no offense... but I think you just posed a personal attack against Newfie... regardless of your own views you're simply denying his... I feel somewhat offended by that for some odd reason :crazy:

... I would like to point out for the record... I still do not know if I believe in global warming, as I mentioned before "global chaos" makes more sense... basically the patterns are too sporatic to predict anymore :crazy: So from time to time I post pro-warming views and from time to time anti-warming views, it's not because I'm trying to confuse people, it's because I haven't made up my own mind yet so when I hear something that hasn't been posted yet in favor, I post it, or not in favor, I post it, so that people like me can hopefully reach their own decision easier... even though I don't seem to be drawing near my own conclusions yet :crazy: Sorry to say, I am still good for nothing :(

... Well, other than a laugh, lol :D

What I still say though, is if non-polluting machines were readily available, I would do my part if the option was there, but it's not. I don't even have the option of running a hydrogen powered anything because it's not even offered. I know there are arguments as to the effectiveness of a hydrogen powered vehicle (much like dropping from diesel to gasoline, is the drop from gasoline to hydrogen) but there are pros to it as well, such as: no more emitions from the consumer PERIOD. But I don't have that option, so I'll just have to continue using smog producing engines, because there's no point in upgrading if it's just not available :)

I think we can all agree something has changed from the time most of us were children. We can even look at some weather history and sumize a difference from longer ago than that.

What caused the shift is the big question. The protest types have their theorys and we sane people have ours, but all name calling and political afiliations aside I don't believe Al and his cronnies in the UN have some sort of political stratigy in mind. I think he and other hippies really believe their own beautifully hand painted signs.

He believes what he is saying and frankly I can't see what political gain he would aquire. The best case scenario is he secures the vote of all the protesters, greenies, or hippies, which I'm pretty certain he has anyway. I don't see him running again.

He could be looking to get a Nobel, and have some sort of legacy. God knows his partner in crime is desperate for one.

What do we do? What can we do? What good will any of the stuff we're already doing do? I'm all for clean machines...I mean I don't want dirty stuff, but if all the extra money spent to produce it and buy it are for little or no good what better use could the money and time serve?

I would imagine a lot of time and cash were spent convincing people not to sail out into the Ocean because, " hey dude...like...you'll fall off the edge of the world and into some Dragons and stuff."

One thing that I would like to know is what has changed in the last 5 years that never happened in the last 75 years...People are talking about all these changes, sure we have beaten old weather records, some winters with low snow or green Christmas , hot summers, but we are getting the same weather that happened in the last 100 years..Nothing major has changed..What were people calling it 100 years ago when they had a green Christmas or a really hot summer..I haven't seen any type of evidence that tells me that the weather is getting worse, but just telling us that the weather is going in cycles...

was watching discovery about polar bears.they claim the the bears have lost 7% of their hunting ground,which is ice. this would be the size of texas. their saying global warming.i really don't know what to think. some have asked the question what has happened in the last 75 yrs. and more so since 96. does space exploration ring a bell ? how about space shuttle ? weather has been really weird right after one has went up. this is just a personal thought of mine.as someone said $

quote from jan/feb 07 snowgoer so please dont turn me in lol
appearing before the Canadian Commons Committee on environmentand sustainable development last year .Carleton University paleoclimatologist professor Tim Patterson testified.there is no meaningfull correlation between co2 levels and earths temprature over this geological time frame . in fact when co2 levels were over 10 times higher than they are now about 450,000,000 years ago the planet was in the depths of the absolute coldest period in the last half billion years
peterson asked the committee on the basis of this evidence how could anyone still believe that the recent realatively small increase in co2 levels would be a major cause of this past centurys modest warming

there are many other people in this artical reffering to polar cap size AND its positive growth


it is interesting reading the OTHER side of the global warming issue instead of going only from the fear mongering you recieve on a daily basis from mainstream news

please everyone DO SOME RESEARCH and find your own facts I am not touting one side or the other only relaying info I have found while doing My research

M

... CO2 doesn't directly involve the temperature... air is air and can be heated/cooled down. However, the myth/fact is that CO2 can deplete O3 (otherwise known as Ozone). CO2 at ground level won't affect the Ozone layer, but CO2 in the upper atmosphere will (so it's been said). But... where's the proof? Why is the government trying to stop CO2 emissions? Is it simply because we're destroying the trees, and therefore will theoretically run out of O2 (oxygen we breath) if we stop producing CO2 beyond that which we exhale? I dunno :dazed:

I'm also confused by this: O3 (Ozone) is highly poisonous at ground level. Yet we now add it to our water... a poison... that can kill us... much like eating a chunk of chlorine... :dazed:

quote from jan/feb 07 snowgoer so please dont turn me in lol
appearing before the Canadian Commons Committee on environmentand sustainable development last year .Carleton University paleoclimatologist professor Tim Patterson testified.there is no meaningfull correlation between co2 levels and earths temprature over this geological time frame . in fact when co2 levels were over 10 times higher than they are now about 450,000,000 years ago the planet was in the depths of the absolute coldest period in the last half billion years
peterson asked the committee on the basis of this evidence how could anyone still believe that the recent realatively small increase in co2 levels would be a major cause of this past centurys modest warming

there are many other people in this artical reffering to polar cap size AND its positive growth
it is interesting reading the OTHER side of the global warming issue instead of going only from the fear mongering you recieve on a daily basis from mainstream news

please everyone DO SOME RESEARCH and find your own facts I am not touting one side or the other only relaying info I have found while doing My research

M[/b]
accept for the fact that i dont believe in evolution and how do you know it was like this that long ago it is a good point. how would co2 cause warming, co2 is cold anyway. if they are concerned with co2 just tell them to stop breathing and die, then it ill fix both problems.

My main point with the posts and the questions is to convince people to research this for themselves, be skeptical, and don't buy the "soundbites" from the news media or the Discovery Channel shows which are aimed at one thing--high ratings. Anyone can see that the weather and nature in general have had some strange things going on. However this has always ocurred. My 1980 Encyclopedia Americana says "Before the end of the 10th Century Greenland had been reached by the Vikings and settlements made there during a 2 century period of warmer climates". The vikings grew crops in Greenland during this time. How do you GWTBs explain this 2 century period of warmer climates back then? Was it a time-travel conspiracy by future conservatives who went back there and polluted the atmosphere?

I do not believe that Al Gore and his hysterical types are providing answers to climate questions. He has no credentials at all when it comes to climate. In fact, most of the people who are so vocal on the Global Warming issue have no credentials at all in this area. I just read an editorial warning us about Global Warming in the Minneapolis Star Tribune over the weekend. It was written by a medical doctor. That's great, but I don't buy weather warnings from a physician any more than I would let the TV weatherman give me health advice. You can have Barbara Streisand or Katie Couric be your weather shaman if you want. I choose to listen to people who actually know something.

It is true that many of the people who crusade about global warming--the GWTBs--are fully convinced that the world will end unless we stop CO2 emissions. That is what is scary! When people can convince themselves that they hold the key to the existence of mankind they are capable of anything. This is why I use the term enviro-fascism. These people really think that without them the world will end. If you believe this, it will justify whatever means are necessary to get your way. We are snowmobilers on this site. Do we really want to support these people? Do you not realize that the Enviro-whackos want to take your snowmobiles away?!

The polar bear population is a perfect example of the lies the GWTBs spread to put people in fear. GWTBs claim that the Polar Bear is heading for extinction. Well, I went to the source--the Polar Bear Biologist in Nunavut. He is one guy who would actually know. He is published in a recent intervew as saying that the Polar Bear population has doubled in the last 50 years, right along with the supposed increase in greenhouse gasses. He said the polar bear population is very healthy and stable, and that the hysteria about their survival is purely politically motivated. Here is one link to the article:

Polar Bears Are Thriving (http://www.bear-hunting.com/news.cfm?Action=News&NewsFlashID=289)

I totally agree Gusto..I went to my public library a while back and looked into previous weather around my area, I went back as far as I could find..Mostly things 30 years and up but I did find some old articles that where 75-100 old and they were talking about a green Christmas, and the lack of snow, and weather records that have just been broken... So the weather is not much different then what it was a hundred years ago..At least around here....

Global Warming or Normal Earth changes...
Al Gore mentioned the Lakes being reminants of a large glacier that melted thousands of years ago.. and when it melted the warm water broke the land open and flooded into the ocean causing drastic changes in the weather pattern and throwing Europe into an Ice Age for another thousand years...We weren't even around then..
So I understand that we probably have something to do with the Earth changing now, but can we stop it?? I don't think so..we could probably help with better cleaniness and such.

I tried to watch the whole film "inconvient truth" But I had a hard time, cuz I just don't care if Al wrecked the family car, or where he vacations..

Polar bears have probably accidently drown for years, swim around for 60 miles hoping to find Ice is pretty risky..

these people that would like to take our sleds away. wonder how many of them use a 2 stroke trimmer or have someone else with a 2 stroke trimmer do their lawn. just a thought.

This is interesting :)

Apparently they are also trying to make fuel guzzlers illegal. That's right: no more 4X4s (such as the famous Hummer or Humvee) and no more antique cars (like mine :D ). Yeah right! I'm not going to pay for the government's mistakes (if that's what they're called).

Why I asked so many questions about CO2 is because I actually wanted answers about CO2. Before emissions standards were set for snowmobiles to reduce CO2 emmisions, we were always taught in school that it's NOT the CO2 that changes our climate, but the CO (Carbon-Monoxide) which has the ability to break down O3 (not CO2 like I asked about before). Carbon-Monoxide (otherwise known as smog; produced typically in your older cars without catalyc converters that spit out uncombusted gas, typically in CO format along with other chemicals I haven't rememberd, lol) is what causes the Ozone (the only thing prevent us from dieing within seconds) to deplete. It can also put you in a permanent sleep, if ya know what I mean.

When exactly did they decide that CO2 emissions were to cease? Perhaps when they realized that cars to not have to emit CO2 at all, and very easily adjustable. Just one way of making the world a better place (who doesn't appreciate having oxygen to breath?). But as for stopping CO2 to prevent global warming, for those who believe global warming, shouldn't pay any heed to it. CO2 as mentioned, is cold. It reduces our temperature, not increase it. CO (smog) is a more serious problem, and it HAS been addressed (it is now illegal to build smog producing engines... I know 'cause I've been looking at my options for the ol' Ford I have; ended up stumbling my way across pages and pages of interesting info I never dreamt I'd find... such as what a catalyc converter is, even though I know I'm spelling it wrong, lol.)

Anyway, CO2, we all exhale. If it's a concern, we're going to destroy the planet even if we stop all factories and cars from every running again. Regardless of whether or not global warming is real, right now it is a money making hype.

I also find it interesting when people point out that it's been warmer in the past. It's true... our records only go back very few years. We've yet to set records if we had been recording them since the age of man began. Look at the ice age, for example. Where's our records? LOL. We don't even know what we did 2,000 years ago; archeaologists alone are forever changing their minds on how we did things :crazy:

normally I would stay out of this but I must......... There is a couple ideas or thoughts I have on this.

1. We are in a cycle. Thats all there is to it.

2. There needs to be a war!! population control is the key. I have said this before. The number of beings entering this world is way more than what is leaving!!!!

Thats all. Im not saying any more.

I wonder that same thing sometimes,many times after a space shuttle are weather acts up. They say on the news today they found a new world with watar on it , How about snow?

the space shuttle could be something interesting to look into. i know they burn like 26,000 gallons of fuel just to get into space. maybe the burnoff that high in the atomsphere can affect something. personally i think the space program has just been a joke for the last 10 years or so, we really havent done anything and it just wasting more and more money. maybe someday they will go back to the moon and then mars and who knows

2. There needs to be a war!! population control is the key. I have said this before. The number of beings entering this world is way more than what is leaving!!!![/b]



Any one else scared of this guy.......... :huh:

The solution is simple.. Start more cloud seeding programs!.. :) :)

normally I would stay out of this but I must......... There is a couple ideas or thoughts I have on this.

1. We are in a cycle. Thats all there is to it.

2. There needs to be a war!! population control is the key. I have said this before. The number of beings entering this world is way more than what is leaving!!!!

Thats all. Im not saying any more.[/b]
:cool:

the space shuttle could be something interesting to look into. i know they burn like 26,000 gallons of fuel just to get into space. maybe the burnoff that high in the atomsphere can affect something. personally i think the space program has just been a joke for the last 10 years or so, we really havent done anything and it just wasting more and more money. maybe someday they will go back to the moon and then mars and who knows[/b]

Yep. Enough energy for one family of 4 for ten years poking a hole in our atmosphere in an instant... I'm sure that doesn't have an affect on our atmosphere at all, LOL. Sarcasm, lol.

As for war... what the Heck do ya think we're in? That never-ending war in Iraq. Believe me, as long as the name "bush" has something to do with the US there will always be war, and always along with that an "excuse" to double our gas prices again. Let's face it, we could burn all the fossil fuels on the planet, and it still wouldn't be the #1 contributor to global warming. It's all a scam I say! All a scam! LOL.

There is an extremely well-thought out article about man-mad global warming here (http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=034028d4-8a4a-4103-8012-6445ac5ba715). The United Nations and power-hungry politicians like Stephane Dion and Al Gore are maximizing the hysteria about Global Warming for their own benefit. They are scaring people into supporting them, they are not educating people with facts. No politician would do that, would they? The linked article says that the United Nations' report predicts global sea levels to rise by inches, not feet, and that the warming will not be as bad as they predicted in 2001.

If those of you who believe everything you hear from the media have the spine, I invite you to read the article I've linked and comment on it. And--I also invite you to answer the questions I raised in the last post.[/b]
I m curious as to why you always say that any polititian who is worried about global warming as Power-hungry, and accuse them of pushing their own agenda.
Its also interesting how you dismiss any talk of global warming, except when it appears to support you position, such as the oceans rising by inches and not feet.
BTW, if the oceans rise by inches it will spell disaster for millions of people in coastal communities.

I think we can all agree something has changed from the time most of us were children. We can even look at some weather history and sumize a difference from longer ago than that.

What caused the shift is the big question. The protest types have their theorys and we sane people have ours, but all name calling and political afiliations aside I don't believe Al and his cronnies in the UN have some sort of political stratigy in mind. I think he and other hippies really believe their own beautifully hand painted signs.

He believes what he is saying and frankly I can't see what political gain he would aquire. The best case scenario is he secures the vote of all the protesters, greenies, or hippies, which I'm pretty certain he has anyway. I don't see him running again.

He could be looking to get a Nobel, and have some sort of legacy. God knows his partner in crime is desperate for one.

What do we do? What can we do? What good will any of the stuff we're already doing do? I'm all for clean machines...I mean I don't want dirty stuff, but if all the extra money spent to produce it and buy it are for little or no good what better use could the money and time serve?

I would imagine a lot of time and cash were spent convincing people not to sail out into the Ocean because, " hey dude...like...you'll fall off the edge of the world and into some Dragons and stuff."[/b]
This has been what Ive been saying all along. I don t know if we can make a difference in the whole global warming thing, but we ve got nothing to lose by trying. Spend a few dollars now on new technology and we ll all benifit in the future, whether global warming is happening or not.

One thing that I would like to know is what has changed in the last 5 years that never happened in the last 75 years...People are talking about all these changes, sure we have beaten old weather records, some winters with low snow or green Christmas , hot summers, but we are getting the same weather that happened in the last 100 years..Nothing major has changed..What were people calling it 100 years ago when they had a green Christmas or a really hot summer..I haven't seen any type of evidence that tells me that the weather is getting worse, but just telling us that the weather is going in cycles...[/b]
The difference is that 11 of the warment years since 1850 have occured in the last 12 years.

normally I would stay out of this but I must......... There is a couple ideas or thoughts I have on this.

2. There needs to be a war!! population control is the key. I have said this before. The number of beings entering this world is way more than what is leaving!!!!

Thats all. Im not saying any more.[/b]
Scary indeed. Actually all industrialized countries are in population decline, or rather, negative growth. Birth rates have dropped and we are no longer replacing our populations. The underdeveloped world is another story however.

I believe all species encounter a natural control measure in terms of its population when that population grows to greater than natural size. :lookaround: I know...I know. What that "Natural size" is I can only theorize, maybe when it exceeds its food supply, something of that nature.

Anyway if you pay attention, some cases of large scale population decline of many species are atributed to desease or mass cases of infertilization. Expamples may be Cronic Wasting Desease in Deer populations, Bird Flue, etc.

I believe this is a defense mechanism to control population and, ironically, further the species. By "further" I mean in a healthy respect, servival of the fittest if you will.


Humans have reached that point, in my view, and the evidence is the enormous Cancer rates, HIV, etc. I think that is why virus' mutate and come back stronger. The medical field has done very little to combat any significant disease or deadly illness in my opinion and I atribute it to my afore mentioned theory, not the popular idea that Drug Co.s hold out for profit sake. I think they are combatting a God or nature (or what ever or who ever you believe in) emplaced population control measure. And in the imortal words of Jeff Goldblum,"nature finds a way". Fighting it is futile. This whole GW fenominon may be just God's or nature's "plan B" or "phase II" or something.


Now don't swarm me w/ a 100 posts stating examples of large scale death and saying, "well what about....." I'm not saying every case, just maybe the extreme population sizes. Its just a theory and I'm not a scientist. Nor do I play one on TV......

I m curious as to why you always say that any polititian who is worried about global warming as Power-hungry, and accuse them of pushing their own agenda.
Its also interesting how you dismiss any talk of global warming, except when it appears to support you position, such as the oceans rising by inches and not feet.
BTW, if the oceans rise by inches it will spell disaster for millions of people in coastal communities.
This has been what Ive been saying all along. I don t know if we can make a difference in the whole global warming thing, but we ve got nothing to lose by trying. Spend a few dollars now on new technology and we ll all benifit in the future, whether global warming is happening or not.
The difference is that 11 of the warment years since 1850 have occured in the last 12 years.
Scary indeed. Actually all industrialized countries are in population decline, or rather, negative growth. Birth rates have dropped and we are no longer replacing our populations. The underdeveloped world is another story however.[/b]

Newfie--instead of changing the subject or turning this into a personal contest--would you make an attempt to provide an answer to any of the questions I have raised? Why were the climatologists so wrong in their hurricane predictions in 2006? Why do the GWTBs quote non-climatologists when they make their points? Can you explain why the current temperature cycles are any different than the many cycles that have ocurred in the past? To simply say "Yes--man is causing them this time" doesn't cut it. Provide proof with references from actual climatologists please, not Barbara Streisand or the news anchors on NBC who worry more about their hair and their ratings than anything else.

When you say that it costs us nothing to make improvements that may or may not change the temperature situation you are living in a dreamworld. I take it your freedom to snowmobile doesn't mean anything to you, or your freedom in general for that matter. Don't you realize that the Global Warming True Believers hate snowmobiles, cars and anything that burns fossil fuels? Or worse yet--don't you care? If Al Gore had the power, he would send your snowmobile to the crusher to be recycled in a heartbeart. If you disagree, do research on what the Clinton/Gore administration tried to do about snowmobiling in Yellowstone Park. They wanted to shut it down completely. If given the power they would not stop there, you can take it to the bank.

I want to be clear--of course nature has been volatile lately. By definition it is always volatile otherwise it wouldn't be nature. My issue is with people who spout the man-made global warming theories, which you also seem to support. You haven't provided credible evidence to support your case. Not at all.

:withstupid:

Amen Brother.......

"credible evidence" is there for anyone wishing to research it intelligently. One must be careful to avoid the political rhetoric while doing so and avoid simply googling for evidence to the contrary. Again, global warming is a known and existing phenomenon.. Plugging ones ears, covering ones eyes and yelling "IS NOT, IS NOT!" won't make it go away.. I'm no fan of thinking technology or science will make it go away either. It is what it is...I'm a republican, I don't have much respect for Mr. Gore.. I love my two stroke snowmobiles and will continue to use them at every opportunity. I was an environmental studies major at the University of Vermont many years ago.. That does NOT make me a tree-hugging liberal, it doesn't make me an expert either; but it did give me an educated view of factors relating to the environment. Continue to believe whatever you want, but if you REALLY research the facts and don't just jump on the "it's a myth" "it's a normal cycle" bandwagon, you will be surprised at what you find. I realize this is a very unpopular view here on the forum. I think the denial of global warming by the majority of sledders (at least here) may be emotionally based.. Believe me, I don't want anyone taking MY sleds away either but I try not to let that remote possibility cloud the reality of a well documented, studied and substantiated environmental phenomenon.

"credible evidence" is there for anyone wishing to research it intelligently. One must be careful to avoid the political rhetoric while doing so and avoid simply googling for evidence to the contrary. Again, global warming is a known and existing phenomenon.. Plugging ones ears, covering ones eyes and yelling "IS NOT, IS NOT!" won't make it go away.. I'm no fan of thinking technology or science will make it go away either. It is what it is...I'm a republican, I don't have much respect for Mr. Gore.. I love my two stroke snowmobiles and will continue to use them at every opportunity. I was an environmental studies major at the University of Vermont many years ago.. That does NOT make me a tree-hugging liberal, it doesn't make me an expert either; but it did give me an educated view of factors relating to the environment. Continue to believe whatever you want, but if you REALLY research the facts and don't just jump on the "it's a myth" "it's a normal cycle" bandwagon, you will be surprised at what you find. I realize this is a very unpopular view here on the forum. I think the denial of global warming by the majority of sledders (at least here) may be emotionally based.. Believe me, I don't want anyone taking MY sleds away either but I try not to let that remote possibility cloud the reality of a well documented, studied and substantiated environmental phenomenon.[/b]

Once again, another GWTB who cannot answer the questions I have raised. It seems I have been the only one linking to independent sources on this thread. The posters like yourself who are defending man-mad global warming quote nothing but hearsay. No references, no experts, nothing. In other words, this is a case of you plugging your ears and saying "Global Warming Exists! It Does! It Does! It Does! I don't care what kind of evidence you present to the contrary!"

1. Where is your "credible evidence", your "well documented, studied and substantiated" information?? Again, please post info from climatologists and reference your sources please. There is actually much more credible evidence against man-made global warming than for it. It has nothing to do with Googling, it has to do with telling the difference between a stuffed suit and people who actually are experts in the field. It's not too hard if you give it a try.

2. So, for example, would you know better than a professional Polar Bear Biologist about the state of Polar Bear populations? Or did you plug your ears and eyes and refuse to read the article? The link I posted quotes directly from a real, credentialed expert, it is not hearsay.

You may call it "emotional", I call it presenting facts and requesting if any of you can refute them. None of you have. It looks like "the debate is over", and man-made global warming is losing big time.

Sorry , it is not up to me, or anyone else to provide you with facts... It's the other way around, an existing theory must be DISproved.I don't have the time or the energy to try and play the game of being detective on everything you've posted. Don't ask me to prove there is a sun and a moon, or the theory of gravity.Did you know there is an existing flat earth society?.. Yup, you can actually find people that will still argue the world is flat . Your "evidence" from one guy who is a polar bear expert hardly addresses the big picture. ... I could post volumes if I had the time and the energy.. Only for you to come back with "that's Al Gore brainwashing you".. So really, why should I bother? Have you SEEN pictures of the polar ice cap? do you DENY it is melting?... Let me guess, it's the bleeding heart liberals using trick phototgraphy. Or "it's a natural cycle"...... It's not worth arguing about anymore here, at least for me... I'd rather go sledding and make friends than make enemies here.... I'll stay out of this discussion from now on.. Happy trails

Newfie 11 out of the last 12 years have been the warmest ???? I would love to know where you get your info from..I don't live that far away from you and from the information that I have seen on the Internet ( Environment Canada ) does not hold true to what you are saying..Sure Environment Canada is brutal at predicting the weather forecast but I think they would be good at keeping records of past weather..Where do you get your information from?? I would like to check it out......

Newfie 11 out of the last 12 years have been the warmest ???? I would love to know where you get your info from..I don't live that far away from you and from the information that I have seen on the Internet ( Environment Canada ) does not hold true to what you are saying..Sure Environment Canada is brutal at predicting the weather forecast but I think they would be good at keeping records of past weather..Where do you get your information from?? I would like to check it out......[/b]
Again, it's something I heard on the CBC. Now, people like Gusto may dismiss anything the CBC broadcasts because it's a publicly owned station, but I trust it as much as I would trust any news source in the world.

Tic, you and I think alot alike. There is a scientific concensus regarding global warming, yet the sceptics can cite any number of flakes as proof that it's not happening and then ask us to prove them wrong. And you're absolutely right, it's pretty much a waste of time because they believe that anyone who believes in global warming is either brain-washed, brain dead, or pushing a political agenda.

Gusto, it doesn't have to be all or nothing. You can take steps to fight global warming without reverting to lifing like a cave man. Look at the progress we've made fighting pollution over the last 50 years and you can see that technology can play a huge role in reducing emissions. Can you imagine what the world would be like if not for people who wanted to take steps to fight pollution? At every step, these environmentalists, or "enviro-nazis" as many here would call them, were met with scorn and ridicule, accused of trying to destroy the economy, and shut down industry. Have a look at eastern Europe to get an idea what our environment would be like if not for people pushing for environmental reform. And if we were having this discussion 30 or 50 years ago there would be people here saying that it's all a political agenda, that it's over reaction, that there is not proof that pollution causes disease, yada yada yada.

It's unbelievable that it's the sceptics of global warming who push the panic buttons about political agendas and self-serving politians. The easiest thing for a polititian to do is ignore a serious problem and concentrate on the short term. They are the polititians with a self-serving agenda, not the ones brave enough to tackle the big, long term issues.

Now, before you say anything about Al Gore, I'm not a Gore supporter either (though I do think he would've been the lesser of two evils) and I'm not especially left-wing. I believe in sensible compromise, in take the middle road between any extremes. More importantly I believe in looking at things issue by issue, rather then deciding based simply on partisan lines. I've never seen "Inconvienent Truth", and no one that knows me would consider me radical in any sense unless it's in my belief in approaching every issue logically and with an open mind.

Believe me, I wish I could be like many people here and simply dismiss the whole issue of global warming as nonsense, but looking at the evidence that seems rather silly.

I am sceptical that we, as a society, will be able and willing to make the changes necessary to have an affect on climate change, but that doesn't mean I don't believe it's happening.

Am I going to give up on my two-stroke? Not any time soon. Would I buy a Hybrid pick-up? Sure, why not? My point about the benefits of making changes to combat global warming is that it will reduce our energy costs, and will save us money, not through our economy into a tumble as the big oil companies would have you believe.

Speaking of big oil companies, who do you think is really pushing a self-serving agenda? Who do you think benefits from us continuing to drive our v-8 pick-ups? Who do you think benefits from people dismissing global warming as leftist nonsense?

As for your insistance that gloabal warming must be false because climatologists said 2006 would be a terible hurricane year, I never heard any climatologists say that, so I can't, and won't, get into a discussion as to why they were wrong. I think it's yet another example of a sceptic trying to discredit a valid scientific theory.

Despite saying earlier that I wouldn't be bothered to go and get "proof" of global warming, it was so easy to find credible support that global warming is happening that I couldn't resist.
Here is Canada's 4th National Report on Climate Change (http://www.ec.gc.ca/climate/4th_Report_on_CC_e.pdf). This was prepared for Stephen Harper's Conservative government, so there can be no accusations of "left-wing brain washing" or "leftist influnence", as Stephen Harper is about as right wing as anyone could possiblely be. It makes for some interesting reading.

I never thought a thread could get more entertaining as it went along...

I do think it is funny that when I'm in the mood to support theories for global warming (I believe in order for a debate to exist and before I can make up my mind I need to look into both sides of the story) when I support global warming theories people tell me things like "you shouldn't quote what you see in a movie" and I've never seen that movie either, LOL. Where does most of my information come from? Heresay. Truth be known. Global warming is a heated debate because: it was once used as an excuse to raise gas prices. THAT created enough curiosity and anger that people started creating their own theories, let alone any scientific evidence of any kind.

Does the government believe in global warming? No. They don't. If they did, they'd be forcing us to buy new technology, profit off of that at the same time, and create a win win situation where global warming stops and their profits continue to grow. Right now: they're profiting on the conflict we the society has created for ourselves by both jacking up gas prices, and "assisting" in alternative energy fuels and profiting off that as well.

If we ignore global warming, we do need to pay attention to the amount of pollution we produce. Be it sewage in the oceans (or any body of water at that... I can't even swim outdoors anymore because SOMEBODY SOMEWHERE has a cabin and no proper septic tank; which seems to add up more than mother nature's waste, lol) or pollution in the earth, or radiation in the air (nuclear radition once covered the entire northern hemisphere... doesn't it take 100 years for that to die down?) we do need to clean up our act before we kill off all nature REGARDLESS of a global warming effort of any kind.

Better, more efficient technologies can do this. It will also save us money (who wouldn't like to get 100 miles per gallon?) and for crying out loud, when you need to take a crap, stop using our source of drinking water, LOL.

Yeah, things need to be done. We're destroying the planet no matter how you look at it. This decade it's called "global warming" next decade "global catastrophe" the next decade, whatever, but we DO have the ability to destroy the planet, but just because we can, it doesn't mean we should. At least we can pay attention to where we throw our trash, instead of dumping our unused fuel and our sewage in our source of drinking water. Yeah, we're some smart we is!!! :D

Here is something interesting please read!!!

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/...10417075108.htm (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/04/010417075108.htm)

http://www.newswithviews.com/NWVexclusive/exclusive113.htm


I am still on the fence I do believe it is getting warmer the question is if its man made or a natural cycle.

Some nice, good, easy reading :). I don't understand how NO and CO alone can't cause warming, but combined somehow react with methane and O3? I'm missing something... perhaps it's the HEAT generated from the emissions that produce a warmer air? LOL.

Regardless on the global warming issue, inhaling too many pollutants such as NO CO and CO2 can kill you. So... perhaps limiting NO and CO as well as CO2 prevents short term effects with no long term effects (it's a money making racket, I say again, I say!) is actually good, because there are that many vehicles doubling every so many years that we'd be dead by now if there weren't some control over it.

They all left out some info though, even though what they say as "fact" may be "fact" but if the icecaps were melting due to warming, they'd create a cooling effect. In other words: the "evidence" they talk of won't be present until it's too late. By the time we have evidence that global warming is real, the earth will no longer have a way to cool itself, regardless of if man had anything to do with it. When the northern ice cap in particular is gone, how will the oceans stay cool? As long as that cap keeps melting, we'll never experience global warming. We'll only experience it AFTER they've stopped melting. THEN it's too late. We may not have created global warming, but regarldess of if we should stop earth from cycling, we could prevent global warming/cooling from occuring. But would that be a bad idea? If ya stop earth from cycling, wouldn't life stop? It needs to warm up, freeze, whatever, in order to keep the energy flowing in one direction or another. If ya stop it, the ball can't bounce. If the ball ain't bouncing, nothing's happening. As long as the earth is moving, there will be wind. So climate will always exist. The atmosphere will always change regardless of what we do. The sun plays a bigger role in our lives than our pollution. So what do I have to say... nothing... I'm done with this thread. I'm going to enjoy my life, and if it gets warm, I'll enjoy the sun before it burns us to a crisp! :)

I am going to go off topic of this thread a bit and not state my opinion on the global warming issue, although I do believe weather lately is different than recorded in the recent past. I think everyone is forgetting something here as far as carbon emmissions go. Power plants, industry, (and even the space shuttle taking off as some have mentioned) emit more co emissins daily than everyones car, motorcycle, or SNOWMOBILE does in the entire US. Why do I have to drive a hydrogen car or (gasp) snowmobile to save the earth? Where is the hydrogen powered power plant? Don't even get me started on gas prices. Supply and demand?....there is PLENTY of oil left. Oil supply and even oil prices are not the main cause of high gas prices refining capacity is. Sorry for the rant I am done now :)

Well some of my numbers were a little off. I read today in a Boating magazine that 5 of the warmest years on record have occured since 1996, and 10 of the warmest years on record have occured since 1990. They had a host of other facts and items relating to global warming, including a study done by the American (Republican) Government.

I also saw An Inconvient Truth on the weekend. I think the last part of the movie is what people need to focus on. There's no need to freak out and assume that if you believe in Global warming you'll have to give up your snowmobile. We just have to take simple steps to cut back on our emissions, steps that will save us money in the long run and strengthen our economy.

"Tic, you and I think alot alike. There is a scientific concensus regarding global warming, yet the sceptics can cite any number of flakes as proof that it's not happening and then ask us to prove them wrong."
--Newfie Bullet

"Sorry , it is not up to me, or anyone else to provide you with facts... It's the other way around, an existing theory must be DISproved.I don't have the time or the energy to try and play the game of being detective on everything you've posted. Don't ask me to prove there is a sun and a moon, or the theory of gravity.Did you know there is an existing flat earth society?.. Yup, you can actually find people that will still argue the world is flat . Your "evidence" from one guy who is a polar bear expert hardly addresses the big picture."
--tic

"I am of the opinion that this (Global Warming) is one of the greatest hoaxes ever perpetrated on the American people,” hurricane expert Bill Gray told Washington Post reporter Joel Achenbach in a story that ran last spring.Gray, professor emeritus of atmospheric science at Colorado State, and other scientists who are daring to doubt the more mainstream view of global warming are paying a price. Boston Globe columnist Ellen Goodman recently compared them to Holocaust deniers. (Sound familiar? "Flat Earth" etc--Gusto) Richard Lindzen, an atmospheric physicist and the Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Meteorology at MIT, wrote an op-ed piece for the Wall Street Journal last summer describing the professional problems skeptics of global warming are facing.

“Scientists who dissent from the alarmism have seen their grant funds disappear, their work derided, and themselves libeled as industry stooges, scientific hacks or worse,” writes Lindzen. “Consequently, lies about climate change gain credence even when they fly in the face of the science that supposedly is their basis.”

So in this thread--we have "tic", "Pepsi Fuzz" and "Newfie Bullet" repeating that they have been taught that Global Warming is an established fact that needs to be disproved, and we have 2 PhDs in atmospheric physics and atmospheric science saying that it is a bunch of bunk. But then again, I'm sure that Tic, Fuzz, and Bullet all have better educations than that "Flake" from MIT--one of the most esteemed universities in the world...And I'm sure that they know more about polar bears than the polar bear biologist from Nunavut, and I'm sure that they know more than many, many other scientists who are on record doubting that man-made global warming is ocurring. Climatologists Worldwide Doubt Global Warming (http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/017028.php)

Who should we believe in this debate? I'll let you--the reader, decide. But I would go with the guys who have studied weather for a living before I'll go with Tic, Fuzz, Bullet or that cardboard guy--what's his name? Gore? Who has no background in climatology, only in politics. Keep it up GWTBs, we'll see who believed in Flat Earth science when this is all said and done. You are losing the debate, but you are winning the propaganda war, I'll grant you that.

Once again, Gusto, you are completely distorting the discussion.
Pepsi Fuzz has said on numerous occassions that he doesn't know what to believe.
I believe that tic and myself have said over and over again that we believe what we do because the over whelming majority of scientists in the world have said they believe that global warming is happening. Government agencies around the world have said that it's happening. Even people here on this forum who have argued that mankind has nothing to do it it have said that no one would be silly enough to deny that it's happening. The facts support it. The numbers support it. Empirical evidence supports it. Weather records support it. No one with a grain of sense denies it.

So, you want to let the reader decide. Fine. Reader, don't listen to anything that I've said, or tic or anyone else who's not been afraid to take a very unpopular stand here. Just listen to the evidence.

Oh, I hope for your own sake you're not comparing Global warming deniers to holocaust deniers as a support for your argument. I'm as open-minded as anyone, but if denying global warming is anywhere near as ridiculous as denying the holocaust I think you've just lost your argument.

Just for kicks maybe we should start a discussion about the earth being round and evolution and we'll really find out about people here. I'm curious to know how many people are going to refute everything society has come to accept as true.