helmet laws as of June 2007.

http://www.iihs.org/laws/state_laws/helmet_current.html on our news a bunch of bikers in Lansing were trying to get the Michigan law changed for mandatory helmet laws. Michigan is one of 20 states that have the law into effect that all motorcyle riders wear helmets.

So what do you guys think? Should it be law that you must wear a helmet? Our gov has vetoed this once and say's she will do it again if they get a bill to pass.

I myself would not think of riding a bike without one but then again I don't have a bike. What do you guys who have bikes think?


Snow4

I think that yes must wear a helmet , It can save you as most snowmobilers will agree.

I think it should be the bikers choice.

I don`t think its anyone's right to tell me that I must wear a helmet or to buckle up in my car I feel it is the persons choice .with that said I wear both .answer this though , if helmets are so great why is it illegal to wear a helmet while driving a car on the road ?

Wear a helmet

no wonder the insurance is so high

Look at Indian Larry

If I want to ride without a helmet, it should be my right and responsibility. That said, I wouldn't ride without.

helmet story (http://abclocal.go.com/wjrt/story?section=nation_world&id=5367741) Here is what the local news had to report with the riders in favor of No helmet law.

Snow4

it should be the persons choice.

if your just crusing around town yes wear one as anything can happen, but if your out on the highway going WFO like most do then no you shouldnt need one cause at that speed it wont help.

I remember a bunch of my buds riding in a similar rally at BikeWeek in Daytona.
It got held up for some time because there was an accident and one person not wearing a helmet got killed. Not exactly the message they were trying to send out.

I remember Gary Busey being a huge supporter of the pro-choice debate until he wiped out on his ride and smacked his skull on a curb. Since then he's changed his tune. Last I heard anyways. That was a long time ago. Just revealed that I am a dinosaur. LOL

Jeff

Ill try to make this short and sweet.
As a law enforcement officer I agree that there should be a helmet law. Why? It is proven beyond a doubt without any chance to dispute it that seatbelts and helmets save lives and reduce injuries. There are the people who say that a seatbelt would have killed them but there are ten thousand people saved for every one that is killed by a seatbelt. I don’t like the idea of taxpayers spending billions of dollars supporting people who have to spend the rest of their lives on unable to work or worse when a seatbelt would have helped.

Now on the other side. It has been proven that the number of deaths and injuries are down because of seatbelt laws. Just like you see when helmet laws are put into effect. If that is the case then why aren't my insurance rates going down instead of up. The insurance companies are the biggest lobbyist when it comes to seatbelt and helmet laws yet they are the one reaping the financial benefits. The less in claims they pay out the more profit they make. When I bought my first car on my own out of high school I was shopping for insurance. I had one seatbelt ticket on my record and one insurance company told me that my rates would be higher than if I had a DUI on my record because their stats show that they pay more in injury claims to unrestrained motorist then they do to intoxicated drives involved in accidents, the drunks are usually not the ones that get hurt.

thats not short but your choice. get where this goes, PRO CHOICE. land of the free to do what we say, I think not. now I do not see the conection to the law enforcement officer and not being pro choice :rolleyes: . did someone make you become a cop? get rid of the money in gov and watch what happens. not one person claims that riding without is not harmful or more so than with one on. but it is america and it was free to make choices for a reason . " the peasants got tired of doing what the king said, be it pay more taxes or just that what he said." now I wear a helmet by choice does that make me think you should be made too, NO. next thing is full face only why not it will help. like snofrog said in a car better yet.

I wouldn't ride without a helmet. But I feel { LET THOSE WHO RIDE, DECIDE } I think the government should legalize FREEDOM first before telling us what to do or what not to do. just my 2 cents.

:huh: i think there should be a helmet law ...... but then again i dontdrive a motorcycle.... :huh:

good job guys !!! I was afraid this was going to be a flamefest ( yes that is a new word lol )

Well that's a good question sometimes I would other times I would not like when it's real hot out like today. just my opinion..


Rick

Well that's a good question sometimes I would other times I would not like when it's real hot out like today. just my opinion..
Rick[/b]

IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO WEAR ONE. THAT IS YOUR RIGHT!!!
IT'S ALL ON YOU IF SOMETHING SHOULD HAPPEN PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!
I PERSONALLY WEAR ONE AT ALLTIMES

COBRA

I think each person should have the right to choose. BUT if you choose to go without you would have to provide the extra insurance to cover yourself.

And although I would love to ride without a helmet, I could never do it with the way people drive today.

What would happen if the Laws were taken off of the books but the insurance companies said they would not cover any expense in a crash which injuries to the head occured and no helmet was used?

What would happen if the Laws were taken off of the books but the insurance companies said they would not cover any expense in a crash which injuries to the head occured and no helmet was used?[/b]


Then I would have to make that decision. At least it would be up to me.

The State of Florida does not require a helmet when riding your bike providing you have a minimum of $10,000 in coverage and over 21. There is no better feeling than to ride your bike with no helmet.
It should be the choice of the person riding the bike and we have not seen an increase in motorcycle deaths because of the lack of helmets.

"Riders Choice!"

What would happen if the Laws were taken off of the books but the insurance companies said they would not cover any expense in a crash which injuries to the head occured and no helmet was used?[/b]
then they would have to lower the rates for us as the costs would go down. well they would have to find another sucker to pay the premiums with no coverage because I assure you I would not.

then they would have to lower the rates for us as the costs would go down. well they would have to find another sucker to pay the premiums with no coverage because I assure you I would not.[/b]

Very good point Dooman. The insurance companies want the premiums and will get laws enacted to help them from paying out. In Florida, you do not have to have insurance on a motorcyle unless you have a loan or ride with no helmet.

Richard

IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO WEAR ONE. THAT IS YOUR RIGHT!!!
IT'S ALL ON YOU IF SOMETHING SHOULD HAPPEN PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!
I PERSONALLY WEAR ONE AT ALLTIMES

COBRA[/b]

What about the kids of the rider that suffers a fatal blow because he chose not to wear a helmet?

or could be like this guy (http://www.myquadvideos.com/videos/Crashes...scovery_Channel)

What about the kids of the rider that suffers a fatal blow because he chose not to wear a helmet?[/b]

What about the kids of a snowmobiler ? Sledders die every year due to the choice that THEY made to get on a sled . Using the very reasoning that you use, should we not outlaw snowmobiles ? Can you argue that lives won't be saved if we eliminate them from our culture ?





those who give up freedoms ...

what about the kids of a snowmobiler ? sledders die every year due to the choice that THEY made to get on a sled . using the very reasoning that you use should we not outlaw snowmobiles ? can you argue that lives wont be saved if we eliminate them from our culture ?
those who give up freedoms ...[/b]
snowmobilers must wear a helmet by law Mark.. I don't understand your argument although I know you have a point with the freedom of choice bit.

Not going either direction here I'm just stating I don't understand your connection to bike helmets and snowmobile helmets, Both sports require a helmet at this time by law, In michigan anyway.

Should snowmobilers have the choice too? Is that what your saying?

Snow4

snowmobilers must wear a helmet by law Mark.. I don't understand your argument although I know you have a point with the freedom of choice bit.

Not going either direction here I'm just stating I don't understand your connection to bike helmets and snowmobile helmets, Both sports require a helmet at this time by law, In michigan anyway.

Should snowmobilers have the choice too? Is that what your saying?

Snow4[/b]

I don't think that it had anything to do with wearing helmets on snowmobiles.

This is how I understood Mark's statement: By using Freeze's reasoning that kid's are left without a parent because their father or mother chose not to wear a helmet, would it not make sense to outlaw snowmobile riding because a parent might get killed while riding the trails by sled?

I don't think that it had anything to do with wearing helmets on snowmobiles.

This is how I understood Mark's statement: By using Freeze's reasoning that kid's are left without a parent because their father or mother chose not to wear a helmet, would it not make sense to outlaw snowmobile riding because a parent might get killed while riding the trails by sled?[/b]


that sum`s it up Kieth :thumbsup: . obviously ... I wouldnt want my RIGHTS as a sledder infringed upon anymore than my rights as a motorcyclist.

I don't think that it had anything to do with wearing helmets on snowmobiles.

This is how I understood Mark's statement: By using Freeze's reasoning that kid's are left without a parent because their father or mother chose not to wear a helmet, would it not make sense to outlaw snowmobile riding because a parent might get killed while riding the trails by sled?[/b]
I understand what both of you are saying in relationship to the fact anyone of us could be killed at anytime (even walking across a street), however, To use the arguement that snowmobiling theoreticaly could/should be banned as an arguemnt/debate/example for pro-choice on helmet wearing does not make any sense to me because they are not saying you can't ride a bike. They are saying you must wear a helmet while riding a bike, and you must wear a helmet riding a snowmobile.

I guess I'm not understanding the relationshiop between not riding a snowmobile vs not wearing a helmet on a bike. No one is threatening riding a bike whatsoever. What they are doing at this point is taking away the right to choose wether you have to wear the helmet, and quite honestly I'm torn on what I believe is right with respect to that issue.

Snow4

If I want to ride without a helmet, it should be my right and responsibility. That said, I wouldn't ride without.[/b]


:withstupid:

I understand what both of you are saying in relationship to the fact anyone of us could be killed at anytime (even walking across a street), however, To use the arguement that snowmobiling theoreticaly could/should be banned as an arguemnt/debate/example for pro-choice on helmet wearing does not make any sense to me because they are not saying you can't ride a bike. They are saying you must wear a helmet while riding a bike, and you must wear a helmet riding a snowmobile.

I guess I'm not understanding the relationshiop between not riding a snowmobile vs not wearing a helmet on a bike. No one is threatening riding a bike whatsoever. What they are doing at this point is taking away the right to choose wether you have to wear the helmet, and quite honestly I'm torn on what I believe is right with respect to that issue.

Snow4[/b]

Nope, you're not getting it.

Freezerburnt made a statement implying that we should take away the riders choice of whether or not to wear a helmet in order to protect the future of our children. Mark's statement was not about whether you can ride a bike or a snowmobile or whether or not you should be forced to use a helmet on either. He was showing how silly he felt the reasoning was that Freezerburnt was using for forcing the use of motorcycle helmets by using the same reasoning in an example using snowmobile riding. That's all. Don't try to read anything else into it. We both understand the issue at hand and neither of us thinks that snowmobile riding should be banned.


Sorry for the confusion Snow4.

K~

I would have to make my decision completely on a financial level, in order to not get emotional. (those close to me have been involved in m/c accidents, with and without lids.)

If your choice doesn't cost ME (the public) anything, then go for it, take the additional risk if you find the reward worth it. By this I mean if MY insurance or health costs increase because of YOUR decision, then you should have to either wear a lid, or sign off on the health / insurance risk.

I seen the point quickly. being the smart Aguy I am. freedom is choices we get to make. MikeD , you do not pay my insurance premiums and the ones getting them are turning huge profits (wallstreet even knows it) and paying lavish ceo compensation at the same time. so the cost of my choice to ride without, when I choose, is not showing up there. if it is show me. but the point made is most of the things we enjoy cars, bikes ect are dangerous. that said going with FB's thinking we should outlaw most, even wearing protective gear. I have seen people live and die in this instance. I have seen guys die racing wearing all the best gear and belts,ect. should that be outlawed as it left one young man I know without his father. it really is a good arguement to the fact.

Originally posted by Idooski
Nope, you're not getting it.

Freezerburnt made a statement implying that we should take away the riders choice of whether or not to wear a helmet in order to protect the future of our children. Mark's statement was not about whether you can ride a bike or a snowmobile at all or whether or not you should be forced to use a helmet on either. He was showing how silly he felt the reasoning was that Freezerburnt was using for forcing the use of motorcycle helmets by using the same reasoning in an example using snowmobile riding. That's all. Don't try to read anything else into it. We both understand the issue at hand and neither of us thinks that snowmobile riding should be banned.


Sorry for the confusion Snow4.

COMPLETE BS

Snow4 is right in her assumptions

Yu guys ALWAYS twist words into your favor

Do you wear safety glasses at work what about safety boots etc

and YES it is OUR insurance cost that go up because of your macho man attitude towards helmets

If you are on a highway,road IMO helmets should be mandatory

If on your property,its your choice

Maybe being over 30 I see life diferently then I did when I was a teem when it comes to safety

BTW Idooski you should not put words in my mouh by trying to explain what another member and I meant

We meant what we meant NOT what you want to believe we meant

I am talking about protective gear NOT the sport/transportation itself,he then talked about sleds which is NOT the subject at hand nor is it a injury prevent tool

But as above you are trying to change the debate to something else

I have confirmed with Mark that I understand what he was getting at. I guess that we just are having a hard time explaining that. All the bashing and name calling certainly doesn't help matters. Frezerburnt, why don't you try to explain what you mean instead of jumping all over us and calling us names? It was about the reasoning, not the items. Lighten up.

I stated earlier in the discussion that I wore my helmet. Did you forget to read that? I'm not trying to twist anyone's opinion to favor my ideals. You misunderstood my statements and flew off the handle for no reason.

You are correct dooman, I don't pay your premiums. But that's not what I said.

Insurance premiums and health care premiums are based on the costs required to "fix" someone. Those costs are shared by all of us who pay insurance. In the event of an accident, fixing a helmetless rider would likely cost more, no?

I guess there is the other side of the coin .... a helmetless rider is more likely to be killed, thus actually saving medical expences. I don't have the actuary numbers in front of me so I can't make that determination.

Whenever I do anything, I try to do it safely, but within reason. I wear my seatbelt when I drive, not because it's the law, but because it reduces my risk of injury without causing me any difficulty.

Yes, professional drivers / racers have been killed and injured despite all the safety precautions, BUT, they know and understand the risks, are paid to do it AND they all consider it a reasonable effort.

For those of you with children, do you want to see them in helmets when they ride their bikes and skateboards? Why? Cuz you want them to have fun, but you want them to be reasonably safe.

We were asked at the beginning of this thread for our opinion, mine is this;

I do believe that helmets save lives, reduce injury and should be mandatory.

“Without liberty, law loses its nature and its name, and becomes oppression. Without law, liberty also loses its nature and its name, and becomes licentiousness.” —James Wilson

It should be your choice! As for the insurance bill, helmet vs no helmet....I worked with a guy at GM back in the early 80's who ran up the 2nd highest bill in blue cross history at the time and he was wearing a helmet.

You're right Mike. Everyone pays for losses incurred by the insurance companies.

In some states the insurance companies will make a policy holder sign something saying that they will hold the insurance company harmless for any head injuries sustained while riding without a helmet. Not such a bad idea in my opinion.

I have always worn a seat belt while driving a car and I always will. Law or not. I have always worn a helmet while riding a motorcycle whether it was on the road or off. Law or not. I ride a sled with a helmet. Law or not. But I still believe that decisions of this type should be left up the the individual.

Of course, I would have my kids wear helmets while doing anything where a head injury could prevail. Do I think it should be law that they wear one while riding a bike or skateboarding? No, I don't. At some point, I believe there has to be separation between my private life and government control. I don't think that me being able to choose whether or not to wear a helmet during any activity is asking too much. But then I'm willing to accept the responsibility for my actions.

Good points on both sides Keith ... and I can see yours clearly. Not to turn this into a healthcare debate but I suppose some of us Canadians might be a little more supportive (or accepting of) helmet laws for a couple of reasons.

1) Helmets are mandatory for us, why should you guys get to have all the fun? (tongue firmly planted in cheek)

2) Due to our socialistic health care policies (incorrectly described as free health care) we pay for the maintenance, upkeep and care of all citizens in need, and our system is strained to the point where any injury can adversly affect the treatment of someone in need.

What about the point that some laws are created to protect those that are unable or unwilling to protect themselves?

Now Keith, you say you'd have your kids wear helmets, and you have already said that you always wear a seatbelt / helmet, law or not ... is the discussion here about being TOLD you must wear one? Being stripped of your right to choose? In theory, could we be talking about a law for or against chewing gum?

I guess what I'm saying / asking is; Is this a civil rights thread or a safety thread?

And snowmandp, I believe you and your recollection of this guy from the 80's, however, that would be the exception, not the rule. Every day there are hundreds of accidents where the wearing of seatbelts / helmets reduce or eliminate injury.

the costs of premiums are making the insurance companys filthy rich at this point in time so I see no connection to the right to choose and costs. michigan has much higher bike policy premiums than we do, in a state where we have the right to choose. I see your points MikeD and figured it was more the fact your mad you have lost that right :p ,to choose. being the topic was about the bikers protesting the "mandatory helmet law" I assume it about the right to choose. I am like idooski, I feel the government needs to spend more time fixing roads and schools and less time telling people how to ride and drive. I need not have a big brother to protect me, from me.

I do think there should be laws for children ( to wear a helmet ) until they become an adult and can understand there own decision, because we all know there are some parents out there, adults who can't care for themselves let alone make proper decision for there kids... kids need to be guided till they are old enough to understand.

As for the helmet law for myself....when I am in the country on a nice road with no traffic I like the freedom I feel with out wearing my helmet. As soon as I get into the racing feeling or traveling the highway with the rest of the world I feel more comfortable with a helmet as I trust no one>>> Or if I feel I am pushing the limit my helmet makes me feel safer.

When I ride my little 340 john deer in the field and hills I rarely wear my helmet.


Also as for Freezerburnt statement , I took it as the same meaning as Idooski said. So I guess I don't know why Freez said it was BS.
Zoom

Oh boy....I'm not always good at explaining but I will try.

First let me say this is in no way an attack on anyone in this thread. I hope you all know I mean that !

I would like to say I can relate to FB as he did to me... We read snofrogs response earlier differently than some of you did and I questioned the example snofrog used. I couldn't understand how you can relate riding anything to a helmet law because this thread was/is about helmet use on bikes and not wether to ban riding anything.

At that point Keith explained to me what snofrog meant. Obviously snofrog was making his example appear as ridiculous as he thought FB's comment was. I personaly didn't find FB's comment offensive about thinking about your children when putting on a helmet, and I didn't find it ridiculous either, but that's my opinion.

After that, I don't know what happend and this thread just exploded with negative stuff which was not good. I will say I do not think the word " retarded" is appropriate but I have said that before in other threads. ( Working with mentally challenged people makes me a little defensive I suppose.)

It is ok to have a different opinion than someone else, but when the slams begin and the negative reactions occur, a good thread can go south in a big hurry, which is exactly what happend.
I hated to see that happen but im thrilled to see this thread is back up and everyone is communicating without the negative stuff..

Remember: SWRules SWRules SWRules

Snow4

Now Keith, you say you'd have your kids wear helmets, and you have already said that you always wear a seatbelt / helmet, law or not ... is the discussion here about being TOLD you must wear one? Being stripped of your right to choose? In theory, could we be talking about a law for or against chewing gum?

I guess what I'm saying / asking is; Is this a civil rights thread or a safety thread?[/b]


Well, here are the questions posted originally by Snow4: "So what do you guys think? Should it be law that you must wear a helmet?" So in answer to your question, I guess that I would have to say that it's about both civil rights and safety. It depends entirely upon how any one person views the subject I think.

To me, personally, it's more a civil rights case than a case about safety. I've already stated that I think I should be responsible and I am responsible for my safety and the safety of others around me.

To me, personally, it's more a civil rights case than a case about safety. I've already stated that I think I should be responsible and I am responsible for my safety and the safety of others around me.[/b]
bingo

I see your points MikeD and figured it was more the fact your mad you have lost that right :p ,to choose.[/b]

Actually, we've never had that right, so I don't miss it, but from driving my convertible, or riding a horse, I can see how going helmetless would be a great feeling.

When I was 16 years old I got my first street bike. A driver ran a stop sign in front of me, entering the highway from my right. I T-boned the car at speed and after several in the air flips I landed on the back of my head / shoulder area. I wouldn't be here if it weren't for my full face helmet.

As with most here I'd never go without a helmet, regardless of the law, but I commend those of you defending your right to choose.

Threads like this is a large part of what makes this site such a great place, tons of members, different opinions and view points formed by various experiences and evironments ... keeps life interesting.

Take care everyone, and don't forget to snug up your chin strap ... hehe

When I was sixteen I hit a pedestrian running across the street to catch a bus, Luckily for her I only caught her purse( she was in the wrong cop gave her a ticket), bad luck for me I broke my leg. Just to say you never know.
I just think some laws are over rated. I would rather wear my helmet in traffic , cause you can't trust anyone other then yourself .