I'm sick and tired of all the hype about the f7 and how fast it is.Everywhere i go all i hear is how fast it is and how it's going to dominate everything at the drags.I like many other doo heads were i'm from are disapionted with how slow the mxz 800's are and we know they stand no chance against the f7's so our only hope lies with the the biggest badboy that bomber has ever built,the mighty MACHZ.Somebody please tell me that the MACH will still reign supreme,i couldn't stand it if she went down to a 700 twin and a cat at that.I think the MACH still has the magic,what do you guy's think

F-7='s mogal mashing beast, ZR900 ='s F-7 Predator. MachZ=King of the Lake,till the 900 shows up lol. F-7 is nice but I believe alot of people will get tired of the man handling required on long distance rides.
Caleb

You are asking this rhetorically, correct?

You have to be kidding! The Mach Z will dominate the F-7 on good hardpacked snow on lake. I have seen the F-7 run and it runs at the front of the 700 pack and in with the 800 twins. But, it is in no way a triple killer. To give it its due, it dominates the 700 class sleds, just like the Polaris 600 dominated the 600 class for the last few years.

0-100: F-7
100- on: MachZ

Watch this video and you tell me if the Mach Z still has the magic.

Pavement Drag -

Drag (http://www.off-road.com/snowmobile/multimedia/video/2002/npss/video10.wmv)

Just got back from the local drags. Lets just say the Mach is still the king. The f7 ran good for a 700 but no match, for the mach. Then came the high dollar overpriced sleds, RX1 what anticipation i could hardly stand it, you guessed it the mach ate him for lunch. Then the zr900 this sled gave the mach the best run but still came up short. These were all stock sleds straight out of the box. Granted the suspension on the mach could use some help but never bet against a mach, unless you just feel generous. This is hot off the grass no hype just the facts weather you like it or not. Oh yea that was 1000ft. any less is a waste of gas. IMO. :p

Amen...The MACH still has the magic,i knew she wouldn't let us down,and i agree anything under 1000ft is a waist of time.

lol..........hehehe im shure we are going to hear a bunch of no way and not where im from but the fact remains the machz is the big boy of the boyz club.............hehehehe :devil:

Nothing will ever touch the Mach both in racing and in legend... :inlove:

From what I have expereinced the F7s haven't been doing that well. So many people seem to watch the local grass drags. Those types of events are always biased because there is always a better showing from one particular brand. The best place to look is the haydays because everybody who is anybody is there. Its a showing of the best of the best and thats where the results are going to be. The firecats are nowhere to be found in the results...did they even run them at the haydays or did they not make it to the finals?

the F7's and F5's couldn't run at hayday because there weren't even in production yet, however cat did have four or five F7's there which they had an exhibition run with. according to those results the F7 ran some incredibile times and the sleds were teched just like everyother sled that was there competing. according to greg spaulding the sleds were not tweaked to produce a better showing but who knows for sure anyway..

anyhow the best time for the F7 was a 5.366 at 90mph campare that to the REV 800 which ran a 5.5-5.6 at 84 mph it looks like the REV comes out of the gate hard but the F7 really reals it in in the mid-range and on top

I'm a cat man for the most part and will say there is no way an F7 will hang with a mach in anything over 660'. Some tweaked F7s may be able to hang with it to around 100mph but then that where the 3x3 just starts to stretch its legs.haha
BTW what was that mach racing agianst in that clip? Looked kinda like a poo, but he blew by it so fast it was hard to get a good look!! :nervous:

THE TIMES AND SPEEDS AT HAYDAY'S WERE A LITTLE DECIEVING, THE F7'S ACTUALLY STARTED ABOUT 15 TO 20 FT. BEHIND THE STARTING LINE BECAUSE THEY DID'NT WANT EXIBITION RUNS TEARING UP THE START LINE, SO ACTUALLY THEY ENDED UP GETTING A ROLLING START. THATS WHERE THE EXTRA SPEED AND LOWER ET. CAME FROM. THEY WERE STILL FAST BUT PROBABLY CLOSER TO REV 600 HO.S

well i can believe the F7 beating the MXZ800 or REV800, doo's twins arent made for top end.

... and Artic-Cat is supposedly running radio commercials on how the F7 dominated HayDays... hmmm.

Up to 60mph, the F7. After that, I would have to say all Mach Z. They are really two different animals. The F7 is quick, but an all out muscle sled its not. It will make a great trail sled, and will do well in grass drags in the 700 and 800 classes.

In 500` with sleds set up by people in the know there is no match, the f7 will take it. Now on the other hand if its less than world class tuners then its a toss up, and yes I`m a doo guy......read it and weep.. Stock machs well prepped run 5.5`s a well prepped f 7 will run 5.4`s, thats true, almost unbeleivable , but true, almost like a budwieser commercial..

If the F-7's run like the one at our local drags a couple weeks ago the Mach could pull a plug and still beat it!
It was barely beating 600 mxz's and xc's

lol.........marketing boyz marketing.............lmao :p :withstupid:

Here is my take on this from running with the Mach for three years. In testing, I have found that 90% of all of the Mach Zs problems are lack of traction. The track with .880 lugs does not hook up. You have two options, either a ton of studs or a 1.25 inch track. If your running in snow or hardpacked snow the 1.25 would really hook up, if your on ice then ice picks would be needed. Bottom line is this. A sled with a 1 inch or 1.25 track will stomp the Mach almost every time in a 500 foot race. Simple lack of traction. Put a 1.25 on the Mach and it will devastate everything out there. I have a friend with a 500 Polaris Classic twin that can pull me to 60 mph (snow) on the trail. But when I finally do hookup, I go by him like he hit the brakes. When I get on hard packed snow on a lake, then I can hookup and beat just about any stock sled. (Mine is stock). My next modification will be the Camoplast 9854 1.25 inch track. Studs just don't do enough on the trails for traction unless your running so many that you lose a bunch of top end. I'm not really impressed with studs for trail use at the moment. This year will be interesting as I will run the whole year with studs. I'll see if it really helps.

You are absolutly correct,any of you guys that have mach's and want to mod it the very first mod should be a 1.25 track.Why mod it to make more power when all you will do is get even more track spin.You need to get that beast hooked up,i put one on mine last winter and wow i couldnt believe the difference.The old girl would stomp all over the lighter and suposedly guicker twins,i beat zr800's that also had 1.25 track's.this is an absolute must for the mach you will not regret it.

You think an 1 1/4 track hooks go 1 1/2 and see what happens! Is a whole new beast again! Studs, huh, leave them for the lakes!

P.S. I was a 'die hard' stud man until I finally got talked into
a paddle, will I ever go back? Not'a chance!!!!!!!!! ;)

I don't run the Mach Z, but I do run my '97 Mach 1, which is trail ported, shaved head, v-force II's, stock pipes and B&B muffler. I still have a 121" X 0.5" track on it with 128, 1" trail studs to run in the fields before I change it to my 136" X 1.25" track for the winter. I will be going out in the field to do some 400'- 700' drags this afternoon and tomorrow against a stock F7, '03 SKS 700, and other older modified sleds and possibly a ZR 900 and other new sleds.
I'm also anxious to see these new sleds run. I will post results tomorrow night !

Well, did some light snow and frozen ground drags in field today. Ran against F7, ZR900, '03 SKS 700 and other non-current sleds. I was radared the fastest in the 450' we were running, at 81mph. I was running my Mach1 with above post mods. Studded sleds had big advantage as stock tracks & paddle tracks just spun. From dead start I'd pull 1 length on F7 which he would make up at 60mph, then we'd stay even 'til shutdown. From a 20mph roll-on with F7, I'd fall back 1 length, then we'd stay even. From dead start with ZR 900 (which was studded), I'd usually jump half to one length ahead, then he would slowly catch and pass me from 50-80mph, with me finishing half to 1 sled behind. On a 20mph roll-on with '03 SKS 700, I was barely pulling away (maybe 1 length in 400'). That SKS 700 ran against an RX1 in the same field yesterday was about even with it on roll-ons but beat the RX1 from a dead start. ZR900 (1" studded) against F7 (1.25" unstudded), had the ZR900 slowly pulling away. I am very impressed with the new sleds, but am not anxious to run them this winter, once they are on snow ,broken-in and loosened up.
Following are some of todays' pics.

F7 doing a run alone (notice grass roost).

F7 vs. ZR 900 start.

Same race at about 100', F7 vs. ZR900.

This mechanic can't believe that this new F7 demo. can't blow away a '97 Mach 1.
I say don't mess with a well tuned tripple when running in a straight line.
I must admit though, the F7 is an awesome looking sled.

Last one, ZR 900 vs. '03 SKS 700 from dead start.
Studded ZR 900 wins.

Where's the snow? A Mach-Z snowblow it before your run!!!!

Bye! Z36Qc :p

Nice pics, you guys must be haveing a blast out there.We have been raceing too ,the old mach is running strong this year.I cant wait to race an f7 nobody has one up here yet,my buddy has one comeing so when he gets it we'll do battle.

Hey Limskii, Now look who should have called in sick, going to run the rev against the gade today in the same field, only now there's snow on it. I will let you know how it go's.
P.S everything that Limskii tells you guy's is Bull Sh..........
(just kidding) :hallo1:

Be careful what you say kennypope, cause once I put my long track on, I might even put my third spark plug in and then I'll be razzing you all winter :D

Do you try to do some drag racing in reverse gear ? I would like to know who is the winner!!!! ;) :D

I should be able to DOO some short drags (450-500') against that kennypopes' new REV 800 with a 1.25" track on Saturday if it doesn't rain. These races will be in the same field I ran in last weekend, but I will be at a slight disadvantage this weekend as we have about 5-6" of snow now. I'm still only running my 0.5" track with 128, 1" studs, but I think I could still get the bugger in 450'. I'll post the results Sat. or Sun.

Boy's i hate to say it but that F7 is going to give the big Z all she can handle and then some, i couldn't believe how fast they are. It will take a well tuned sled to beat it in 500ft.

Nobody has mentioned the smoke the Firecat is emitting, it's not even jetted down yet.

i don't think thats smoke. he is in all the shots and there is no smoke on the one with the grass rooster.
from the pic it looks like it was one of the first runs and that is probably snow dust.
if that was smoke and that heavy then i would have expected to see it in all them but you don't.

That F7 I posted in those pics. last weekend only had 0.4 miles on it when they brought it to the field. As for jetting it down, won't happen, as the F7's are EFI. This one had a 1.25" track and was very impressive in the field. I don't recall seing much smoke from it, although it was running with some premixed oil for break-in.
Hope this helps !

Well I did my runs against kennypopes Rev 800 (1.25" track), my other buddies' '03 SKS 700, a '97 ZRT 800 ( 1050 kit ? + 1.25" track), and a '93 T-Cat 1005cc (ported, piped with 1.5" track). Overall, I would mostly launch ahead then slowly get run down and past by all these machines, exept for the '93 T-Cat, he blew by me. I was able to get ahead of kennypopes' Rev a couple of runs and hold him off, but most runs he took off with or ahead and kept pulling (I'm not anxious for his chip to break-in). Here's a few pics.
Here's me and kennypope on takeoff, he ends up passing me in the mid.

Here's the Rev outpulling me in the mid.

SKS 700 and me through the mid. with him creeping by.

Last one, SKS got me off the line and slowly pulled away.

limskii,did you get any time on the rev?

Limskii you should put your 1.25 lug track on and then race them
it seems you are at a big disadvantage with the track and studs you are running. what kind of set up are you running what rpms are you running.
I also have a mach1 trail ported crankshop pipes v-reeds 1" track with 240 studs spins like hell thats why iam putting on a 1 3/8 high lug track and it would run with my buddys machz but he sold it and got out of snowmobiling

hey buddy howz it going......it was a good day. like we were talking with your track for today u did have a big disadvantage a little too much snow but still pulling hard and im shur as for when u install your rail ext. and new track you will be very stong for the drags.as for the f7 i did not see it run but i do know the guy that was running it . he is a good guy and VERY competitive.hehehe. thats why i like him not that im competitive.......lol. but he would have had it set up before dropping it off out there.

oh by the way what is the zrt now? he did tell me it was the 1000 cylinders and was not stock but was just wondering what it is?

This is a funny comparison, it's like comparing a formula 1 car to a top fuel dragster, they are both the top of the game, but they play a different game. :)

Panteraone, I'm not sure what you mean, but I was able to beat the Rev once or twice if I got a real good holeshot on the grass, but he was always coming to get me. mach 1, I wanted to change tracks for the weekend, but was too lazy (nightshifts doo that to me). As for setup, trail ported, head shaved, v-force II's, stock pipes, B&B muffler, 25-44 gearing, 286 ramps @ #3, 20.5g pins, 230-320 primary spring, 46 black ice cam, beige spring @ b-6 (22lbs), bomb. 067 belt, and run @ 8100-8300 rpm.
I dynoed it at 135 h.p. and 85ft/lbs. torque @ 8250rpm last winter on my buddies' Land & Sea dyno ( that was at +1C, with trail jetting & hot pipes & engine). I found it low, but on a warmed up stock T-Cat 1000, he only gets 151 h.p., just to put things in perspective. machz69, that '97 ZRT 800, is running the stock 800 bottom end with the 1000 pistons & cyls., which gives him a long stroke 1000 (I thought it was 1050cc ?).
I wish I could type, cause this post took me ten minutes to type.
Hope this helps !

limskii...i was wondering if you had a chance to ride the rev,and your impressions of it :D

Limskii is too haywire to try my Rev! but I can tell you from just trying it in the field so far that I love it feels incredibly light and nibble corners better that anything that I have ever driven before, even with a max weight transfer set up. Put about 75km's so far, and its no slouch in a straight line. Limskii has a quick Mach 1 and it run's with it even before the chip is burnt out. P.S Limskii thanks for the favourable pictures, I'm sure there were some of you smoking me out of the hole that you could have put on. Also you shouldn't give away all your secrets..... I know you didn't last season when you snuck on a 1.25" sneaker! P.S this took me less than 2 minutes to type (quick on the keyboard quick in the field) :blahblah:

limskii have you tried to lower the pin weight a little and lower your clicker down to 1 or 2 that seems like alot of pin weight. have you had your tach checked mine was off by 300 rpm on the low side so when i was running 8600 i was only running 8300.
hear is what iam running.my sled was dynoed at 150 hp and 92 ft
lbs of torque on a warm engine cold engine 155 & 95 and i will be putting on a head kit this year

185-410 primary spring
modified 228 ramps (lower engagement 4200 rpm)
18.5 pin weight
clicker #3

beige spring at 23 lbs b4
50-36 ski-doo helix

You guys are killing me! I just bought a mach 1 and now I am reading that I can't beat anything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :nervous: :nervous: Noooo!

kenny.. glad to hear you like your rev so far :) i hope i can get some time on one this winter

Mach all the way :hallo1:

lol...well i was at the field today and there was a mxz8 and a rev8 and an rx1 and a srx .now the only one with studs was the mxz8 all others has an 1.25 and i have to say it was the rx1 all the way. the mxz8 would pull out about 3 lengths then the rx1 would just smoke past. the rest would just stay behind the mxz. so i guess we will have to see what winter bringz.........ps.. limskii i checked out the adjustable pins and they go up to 24.4g or close to it. but i still might come see yah

Hey kennypope, I did put the better pics., but would have liked to be able to post the best pic. of the day, with you stuck in the ditch, but you seemed kind of in a rush to get out when everyone told you I was going to get my camera.
(I guess your quick on the keyboard, quick in the field and quick out of the ditch when Limskii's getting the camera). :D ;) :p

ya I guess that's the best picture that never got took!, but someone has to be the last on the brakes! :doh:

I guess the rx1 had a pretty good advantage when it's 10c over 2 strokers, didn't think anyone would run in the field in weather like that!

I heard that the 03 rev had something on it that wont let it run full speed until you hit the break in of 300 miles. But I guess thats a bunch a B.S.

No it's true all new bomb's have a chip in the computers to retrard the timming, it takes approx 4hr's of running to burn out the chip, it varies from sled to sled.

do u notice any performance gains when the chip burns out?? i have 800 miles on my mxz, and i havent noticed anything.

I noticed a considerable gain in my renegade 800 last year when i reached the 400 km's mark when i lined up with my brother previous to this point he would beat me (01 mxz 800) neither of us changed anything on our sleds, afterwards when we lined up I would jump out ahead of him and hold him off for at least 1000 ft.

no there is a chip that doesjust what kenny says. when mine reached the hours i did know cause on mine anyways it did a little pop sound like a small backfire while i was ridding so i stopped. then i realised it had been this many hours. 4hours is a long time....lol. but me personaly i did not nottice any big gains. ;)

Hey Limskii, were did you go. Did you run the F-7 last night, or at least find out how Mr. Clean did against it. :sleeping:

kennypope, I couldn't go last night as I'm in the middle of longtracking & extending my tunnel. Mr. Clean told my that he is very impressed with the F7. The F7 was the quickest sled there (2- 2003 ZR 900 (one studded, one not), and Mr.Clean's '03 SKS 700. He told me that he was almost always jumping out in front with his SKS, but would often get caught by the ZR 900's and always get caught and past by the F7 in the 1000'-1200' they were running. He also told me the F7 has awesome midrange pull (always outpulling the 900's). They were also radared in that distance, the F7 and the non-studded ZR 900 hit 102mph, and the studded ZR 900 hit 98mph, but the F7 always got there first (very impressive sled).
See ya later !

Hey Limskii, gonna have the mach ready for some running this weekend? If so let me know can come out for alittle while, cause i'm night shift. Here's what happens when your not carefull :hallo1:

opps

Hey Limskii nice hair cut!

Thanks kennypope ! I got my head shaved bald when I wasn't looking, but was definitely nice to have when I had to clean myself out of a sink for 2 months ( kinda gave me a feeling of how it was to wash when my parents were kids). As for doing some runs this weekend, I hope to maybe go out Sunday if I find out where that black F7 is running to see how far behind I am. I will call you if I'm ready on Sunday (around 8:30 am , Ha! Ha!).

Hey Limskii i will be ready anytime will probably sneak out early sunday morning, we could run the lakes now i think -24c right now :0:

Hey Limskii thanks for the nice pics. It's nice to read the updates of how the different sleds are running, but to see actual "footage" of the action is truly the ba!!s. Keep that camera handy.

As far as the F7 - I saw them run in Greenville NY. in the NEGDS / ISR event. When those things are well clutched and tuned look out. Here in the Northeast grass circuit Bill Bickford (Chris A. - Driver) and Randy Paquette are the top dogs in the stock classes. They race SKIDOO in all stock classes. These guys win almost every stock class at all the events. However, when the competition from the west arrived (Kelly Shilts and Glenn Hall) on their snorting F7s the stock 700 Doos were no match. Those 'stray cats' won the 700 single pipe, 700 triple, and the 800 triple classes!
I was impressed by the F7 - it beat the MACH and XCR The DOOS still won the 440, 500, 600s, 600 triple, and 800 twin classes. If the race was longer than the 500 ft. the MACH would have taken it because the final speed was 91 mph for the F7 and 95mph for the MACH. The F7 simply has better low + mid range acceleration.
Nice to see your MACH Dinosaurus still holding its own with the new iron.

Those so called snorting F-7's are a little Better (If you know what I mean) than a factory delivered sled. :angry:

I wonder how fast the big Mach Z would be if bomber made it fuel injected, what do you boy's think.