Xtra-10 Settings?

[Popeye]

I have a 97 xcr600se with about 4500mi and seem to have trouble getting traction on anything other than hardpack trails. Even on that, I can't even squeak any daylight under the skis. Sled runs awesome, no bogs, just seems to be poor weight transfer or something. I have 144 studs, have the frss in the high setting on the only hole available. The rrss is in the low setting in the forward set of holes. The rear limiter strap is about 1/4" from maxed out and the fronts are about 1/2" from maxed out. The front skid shock has the spring less than half way up the available adjustment area. I was thinking about moving the rrss into the rearward set of holes and lengthening the front straps. I elongated the holes for the shock pivot / inner idlers so I have the skid out to repair the holes and will get the shocks rebuilt since I am going through the trouble. Before I wore out my carbides on the plowed fields of Wisconsin, it did seem to corner fine, so preload is ok for now. By making the adjustments I mentioned, am I on track to get more hookup or transfer? I was also going to step up to the larger torsion springs since I weigh 230 and they are the originals. I assume I will have pushing problems if I make any adjustments to the front spring and straps? Can ski spring preload help compensate? From what I understand and have seen in this forum, the rrss moving to the rear holes should help, or have I been mislead? Any help is greatly appreciated.

By the way, now that my sled is tore apart we will probably get some snow for once this year in North Eastern Wisconsin. Conditions here are partly to mostly crappy for trail riding.

[Xc Special]

rrss rear hole,set on low,or remove them altogether,front straps long as possible,your rear suspension springs might be set to high,sounds like you have enough f.skid shock pressure,loosen front ski shock pressure.

if it was cornering fine before,it won,t if your looking for transfer,hard to have both,

[Sled Dogg]

YOU ALSO DO NOT WANT SKI LIFT!!!!!! you want to hook and go straight not lift the ski's. Thats the biggest misconception. You can stand any sled on end if you truelly wanted to but it won't win the race.

[Popeye]

I realize that ski lift is bad and that is not what I'm looking for. More traction so that I'm not as loose as I currently am on a groomed trail is my goal. I'm getting my shocks rebuilt since I have it apart. Could that also be a factor in the weight transfer issue? For aggressive trail riding do I want to couple the rear suspension sooner or later? Frss on high would be sooner correct? Is there any advantage in my situation to going with the heavier torsion springs and running the tension on the low setting? I currently run on medium to high depending on where I will be riding.

Thanks so far!

[madsledhead]

You want wieght transfer - I'll get you some.

I know alot about those xcr's.

Set your front limiters high, 1/4 inch thread showing
Front shock - set circlip to 2nd, or 3rd ring from the top
Frss set on high
Rear spring preload to low
RRSS blocks to low and move them to the lower hole

You need to have the back end of the skid light to get maximum pivot.

But, you know what, you will have the slowest running XCR around.

Been there - done that.

These aggressive chassis XCR's can be the fastest thing on snow with proper set-up. I just came back from 1 week up north running faster than 600 ho REVs.

The key to these chassis is the weight of the front end and the CRC front steering. When well set-up you can corner well over 65mph and still stay flat as a rock!

While your twisting down the stretches, the Bombardiers are fighting inside ski lift and risking roll-overs.

Proof to this, 1 MXZ REV had a roll-over at speeds that I found really easy to turn, and a s-chassis MXZ flipped twice that week at low speeds.
But - to each their own

[Popeye]

Madsledhead,

I assume the recipe you gave me is for maximum transfer? In your opinion, where is a good starting point (specific settings) for a compromise between weight transfer and handling / cornering? I realize you can't have the best of both worlds, but from what I hear about these sleds there has to be a better setup than what I have without upgrading sleds.

[madsledhead]

been thinking about your problem for a while, and can't really think of a good set-up.

-If you go too light on the coil spring, your going to bottom out.
-If you keep the Frss on high, the small stutter bumps are going to pile drive your spine
- If you tighten up on the front shock spring your going to have trouble cornering.

I think your best bet is to try Frss high, torsion at low, and rrss at lowest position. Do this with your front preload at about 1/2 and limiters all the way up.

If it's too choppy, lower the Frss.

Sorry I can't help more.

Just a thought, Al mickahicks is probably the most knowledgable person I have discussed suspension tuning with on this site. Maybe he can set you up better.

Good luck!

[ebgb68]

I've been watching this post because I have the same sled.
I went to Grayling last weekend and my back is still sore.
I haven't touched anything because I wanted some miles first. I have access to a pps shock but is this the way to go? I'm about 90% trail so I want to tune for that.
If you tuners have any advice I would greatly appreciate any help you can give
Thanks
Here's a link on the xtra10
http://www.off-road.com/snowmobile/info/ho...ffle/index.html

[Popeye]

I read the link that ebgb68 posted and found it interesting. I've found that the more you remove your skid the easier it gets and I guess if I tried what the article suggests I could always go back since I'm getting better at it. I am worried about running my torsion springs on low, but I have new ones on order so that may help. As I ripped apart the skid to get the shocks out I was wondering what the upper front shock mount was for and that article explained it somewhat. I also noticed that the front torque arm tube that has the shock swing arm mounted to the rearward area of it (assembled before welding at the factory) has a crack through the entire diameter of the tube. I work at Miller Electric and am surrounded by welders all day, but since the part is basically in half and the crack is under the swinging arm portion, I will forego the cheap fix and order a new part. Between the shocks, worn springs, and busted parts, it is a mystery that the thing moved at all. Thanks for all your help on this. Any further thoughts or comments are welcome. Madsledhead, I hope my problems don't drive you mad during the day! Thanks.

[michahicks]

Mad,
Your note the other day with the settings you were running, after messing around with it for a weekend,
caused a major change in my previous line of thought.
I was at a dead end, and facing some rough trails last weekend. Took your settings/logic and transfered them to my '02 XC8. In short, after a little tweaking, I couldn't believe I was on the same sled.

Popeye,
We have a 230 lb experienced rider that runs with us on a 98 700 XCR. Very good driver. We are messing with the settings on his sled, using lessons learned from above. So we only have the one weekend (500 miles) of tweaking with it. Our main plan is very high performance trail use. This will cause all compromises to be slanted towards positive handling first. In other words, the front end needs to be planted first, then everything else follows. Settings in use as of now:

He is also running 144 1" studs

Polaris metal EZ-Steer kit in place, using 6" carbides.

IFS springs set tight enough to prevent rattle with no weight on the front end(sled on it's side) -in other words, very little pre-load.

Same story on front rear suspension spring, very little preload. Personnal taste here. Obviously slanted in this case towards the positive front end. Steering on straights sensitive.

Front straps have 1/4" threads showing, we'll be changing that to 1 full thread.

Rear straps removed completely

FRSS low, RRSS front hole, medium, higher in the rough.

HD torsion springs installed, on medium

He's now reporting no (or VERY little) ski lift in corners, good traction, neutral handling in corners (machine will fade to the outside under hard acceleration). Firm, but comfortable ride in Saturday afternoon stuff. Not the bone jarring we had previously. We are working on the firm part now.

Hope this helps, and thanks for the ideas Madsledhead.
I think you're the one with the knowledge here...

AL