Sled Class

[rob7374]

So it seems that I no longer own a 600cc class sled. The marketing wizards at Yamaha and some of the magazines have now changed or at least are attempting to change the class of each sled based on the sleds available horsepower. So my REV 600 H.O. is no longer a 600cc sled but now falls into the 120 horsepower sled category. Hmmm. Well this is indeed interesting and where do you draw the line on a class based on horsepower. I guess we are moving the same way as outdoard engines. So I decided to look back over some old dyno runs in the magazines and horsepower claims that the manufactures have come out with.

Since i own a 600 I will use that so called 120 horsepower mark. Certainly the 600 H.O. from BRP is close ( providing it has good rings ) at somewhere around 114-117 h.p. depending on whose dyno numbers you believe.

What about the Liberty 600 VES from Poo. Yep it's up there as well. Cats 600 certainly falls in there at just over the 600H.O.'s numbers.

What about the 660 Turbo from Cat. Yep it's in there as well.

Then we have the new 3 cylinder 4 stroke from Yammy which falls in at the 120 h.p. mark.

What about the Redline 800. it showed up on someones dyno with a pull of about 114 or so. Guess it's in there as well although maybe that engine was off or something.

Would BRP's old 700 fall in here as well since it only had about 122-124 h.p. Maybe. Looking at the 120 h.p. class there seems to be a variety of sleds. But it's a little misleading. With 120 h.p. the Yammy should be at the top of the class right ? But it's close to 1000cc's. Does that seem right? Technically it should beat a 600H.O. or Poo 600 right. On paper yes if we look at h.p. numbers. It may even win an impromptu drag race or two. But lets not forget about the extra bulk of the Yammy or the 660 Turbo. In the real world it plays a major role.

Ah but you a REV 600, Edge 600 or F6 is in a different class as they are ditch bangers. Well no they are in the 120 h.p. class so why not compare. Can we throw in the 600H.O. Snow hawk since it uses the same engine as the Doo's?

What about the 140 h.p. class that Yammy wants the RX 1 to be recognized in. Whats it got for competition. Well lets see. The ZR 9 has just over 140 horse so I guess it's in. Independent dyno runs claim the Poo 900 hits about 149 ponies. Guess it's too high and falls into the 150 horse class. No Mach 'cause its around 165 horsies or so BRP is telling us. Guess like the Fusion in gets it's own class.

Hey what about the 800H.O. from BRP? It's close at the high 130's.

How about the 700 from Cat? Hmm. Early reports on the 03's showed close to 140 ponies but that later fell to closer to the low to mid 130's. Ah lets throw it in there as well.

How about the 800 from Poo? Hmm. Some reports showed it as low as the high 120's and others have shown it at close to mid 130's or there about.

Here in lies another problem. When Yammy pulled the cover off the RX 1 with it's R1 street bike derived 4 cylinder 4 stroke it claimed it was faster than the competitions 800 cc sleds. Yet at the same time did not want to be compared to them because according to Yammy it was not in the same class as the others. Huh. So you say it is faster but lets not compare. Ok lets compare it to the ZR 9. anyone who has witnessed a ZR 9 running up against an RX 1 knows the Yammy is a strong runner but not a major threat. But it's in the same horsepower class right ? Hey I have even seen a standard F7 pull the same mph numbers on radar as an RX 1. Both were stock and both hit 117 mph. Guess who got there faster though. Ya the F7. Not sure what I'm trying to get at here just ranting a bit cause I think this is really strange. Sure the Vector is nice at 120 horsepower and is a greAt trail cruiser. But so was my buddies F111 and got almost the same fuel milage ( actually cheaper ) than an RX 1 that was with us. Hmm. Go figure. Close to the same weight as well.

Maybe the classes should be more defined based off of the manufactures intended use of that sled. Classes like high performance, high performance trail, trail, touring, luxury touring....hey wait they used to use those. Maybe ISR rules should state horsepower for each class not cc's. Will the WSA now start running snow cross class's based off of h.p.'s What the heck do you do in the mod class ? Oh well. The weather sucks and so does work. I'm bored as hell.

[spikegary]

Yeah, I noted that in Snowmobiler's 05 buyers guide. Didn't know exactly what they were talking about until I read into the story. I was thinking my little princess's Z-120..........

[team old iron]

do you have any free time?

[spikegary]

Who?

[FASTBLACK800CAT]

Rob7374.....That's way too funny!!!!! I also noticed the recent HP rating "fad".....It will pass. The manufactures tend to change their stated hp soon after their initial ADVERTISING anyway!!!!

[dawg]

i havnt seen this article but from what rob said, its yamaha that has started this up? what a surprise, of course they want every sled to be classed into hp instead of cc. they are just still pissed that most (not all) but most of there sleds have been under power and not putting out the #'s that the competions sleds have been putting out with the same cc's. I guess they are tired of there stock rx1's having a hard time beating our little firecat's and rev's.

But now that i think about it, back in the day before i was born, wasnt some of the sleds measuer in hp, like the old sno jets?

great job rob....

[freakshow12]

even the old doos were rated in hp I think. the blizzards came in 55,75 and 9500. which I believe was teh hp rating was it not? yammi just wants to stir the pot and it seems to be working. I have run a few rx owners with my "little" 800 rev and they figure they will smoke me across the lake! they get upset when I get to the other end and outhandle them through the trails too

[The Hossman]

Rob,

I think your last few statements sum it all up. I was reading through your post and trying to figure out exactly what was wrong, and had you so revved up.... I'm still not sure. What's wrong with classifying machines by HP??? Of course Yamaha would prefer that insurance companies start doing this, otherwise RX-1 owners are getting screwed... especially if you believe the myth (myth means fiction) that they can't beat a 800 twin across a lake... But seriously, with all the upcoming changes and varieties of powerplants, it might make more sense.... no?

It certainly makes no sense to compare (for example), a 1000cc RX-1 to a 1000cc Mach Z, right??

Certainly if anyone has the balls to send a 4-stroke out onto a snow-cross circuit, these machines are going to have to be 'sized' according to horsepower, not displacement, just like moto-cross. The day's coming...

[WKinneIII]

Gotta agrre with hossman on this one. As far as fairness goes they all should be in HP classes. I see no fun in throwing a 600cc with 130 hp up against a 600cc with 110hp. It makes no sense. Sounds like they are moving to a more fair class system. Why are you upset anyhow? And as for 800 twins smoking RX1's I must be in the wrong part of the world cuase around here 800 twins aren't even a challange. last year only the ZR9 was a threat (that race goes back and forth) I would actually prefer they class sleds by HP it lets you know what yer getting for yer money a little better, Heck class them by 660, and 1000ft times, even better.
Wayne
P.S. where did you find the HP numbers, I have been lookin around for some and come up with nothing.

[Spaceman]

I must admit that when I got the Yammi dvd this spring and they coined 120 class, 140 class. I thought, why are they trying to change the way we class sleds. But if you think about it, if a 2 stroke is an apple and a 4stroke is an orange how do you compare??? I guess it makes sense.HP is Hp.
Only thing is....now we will be talking Ft.lbs. of torque next. AAAHHH, the changing world we live in!!!