Traction Advice

[fast426]

I recently purchased a speed track for my ZRT Big Bore (992). It has 336 holes (7 in each lug). I have more than enough 1" picks for all the holes, and I have about 100 chisels. I am wondering how I should set it up. Should I use all picks or put some chisels mixed in there? If I use the chisels at what locations should they be? Should I get more chisels? I will be racing mainly at Anchor Bay and Houthon Lake. Do I need that many even?

Also when I have this on there can I drive it up on the trailer from the cemt floor of the garage? Will I ruin the picks/chisels doing this?
Thanks

[onebad800]

if its 121" , then put in 192 about half and half chisels in the middle

[fast426]

Do I put the chisles next to the picks, or do I alternate lugs? Should I keep any on the outside? Thanks

[6]

What's the lug height of the track?

I would go with 240 ice picks, period. Don't waste your time with the chisels. Directional studs are a pain to install and maintain. And they don't do nearly what they claim.

You may be a little light on penetration though depending on the lug height you bought. Also, what year is the sled?

[fast426]

It is 121"

It is a camoplast speed track with 1/2" lugs. The picks (and chisels) are 1". This seems goood, is it? The holes are four in each middle of the lug, and 2 on one outer edge and 1 one the other edge (this alternates every lug). Should I just use one pick in each outer lug and four in each middle? Would it hurt me to use the chisles anywhere? Thanks
One more thing I noticed thed clips do not have any guides, it is correct? Thanks

[6]

Originally posted by fast426@Aug 20 2005, 10:22 AM
It is 121"

It is a camoplast speed track with 1/2" lugs.* The picks (and chisels) are 1".* This seems goood, is it?* The holes are four in each middle of the lug, and 2 on one outer edge and 1 one the other edge (this alternates every lug).* Should I just use one pick in each outer lug and four in each middle?* Would it hurt me to use the chisles anywhere?* Thanks
One more thing I noticed thed clips do not have any guides, it is correct?* Thanks

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Your penetration should be ok. I don't know the year of your sled so I cannot say whether or not you could run 1.2".

My 1100 runs 1.2" Woodys 30 deg steel ice picks on a non-predrilled speed track (Camoplast Predator 1/2" - 121). I used a standard 240 pattern and saved face on the outer belts in order to improve durability. Stud pullout has the highest likelihood in the outer area, so be careful putting them too close to the edge. The 240 pattern promises 20 scratch lines, but I could realistically see about 16 since I was not pushing my luck in the outer areas.

My track:



Every lug should use 5 studs, alternating in the outer area. See the attached pattern. I realize you might not be able to stagger, but hopefully you can.



The biggest mistake I see people make is that they spend all this time putting in studs, but make little REAL effort to keep the sled down. A 2 foot rise in the front skis takes about 60% of your planted studs off the ice.

What are you doing to keep the front end down? What horsepower do you estimate you have?

You should take an image of your track so we can see the clips and the holes drilled.

[fast426]

Well The sled is a 2000 ZRT800. I have a 1.25 inch with 1.375 trail studs right now. Stock suspension. Last year I had it bored/ported to 992. I estimate aroutrnd 200 HP as is, but I am hoping to add about 10 or so this year. My next questions were going to be about strapping down the back, should I be more concerned with front? I will take a pic of the track. Thanks

[6]

Originally posted by fast426@Aug 20 2005, 04:22 PM
Well The sled is a 2000 ZRT800.* I have a 1.25 inch with 1.375 trail studs right now.* Stock suspension.* Last year I had it bored/ported to 992.* I estimate aroutrnd 200 HP as is, but I am hoping to add about 10 or so this year.* My next questions were going to be about strapping down the back, should I be more concerned with front?* I will take a pic of the track.* Thanks

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You could have used 1.2s, but I suppose that is hindsight.

Keep in mind that ice traction is different than standard studding. Leave the chisels off the track. Again, they are a huge pain in the ass due to their "directional" nature and clearly do not live up to their hype.

You'll need to start with securing the front suspension first as it is the easiest to do. Look at the image below of my front suspension. Some people use chain, some use straps. I chose to use 3/8" cable with a turnbuckle near the bottom to give clearance without it hitting the shock.



I can tell you though that you will still not get proper traction with just the front tied down if your engine build is even somewhat decent. You'll need to do something to set proper weight transfer along with some type of way to limit it.

A secret for racers is to tie down the rear skid to where they want it, then mark the two rear shocks with something like a wire tie. Then remove the skid, remove the shocks, send them out and have them rebuilt but with spacers in them to restrict their reach. This will in effect mimmick a Wahl type suspension. I can't quite remember what I used but I think it was a 1.5" spacer in the front most shock of the skid and 1.75" in the far rear. Don't quote me on those numbers though.

BTW, to answer your first question, steel ice picks should not touch anything other than grass or ice. Anything else will cause damage. NEVER take the sled across a garage floor, driveway, or trail. Spinning the tgrack on a trail will roll the tips. It is absolutely CRUCIAL to keep these studs as sharp as possible and you will do well with buying a 30 deg sharpener.

[fast426]

Originally posted by SWWebmaster@Aug 21 2005, 12:20 PM


A secret for racers is to tie down the rear skid to where they want it, then mark the two rear shocks with something like a wire tie. Then remove the skid, remove the shocks, send them out and have them rebuilt but with spacers in them to restrict their reach. This will in effect mimmick a Wahl type suspension. I can't quite remember what I used but I think it was a 1.5" spacer in the front most shock of the skid and 1.75" in the far rear. Don't quote me on those numbers though.

BTW, to answer your first question, steel ice picks should not touch anything other than grass or ice. Anything else will cause damage. NEVER take the sled across a garage floor, driveway, or trail. Spinning the tgrack on a trail will roll the tips. It is absolutely CRUCIAL to keep these studs as sharp as possible and you will do well with buying a 30 deg sharpener.

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Now when you say limit the shock reach do you mean the extended position or a spacer so they can;t compress as much? I am thinking you mean so they can;t compress as far? Hence less compression, less travel time, power to the track faster? Is it one more step to tie the back down as well?
How much down should I tie the front, and also does this blow my seals? There is a possibility I may switch the track back to my trail track and use it in the trails.

Now back to the loading it on a ramp, I figured you would say that, so how do you move it from the garage to the trailer? Can I get dollies, then wheel it to the alley/grass, then drive it up the ramp;?

Thanks for all the help so far, I am thinking of cold weather and snow in my sleep!

[6]

Originally posted by fast426@Aug 21 2005, 01:10 PM
Now when you say limit the shock reach do you mean the extended position or a spacer so they can;t compress as much?* I am thinking you mean so they can;t compress as far?* Hence less compression, less travel time, power to the track faster?* Is it one more step to tie the back down as well?*
How much down should I tie the front, and also does this blow my seals?* There is a possibility I may switch the track back to my trail track and use it in the trails.

Now back to the loading it on a ramp, I figured you would say that, so how do you move it from the garage to the trailer?* Can I get dollies, then wheel it to the alley/grass, then drive it up the ramp;?

Thanks for all the help so far, I am thinking of cold weather and snow in my sleep!

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Nope, I mean you want to limit the reach. The spacer is placed inside the shock and it prevents the shock from its full reach, in effect reducing the rear skid height (reducing the distance from point A to B in the image below). And once the skid is installed again, it creates a fairly rigid suspension setting due to the tension which is placed on it due to the shocks being restricted. It does work well, trust me.



Both the front and rear adjustment amounts will need to be tested to determine the proper height. That is why I used cable with a turnbuckle in the front, so I could change this setting when I need more or less transfer. Most racers take the front down just about as far as it will go without getting too close to the ground. You take a best guess in the rear and have the shocks set to that level and test, test, and test.

Adjustments can get expensive by having to keep opening the shocks, but most people get it right within 1 or 2 rebuilds. A rebuild shop may already have the spacer heights and correct measurements so check around. This would be able to get you real close.

As far as moving it around, we just used the eazymove system (see this article). You'll just need to find something that works for you. Sometimes we would just wheel the sleds to the grass and then start them up and load them on the trailer. The driveway and the garage floor is your enemy. Grass is safe, ice is safe. Even the wood on the trailer is safe as long as you DO NOT spin the track up there. Cover ANY metal support surfaces with wood if you have any on your trailer that the track will rest on. We had some, so we covered them.

The image that I looked at for your track gives me a few concerns. Here is what I see from the image:

1. The holes are already there so you are now stuck with the previous person's pattern; hope it is a good one.

2. The AB plates are not properly balanced at all from the image. I would remove all of them and get rid of them entirely as this is a safety issue. You'll need to see if this is possible since you COULD be stuck using them due to the tight spacing that you now have.

3. ALL of the studs I see in the image are junk and need to be thrown out or sharpened.

4. Need better images of the track clips to determine what is needed there.

5. Be VERY careful putting studs back in the outer area. You have two position ABs out there before on some lugs. I would probably not put any studs out there unless in the single hole outer areas.

6. I would like to see better close-ups of the existing studs. There are a bunch of areas that look like they don't contain backers at all.

I would recommend removing all the studs and AB plates, and replacing all that crap that is on there with 240 (5 per lug) ice picks, T-Nut style. Alternate each outer lug area and leave the 2 position AB areas alone and empty.

As far as switching back and forth, you won't be able to do this once the rear skid is modified, unless you have another set of shocks. Besides, your entire setup will be incorrect if you go fom one area to another.

To be serious and to be good at it, you really need to pick one and go with it. This is a mistake many make. You cannot have it both ways and be right at the edge. We use to do both, and it took a full day in the garage to go from one setup to another. If we wanted to trail ride, it meant a track change, letting out the front suspension, clutching change, jetting change, and more. Then, when finally out on the trail, we were always woriried about getting bad gas, even with having an additive due to our higher compression. We worried about sucking in snow dust since we ran without an airbox, and the list goes on. We finally realized that we needed to pick just one area, and buy another sled for the other riding type. This way you can take everything to the edge and not worry about it.

And once you start modifying the sled, such as the skid modification,s bounching back and forth is no longer viable. This doesn't mean you cannot go from grass dragging in the fall and spring, and full ice dragging in the heart of winter. This is something we would do to maximize the racing use of the sleds.