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Discussion Starter #1
Anyone watch the GP motor cycle race's on Sunday, first time in  the history of GP motor cycle racing (53 years?) that a 4 stroke has been in the field. First race of the season brand new bikes(the 4 stroke's) they came in 1, 2 ,3 not to bad for the first outing with a new design. The 2 strokes are 500cc the 4's 960cc.
History is changing, like it  or not!
Check out the world super bike racing( all 4 strokes) but the fastest guy's are all riding 2 clyinder's vs the 4 cly, Same int the AMA super bike.
The first race of the world S.B, a Aprilla came in second place, they are powerd by a 1000cc twin, build by Rotax.
Somthing to think about.
 

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Why didnt the 4 strokes also come in 500cc.  Must have been becasue they would have sucked.  

Histroy is not changing.  4 stroke are hear to stay but two stroke will rule this sport for many years to come.  

Come to think of it.  My 4 stroke atv lasted 9000km before it started buring oil.  I still rode it to 10000km but that was it.  I know of a 583 with over 20000 and my mxz 500 is at 9000.  Both with no problems to report.  

To get my 4 stroke to 10000 i had to do 2 valve lash adjustments even though they said 1 every 15000.  

My doos never need a oil change just add and no valve lash.  Just pull the cord and go.  2 stokes equal fun.
 

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why didnt the 4 strokes also come in 500cc.  Must have been becasue they would have sucked[/b][/quote]
well said Machzzz1
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Machzzzz1 the point of my post is to show some insight on the technical advancment on these 4-stroke engine's and how they are perfoming, not to challange your opinion or hear about your atv. In all your bashing of these new 4-stroke's I have to persume that you have ridden one and have some first hand experience to compare the machz to a Rx-1 or is your opinion based solely on your experence with a atv and a 500 mxz. Lets hear some fact's not B.S.



Last edited by Rocketman at April 08, 2002, 4:12pm
 

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Good points mr670. I am just getting into motorcycles and I am wondering on what your thoughts are on why the fastest guys have the twins and now the 4 cylinders. Torque? Thanks!
         Ryan
 

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I frequently ride hard-packed, sometimes icy trails to campsites dozens of miles from the nearest electrical outlet. The terrain does not preclude an occasional bath for both man and machine through the thinly covered surface of a river or stream. There are plent of other folks in this part of the world who do the same. Before the companies can win our hearts they're going to have to build a four-stroke much lighter, with fan cooled options, and manual start capability (realistically) at -30 F.
 

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The Aprilla is one heck of a bike.  THere is a guy in the town that I live in who has one.  That bike has power!!!  I can't believe the acceleration that bike makes.  Plus he told me the top end is just amazing.  They are a bit more spendy than a normal crotch rocket, but they make up for it.  They arnt as bad as a BMW, but they are up there.
 

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One thing about the 2 stroke that keep will me a lover over everything is the sound of a fat set of pipes echoing off the hillside on a cold crisp day, and that two stroke smell believe it or not gets me pumped.
 

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Mr670.  

i dont need to drive one to say anything about it.  

You want facts fine.  A 2 stroke is more efficent period.  Why is it that a RX1 probably the most high tech 4 stroke engine that is 1000 cc only run the same speed as a 2 stroke 800 that is based on a design thats atleast 7 years old if not older.  

History is changing like it or not.  That sounds like BS.  Fact is that 2 strokes make more power compaired to a equal sized 4 stroke.  They can now do it with the same emmitions as a 4 stroke some can even do it with less.  They are lighter and simpler to build and fix.  They are cheaper to make, And because they have less moving parts they spin up faster making them more suited to a snowmobile.

Whats wrong with compairing a atv motor to a mxz.  I would say that the atv motor has it a lot easier then a sled engine.  Im just trying to point out that 4 strokes are not bullit proof.  Just wait till the manufactors try to make them lighter but still try to make them cheaper.
 

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I will admit, 4 strokes are coming more and more into the picture, but the manufacturers are gonna have to do some major work to get these machines so that they are better than 2 strokes.  TWO STROKES RULE!  You can't deny it!
 

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time will tell for sure that there will be a choice 2 or 4 stroke. just right now the oem's are appeasing the epa with a certain amount of production under the alotted emissions and the 4 stroke is a quick fix for now. i do believe yamaha is going in their own direction though.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I'm not arguing the fact of a 2-stroke can make more power then a comparible sized 4 stroke.
In fact I'm a big 2-stroke fan, from my little twin to a 2.4lt 6cly that puts out 250hp.
Machzzz1 what doo you mean more efficient?  Fuel efficient or efficient in making hp for the size of the engine?
I'm just  intrested in engines and new technology, and have a opened mind when it comes to new things and intrested in seeing what the future will bring to snowmobiling!
 

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To the people who don't like the idea of a 4 stroke sled:
What's up? Afraid of technology? Are you still driving a 25 year old car because you don't want a computer controlling the fuel mixture or shift points?

I think everyone will agree that there are going to be some applications where a 4 stroke won't work out, but at the same time there are many more where they will.

Everyone knows that a 2 stroke will make more power per cc than a 4 stroke. That's the reason the motorcycle people allow for much larger displacement in the rules for the guys running 4 strokes. (Anyone want to bet they are looking at that rule as a result of the wins this weekend?) It was done to encourage 4 stroke development (probably allowed because they didn't think it could be done), and it looks to be working pretty well after this past weekend. The fact that they were able to not only compete with, but also win is pretty impressive, 4 stroke fan or not. They have been able to build a 4 stroke, with twice the displacement of the 2 strokes in it's class, and do this with a weight that let the results obviously remain competetive. In most circles many would agree that accomplishment is awesome.  But not here.

Here, we have guys that make this accomplishment seem like
the world is trying to banish 2 strokes from existence. You would think that they were of the notion that their favorite sled had just been banned from the trails. I don't think that's what all this is about. To me, it's about developing options. It's about giving you another choice the next time you head for a showroom. It's about advancing technology. Nobody has said anything about 2 strokes not being available. Get your head out of the sand.

As far as which type engine will be top dog in the performance department in the future, why would you care? It will be a neat machine, the top dog, the sled with the most performance available. It will stand on it's own merits. It will not be there because of what kind of motor is under the hood.
Will you turn your back on it, calling it a morphidite only because of what motor it's got in it? Or will you give credit where it's due, and let the machine stand on it's own achievments? To those that won't, ... well, narrow minded comes to mind.

AL
 

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Mr670,
Nice boat, but with my limited experience, if the nose were that high in the air at over 100mph, I'd say it was in the process of blowing over backwards...

Not saying your machine won't go that fast, just thinking maybe not in that picture.

AL
 

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michahicks,    
    F.Y.I that boat has the perfect nose up ride. That is what all us guys want our ski/performance boats to do. It's how you'll see all hi-po ski/bass/and performance boats ride. With just the rear of the transom getting wet. Usually you'll need a jack plate,spacial prop ,etc to achieve this. It's an awesome ride from the picture.
Caleb
 

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My experience would be with V-drive, apparently the outboards are able to get away with something we were not able to. Understand all the objectives of getting the boat out of the water, but not with the nose that high. We used plates across the back controlled with a foot pedal to keep from getting that high. Lots of noise, good times. Scary picture (to me, anyway) if it is going that fast...

AL
 

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Discussion Starter #19
That pic is not of my boat, I doo have the same boat 1981 18ft Hydrostream Viking 2.4 Merc Mod V/P. Radared at 101mph.
That boat is dooin 100mph.  The hydrostream's run on a pad with the nose just hangin.  Scary is the word. (It's how you seperate the men from the boy's)You need the right condition's to run flat out in a V-bottom boat no big chop or surprise gusts of wind, or it is blow over time. Never been there,been close a couple of time's
 

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Thats things barly in the water.  I could belive thats 100mph any day of the week.  Ive only gone about 80mph in a boat and it didnt look that fast.  

Im not narrow minded.  Im just thinking of the twins and triples and how one got booted out pretty much.  

If they want us to drive 4 strokes then thats what there going to shove on us.  It wont be just another sled in the showroom.  It will be the only sled in the showroom.  

Im not scared though.  The moment all the 4 stroke technology gets put on 2 strokes which bombardier has started to do there wont be any question.

When i say more efficent i mean that the two stroke only has 2 strokes compaired to 4 so its more efficent.  Now that bombardier has all of the new detonation control and sensors everyware providing that everything works to plan they will be able to run the 2 stroke engine right at the line of safe and dangerous.  What you will see then is less emitions then a 4 stroke more fuel economy, and more power.  

Right now with the carb 2 strokes the manufactors are dumping a ton of fuel into the engine as a preventitive measure.  Not to mention that all engines are tuned to -20 and the most i rode in this year is -10.  The thing is that up until now we couldnt change this during a ride so we had to run rich just incase.  But with direct injection this is all a thing of the past.
 
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