[synner]

Just getting back into the sport this season. Picked up a 96 XCR 600 SP from a local guy who hadn't rode the machine since 2004. I've owned sleds in the past but the triples are new to me.

Problem I believe is the carbs. When I first got the sled it would fire right up, smoked alot, but seemed to run well.

First off I put in 3 new plugs, BR9ES as the manual calls for. Then I took it for a brief ride. Problem was it was really loading up when light on the throttle around 4500 rpm or so. It would load up, bog down and then when you opened up the throttle it would clear itself and take off like a scared cat.

Second, I got on this forum and read through 4 or 5 pages of searches regarding carbs, 600's, triples, etc.... What I learned from this was lots of basics about the carbs

Thirdly, I pulled the carbs, checked all the linkages, checked all the boots for cracks, made sure the carbs were clean and checked the settings.

The air pilot screw was turned all the way in on all 3 carbs, I backed it out 1 1/2 turns as the specs called for.

The carbs looked spotless inside, I didn't remove the bowl from the bottom.

I cleaned out the water reservoir on the bottom of the short piece of fuel line at the base of the carb.

I checked the jets, they are all set at one notch below the middle setting.

Put everything back together, put 20 bucks worth of fresh fuel in the tank, the oil reservoir is full of new injector oil and fired up the sled.

Now it will idle, barely, around 1000 rpm, before it was 2000 and when I try to ride it across the back lawn it goes 50 feet and starts to bog, it will quit if I don't throw the choke 1/2 on and catch it. It will run so so with the choke 1/2 on.

Any suggestions? I'm thinking of taking the carbs to the local Polaris dealer but then I don't learn anything about set up and I'm more of a hands on guy

Later today I'll do a compression test as well.

Great site, thanks already for all the good info I have found.

 

[synner]

Just ran a compression test with the motor stone cold, pulled the plugs out, they were all wet.

Recoil side, 110 psi
Middle cylinder, 118 psi
Clutch cylinder, 108 psi

 

[SnoFast]

The compression is OK for a sled with that age. You really need to take the float bowls off the carbs to get the job done correctly. When you takes the bowls off, you will gain access to the main jets ( if the sled has sit for awhile, they may be clogged), the pilot jets ( if has set for awhile, they WILL BE clogged), the the fuel inlet needle and jet. These all need to cleaned with carb cleaner. Make sure all of the gunk in the bottom of the bowls is cleaned out. With the carbs off, it's also a good time to take the choke plungers out, and make sure they are moving when the choke lever in engaged. I like to shoot them with WD-40 before I put them back in. Do all that, put it back together, and then let us know how it runs.

 

[synner]

Update, spent most of the day in the garage.

Did all of the above, carbs were amazingly clean inside. Pulled the bowls, pilot jet, choke plungers and sprayed everything down with carb cleaner.

Set up/sync'd the carbs using the 4.8mm drill gauge method as per the Polaris service manual. Tried to set the chokes up as well trying to eliminate the free play in the lever and then screwing them back in until a 1/8 to 1/4 inch play was in the lever.

Clip is one below the middle setting on the jets. Air screw/jet is set at 1 1/2 turns out.

Fuel filter flows fine, like new.

1/3 tank of new fuel in the tank.

Got the machine to fire up, idle is way off. By holding/feathering the throttle I can get the machine to hold around 4000, just before the clutch kicks in but then it dies off to nothing, stalls out.

By leaving the choke 1/2 on I can get the machine to stay running up to 4000 but there is a lot heavy exhaust smoke.

Now I'm stumped. Any thoughts. Machine ran okay before with the air jets screwed all the way in but that's when it was loading up big time around 4500 rpm.

 

[synner]

I should also note, I pulled the fuel pump, clean as a whistle and everything looked fine with it as well.

As well I put a dirt bike injector oil in the tank. Its called Apole maybe, smells kind of like strawberries when its burning. We use this in the dirt bikes and the local sled shop told me they've got lots of customers using it in their sleds as well.

I'm stating to think maybe ignition? coil, cdi, something

 

[02_600XCSP]

Check your crank seals. A leak can cause a lean condition and thowing your choke on richens the mixture. I'm pretty sure those sleds were known for crank problems, if it's a little warped it would wipe those seals right out.

 

[synner]

I'm just wondering if one of these simple carb sync tools would work, just using 3 bottles instead of 2 and using 2 stroke oil instead of water in case any ever gets sucked in.

http://faq.ninja250.org/index.php/Is_there...rb_sync_tool%3F

 

[synner]

Todays events as follows

Drained the fuel tank and refilled with 25 litres - 5.5 gal of Sunoco 94 fuel

Installed a new fuel filter

Installed 3 New NGK BR9ES plugs, gapped at .028 m - old plugs were good and wet when I pulled them out.

Air screws are now set at 3/4 of a turn out.

Machine fires and runs okay on the stand if I feather the throttle (idle isn't set yet, haven't gotten the engine warm yet)

I can engage the clutch at 4200 or so, spin it right up to 8000 if I want. Anywhere from 6000 and up it runs fine.

As soon as I let it drop to 5500 rpm or so it begins to die right off, almost like the ignition has quit/spark died. I can blip the throttle and choke a bit and hold it for another 10 seconds but then it bogs right out and dies.

Restart requires a combo of feathering the throttle and some choke, sometimes it starts, sometimes it backfires.

hmmmmmm????????????????

If I recall, triples were a ton of fun to ride and a ton of patience to tune.

 

[groomer52]

You can verify or eliminate an ignition problem by picking up an inline spark tester at napa. Adjustable ones are best because these systems don't put out a whole lotta kv. Dial it down to about a qtr inch.

 

[synner]

checked the stator specs against the machine, all readings are below the specs. going to replace the stator with another and go from there. now the fun of pulling the flywheel.

if nothing else the entire machine is getting a really good once over. we're almost intimate, the machine and I at this point in the "tune up" stage.

oh and I found a rattle that I thought was a bit weird, loose pair of needle nose pliers lying under the exhaust can on the belly of the sled - somewhere a prev. owner is probably looking for them

 

[synner]

okay, today's update.

Pulled the flywheel, that's a chore in itself. Heavy on the puller, bit of liquid flame wrench and the odd tap tap tap with the mallet and off it comes.

Swapped in another stator, matched up all the timing marks, put everything back together and it fires up okay

I should note that all the safety, key switch, kill switch, etc... are all unplugged at this time.

Let it idle for a minute, gave it some throttle, it pulls up to 4000, engages the clutch and starts to die back, chugging and sputtering a bit and then dies. Doesn't seem to want to catch itself even with feathering the throttle and the choke.

Fire it back up and if I instantly slam on the throttle it'll pull to 8000 but not if I gradually try to go there.

My thought now is the CDI, unfortunately they tell me there is no way to test a CDI. I'll check out the sled wreckers tomorrow and see what's out there.

 

[synner]

I was able to track down a CDI today. They're shipping it to me, I'll update once it arrives, I install it and see how everything works.

 

[synner]

new cdi arrived, well new to me. thank you ebay. plugged in the cdi and nothing had changed. did the start - stop problem issues a couple of times and then it seemed to clear itself out. let it idle for 10 minutes and then took it for a good burn around the property. seems to run like it should.

now to get the idle set a bit lower, 3000 is a bit much and to see what is causing the excessive smoke.

thanks for all the help/advice snowmobile world.

 

[Dale C. Green]

Haven't been to this site for a while, read about your problem last night. My XCR also idles high, but I don't let it idle, at least for very long. These sleds are very cold natured, MUST let mine warm up before getting on it.
I have rejetted my sled as follows, main jets; PTO side (clutch side) #340, Center#360, mag side #360. I also changed the pilot jets to #45 (all). Jet needle is set in the center groove, and the air screws are turned out 1.5 turns. (per decal under hood). Since I've done this, my low end bog is gone, economy is up, (not a lot), and it usually starts by the fourth pull, 1 after it's warm. Hope this helps. As far as the smoke, find and use some AMSOIL HP. mine only smokes when it's first started.
Another thing to check, all three float needles and seats.

 

[synner]

Well its that time of year again, snow plow season.

So I pulled the plows out of the corner of the shop and thought lets pull the sled out too. The plan is to pull the motor right out, check all the seals, freshen everything up and then start the season off right, none of this constant tuning and trying.

Will keep posted as to what we find out.

 

[tifa_5_2000]

just skimming over your thread, when did you rule out a fuel issue? have you checked the compression after it stalls?

 

[synner]

I haven't ruled out the fuel completely. Our last ride last season it wasn't running well at all, lots of bogging and missing. I finally got it to run well enough to get back home but I had to really mess with the carb settings to do that. Makes me think that its leaning way out and that I need to check over all the seals in the bottom end.

It's going to be one of those "I'm going to fix it right this time" projects that most certainly will lead to all sorts of "other" changes.

Oh well if we had nothing to fix we'd have nothing to do when it isn't snowing :wink:

One thing is for sure, this triple triple has definitely been a learning experience for me.

 

[tifa_5_2000]

the temp sensor in the head can cause trouble too.

 

[[email protected]]

How "synner" making out with the XCR????

Never got the '96 XCR 600 SP running well so I gave up on it as the snow was melting. Machine would still run when cold, so fogged / stabalized it and put it away for the summer. Well the snow is back so I pulled the beast out of the garage, pulled 4 times and it fired right up. Couldn't resist and gave it a good run. No problems with the exception of rough running at full throttle. Thought perhaps it "Got better after a long summer's break......" not the case. Went to fire it up the next day after another 5 inches of the white fell and it was deja vu all over again. Hard to start, couldn't keep it running, backfiring etc. Came back after an hour and it fired on the third pull sounding good. Drove it back into the garage where it will stay until next weekend. I'm taking it into the Polaris Shop for a professional opinion. I'm thinking it's either the cdi or the coils, however I'm interested in how and exactly what "synner" has done as it appears we suffer the exact same fate with our machines. Also interested in the heat sensor theory.

 

[synner]

I'm scheduled to pull the motor out this weekend and give it a really good once over, that is if it ever stops this snow/rain/snow/rain session and I can get out from the behind the wheel of the plow or the salt truck.

I'll post what I find out.