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I heard on the news that an off duty police officer and his friend were doing radar runs at night on Scugog lake. Apparantly, his friend was doing between 210-230km/h when he struck the officer doing the radar and both were killed!
I dont care if people want to go lightning fast on their sleds, but when your planning on driving at high speeds please make sure you do it under the right conditions!
Driving your sled even 100km/h at night on a lake just isnt safe, your headlight will not shine far enough ahead for you to be able to see an object and react to it safely!
If your gonna do radar runs, do it in the daytime and make sure you and the person doing the radar know in advance the area, and keep a safe distance from eachother and pedestrians.
Driving your machine fast is fun, (i do it too) but at the end of the day I want to come home...
Please take care!
 

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Why do people always bring up the issue of alcohol whenever there's an accident? You might just as well have pointed out that they didn't say if stupidity was involved. I'd trust a drunk man with common sense far more then an stone-cold sober idiot.

Anyway, my condolences to their families. It certainly does sound a little odd that people would be doing radar runs at night, and then not take any precautions to avoid something like this. I wonder how many times the cop had pulled people over for speeding and warned them about reduced visibility at night.
 

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Lol, ya beat me to it Newfiebullet. Perhaps the people who raise the alcohol question are raising it because THEY ARE GUILTY? I'd say so. Darn you accusational ####s with your guilt so large ya pawn it off on everyone else so that you look good. NEVER ASSUME.
 

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this story seems crazy to me, 1.) how does the person riding the sled not see the guy taking radar, 2.) how does the guy taking radar not move in time? drunk or sober, doesnt seem to make sense! very sad though
 

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Discussion Starter #7
this story seems crazy to me, 1.) how does the person riding the sled not see the guy taking radar, 2.) how does the guy taking radar not move in time? drunk or sober, doesnt seem to make sense! very sad though[/b]

At those high speeds, depending on how close the guy doing radar was there can be numerous reasons as to why he hit him.
A few possibilities,
1. Catching a crack in the ice may have veered him towards him at the last second
2. Any drifts of snow could have sent him off path
3. Im sure at those speeds even a large gust of wind could have thrown him off path..

If you have ever seen people doing radar or even spectating a run... when the snowmobile passes a lot of people are only 10ft. away! And if something goes wrong at 200km/h, you running just wont cut it in time!

I doubt drinking was involved...Just bad judgement.. Accidents do happen, but you should do what you can to avoid them and just you some common sense when riding!
 

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Oh wow, the forums sensor what I type automatically, look at that, lol.[/b]
It's a family site.

Jeff
 

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Sounds like there is more to the story than has been reported.[/b]
Usually is. Irregardless what the reasoning it's a sad situation and my condolenses to all involved.
 

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Why do people always bring up the issue of alcohol whenever there's an accident?[/b]
It certainly does sound a little odd that people would be doing radar runs at night, and then not take any precautions to avoid something like this.[/b]
I think you answered your own question. Two guys on a lake on a Friday night dooing 200kmh+ radar runs.....Hmmmmm think some liquid courage might be involved, I think it would be rather negligent to not assume so. There was a police officer involved, good chance we will NEVER hear the entire story. Regardless it was an asinine stunt to be pulling at night.

How does it go...Hold my beer watch this

Perm
 

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As much as I feel sorry for the families of those involved, this was nothing but sheer stupidity. What were these guys thinking? At that speed, you over-drive your headlight. By the time the driver would see the radar-gunner, he could not possibly avoid him. By the same token, the gunner could not possibly determine the distance of the oncoming sled. Especially at that speed.

This was a disaster waiting to happen, and I would not be surprised for to see this incident qualify for a Darwin Award.

My condolences to the family. It sucks to lose someone to an incident so stupid. Especially a police officer whio is suppposed to prevent such incidents, not be a victim of one.
 

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I think you answered your own question. Two guys on a lake on a Friday night dooing 200kmh+ radar runs.....Hmmmmm think some liquid courage might be involved, I think it would be rather negligent to not assume so. There was a police officer involved, good chance we will NEVER hear the entire story. Regardless it was an asinine stunt to be pulling at night.

How does it go...Hold my beer watch this

Perm[/b]
That's my point though Perm, even if they were drinking, it wouldn't, or certainly shouldn't, be the alcohol to blame. There are a number of things about blaming the alcohol really bother me.
It's used as a scapegoat, as if we could eliminate all accidents by eliminating alcohol.
It shifts the responsibility, and excuses people from displaying any common sense.
It tars everyone who ever has a beer or a drink with an air of irresponsibility.

Being on a constant witch hunt is dangerous, because you always need to find a witch. What will be the next target? Speed? There wouldn't be near as many accidents if we were limited to 25mph. Horsepwer? If we were all on Elan's there wouldn't be much of a problem with high speed accidents.

Liquid courage? What eggs you on more when you're out riding, a couple of beer, or a bunch of friends tapping their skis on your bumper? Know your abilities, drunk or sober, and know that alcohol is no excuse for a lack of common sense.

You're right about one thing though. We'll never hear all the details about this story.
 

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How much do you want to bet that the "strip" on Scugog doesn't get plowed next winter?

A few years ago 2 dirt bike riders are killed in a head on collision east of Burketon. After that the place is a magnet for cops every weekend.

Now this happens on Scugog (only a few miles away). Next winter the DRs will be out in force on the lake harassing sledders.
 

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NB it has nothing to do with a witch hunt. This is simply my speculation gathered from the few facts available in this case. One could safely assume that the police officer has common sense and some discretion. When a person consumes alcohol it is a proven fact that they gain confidence and lose discretion. Now once again going over the case, would it not be safe to assume that this accident contains both of these factors? Considering that half of all snowmobile accidents are alcohol related is even more reason to point the finger.
Here are some interesting stats released last year from the Canadian Institute for Health Information.

-In 2003-2004, there were 788 people admitted to hospitals for snowmobile-related injuries. Thirty-four per cent of those occurred in February, followed by 23 per cent in January.

-And snowmobiling accounted for 41 per cent of all winter sports-related visits to Canadian specialized trauma units in 2003-2004.

-The study also found that alcohol was involved in almost half of the incidents where blood/alcohol level was recorded, a statistic that has doubled in the past three years.

-young men who drink and drive in the evenings are the most at risk

-In a jump of almost 100 per cent from two years earlier, half of snowmobile-related severe trauma unit admissions in 2003-2004 involved alcohol consumption. Almost all of those were drivers of the vehicle.

-Drinkers tended to stay in the hospital three times longer than sober riders.

Perm
 

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Lol, ya beat me to it Newfiebullet. Perhaps the people who raise the alcohol question are raising it because THEY ARE GUILTY? I'd say so. Darn you accusational ####s with your guilt so large ya pawn it off on everyone else so that you look good. NEVER ASSUME.[/b]

OR perhaps we raise the question because drinking causes stupidity. I would find it highly unlikely that 2 perfectly sober people were out in the darkness (no lights except the moon)doing radar runs at extremely high speeds. As for the guilty comment.....maybe its the people that defend the accusations of alcohol being related to an accident that are the guilty ones
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I just want to add a few things....
What revrnd was saying about cops harassing snowmobilers driving on the lake. For one they have no authority too enforce any speed limit (as there are none) or how you drive them (wrecklesly/slow/fast/ or whatever) when you are on a lake..Is this a good thing???
I think it is! For one, when we are driving trails there are speed limits, when driving a car there are speed limits..the lake is an opportunity for us snowmobilers to get the most out of our machines and push some limits that we wouldnt be able to on a trail. I do not ever want that freedom taken away! I like being able to push my sled and not have to worry about speeding tickets and insurance going up.
The problem is there is a fine line between the 2 types of drivers 1. the idiots out there that have no regard for there life or others 2. Drivers who use common sense!

Permafrost....I am not going to argue your stats! And again the alcohol consumption falls back in the category of the 2 types of drivers.
I'll will be the first to admit that I have had 1,2 and sometimes 3 beers and have got on my sled...
This dosent mean I funneld 3 beers in 1 minute started up my sled at 11:30 at night and went out and did radar runs!!
You still need to be responsible and again use comon sense!! Im 6ft. 195lbs.. And i know what my body can tolerate as far as alcohol..If I have had more then 3 beers within a certin time there is no way I will get on my sled, and the people I sled with are the same!
We all snowmobile because its fun and what else are you gonna do in winter?? lol!

And accidents do happen even when you are being a responsible driver and you cant just assume or blame alcohol on every accident situation...Humans make mistakes, but just use your head...ask yourself before you do something "is this a good idea?"
 

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I want to know what the phrase ( WAS ALCOHOL INVOLVED, or ALCOHOL RELATED ) mean...I totally agree with Newfirbullet...Why don't people ask was the guy DRUNK, WREAKED, HAMMERED etc..Every time there is an accident and the smell of alcohol is present, alcohol is always blamed even if the person has had one beer ...It's the irresponsible people that don't know when to quit that is the problem..When I go riding I like to have a beer, then maybe another one at another bar/restaurant an hour or two later but that's it that's all..I know my limits..But if I were to wrap myself around a tree during that ride it would be said that alcohol was involved...SO HOW WAS IT INVOLVED???? Was the wings and fries that I had at the restaurant INVOLVED TOO....Sorry just get a little pissed when people have a beer and it's assumed that it was the cause of everything ......It was a terrible thing that happened, my condolences to the family's....
 

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It's upsetting. But the fact that it occured at night... do you know how many mistakes and errors in judgement from being over-tired alone can cause fatalities? We don't know, because there's not as much research on that as there is on alcohol. Next thing you know, they'll find some way to prove smoking impairs depth perception and blame smoking on some of the accidents. It's error in judgement that causes accidents, be it from drinking, over-tired, or simply not thinking when you thought you did.

I had two accidents the same day DUE TO BEING TIRED. I have not had a drink since Christmas, so you can't blame it on that. Minor accidents though, one took a small chip out of the right fender, the other scratched my back bumper no more than placing bungees would have done. They were both low-speed accidents at probably 5mph, lol. But we were all over-tired and accidents will happen when you are tired, regardless of the circumstances. At nightfall to the mixture, and accidents like this one will happen sooner or later. Perhaps weather was a factor? Who knows. Over-shooting the headlights could be very accurate, the driver would not have seen the radar operator in time to respond.
 

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How much do you want to bet that the "strip" on Scugog doesn't get plowed next winter?

A few years ago 2 dirt bike riders are killed in a head on collision east of Burketon. After that the place is a magnet for cops every weekend.

Now this happens on Scugog (only a few miles away). Next winter the DRs will be out in force on the lake harassing sledders.[/b]
You will not hear about people getting killed in Burketon anymore. This place was shut down at the end of the summer. :bash: This was a nice place to ride dirt bike, quads & 4X4's thanks to idiots again. They have no problem making sure they have lots of booze but they leave there brains at home. The cops had no problem with poeple riding there as long as you were legal & not drinking.
I will find out more about this since I ride on lake scugog all the time. I didn't even think that drinking was involved. The 1st thing that came to my mind was, who is these idiots doing radar at 9PM are they crazy. Then I found out one of them was a cop. :huh:
From what I have heard so far is the cop was holding the radar gun, the sled hit the cop & cut him in half & his body hit the rider & kill both of them.
I feel sorry for the families when people turn into idiots & things happen like this. :cussing:
 
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