Snowmobile World banner

1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
journeyman sled/motorhead
Joined
·
4,440 Posts
not to me, low rpm's, high torque= stuck sled
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
496 Posts
Theres not enough outlets for the trucks let alone the sleds !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,560 Posts
My first thought was "no way" too. But thinking about it, the issues mentioned above pretty much exactly match my thoughts when they started talking 4 stroke not too long ago. I guess with that lesson in mind, now I'll just say "we'll see"? Anything's possible.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,558 Posts
Ya it is a coo sled. its in a prox chassis. alot of us on HCS help the guy solve problem building it and helped lighten it up. i dont know what his final wiehgt was though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
430 Posts
It would be a cool idea for utility sleds or a niche market of perhaps touring sleds etc.. but the killer would be a $22,000 price tag for a clean burning light diesel sled.

Sure, there would be some validity to placing a diesel power plant in a sled.
However, diesel does not take kindly to extreme cold or poor quality fuel.
The complexity of stuffing a diesel in a sled and overcoming the real world circumstances snowmobiles are subjected to would be overwhelming.
At minimum your talking fuel heaters and turbochargers not to mention an exotic filter and exhaust system that would all certainly need to comply with strict epa standards.

Diesel technology is 110% better than 10 years ago but still dirty, stinky and noisy.
Who knows, a new legitimate, quiet, cleaner burning diesel technology may be discovered.
 

·
journeyman sled/motorhead
Joined
·
4,440 Posts
My first thought was "no way" too. But thinking about it, the issues mentioned above pretty much exactly match my thoughts when they started talking 4 stroke not too long ago. I guess with that lesson in mind, now I'll just say "we'll see"? Anything's possible.[/b]
yeah but those that said that about four strokes , alway forgot the sport bikes turning 13,000 rpm's. they do weigh to much ,they may hide well but they do. a diesel will have to weigh considerably more than a gas engine just to hold up to the compression ignition.
 

·
journeyman sled/motorhead
Joined
·
4,440 Posts
It would be a cool idea for utility sleds or a niche market of perhaps touring sleds etc.. but the killer would be a $22,000 price tag for a clean burning light diesel sled.

Sure, there would be some validity to placing a diesel power plant in a sled.
However, diesel does not take kindly to extreme cold or poor quality fuel.
The complexity of stuffing a diesel in a sled and overcoming the real world circumstances snowmobiles are subjected to would be overwhelming.
At minimum your talking fuel heaters and turbochargers not to mention an exotic filter and exhaust system that would all certainly need to comply with strict epa standards.

Diesel technology is 110% better than 10 years ago but still dirty, stinky and noisy.
Who knows, a new legitimate, quiet, cleaner burning diesel technology may be discovered.[/b]
you need to look at the new 6.7 cummins tail pipe is just as clean as your gasser.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
496 Posts
The complexity of stuffing a diesel in a sled and overcoming the real world circumstances snowmobiles are subjected to would be overwhelming.[/b]
Cant be to overwhelming they just did it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
580 Posts
you need to look at the new 6.7 cummins tail pipe is just as clean as your gasser.[/b]

Deisel technology was thought to be a stupid idea in a race car as well.........may I introduce to you the Audi R10..... doesn't stink, smoke, and you can hear the tires and wind noise at 170mph it's so quiet. (I've seen/heard it first hand.) The fuel milage is so good that they are severly resstricted on fuel tank size and flow rate. I'm sure we'll see more deisels and hybrid deisels in more things in the near future. Besides, a deisel in a sled? Sounds like a fun project! By the way, the weight I saw on that project was 732lbs and they were aiming for 700 for this year's competition.



(And in case anyone wants to be a know-it-all, yes, I know there have been deisel race cars before the R10 including at indy :tongue: .)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
430 Posts
Yes,
As I have already stated diesel has come a really long way.
(They have always been cleaner than gas motor but were sootier etc.)

I have worked on and around Diesels my entire life and am by no means an expert however, my only point, which obviously was entirely overlooked, is the huge cost factor and complexity needed for a mass produced venture of its kind.
The power plants in Trucks and "race cars" are physically larger and are not subject to the finite weight penalties a sled would be. These vehicles also have the room to stuff the menagerie of necessary components needed to make them clean and fast.
The exhaust systems on new diesels are huge computer controlled self-cleaning cluster @#$#’s that damn near glow red-hot!!
I’m not sure a sled would look right with a 6" diameter pipe sticking out of it.
What about the cooling system? Will little heat exchangers under the tunnel cut it?

Can it be done? Yes- although, at what expense to the consumer.
This only my opinion looking at it from a real world manufacturing and engineering background.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,560 Posts
There's still no snow on the ground, so.....

<<<my only point, which obviously was entirely overlooked, is the huge cost factor and complexity needed for a mass produced venture of its kind.>>>

Point not overlooked here. I agree entirely - if only focusing on todays environment.

My point was more or less directed towards the potential for, likelyhood of, future development.

For comparison, 4 strokes weren't exactly an overnight success either. Still aren't in a lot of people's minds. Think everyone will have to admit though, they share a larger market segment now than they did 15 years ago - when they were also thought of as utility/cruiser motors. And $20,000. plus 4 strokes really aren't all that unusual at the moment.
 

·
journeyman sled/motorhead
Joined
·
4,440 Posts
no doubt the 4 strokes take more market share now . I knew there was a market for them. I will say this joezr2 just remeinded me of the audi, it has some rpm for a diesel. and your right michahicks bringing this to market would take time and money. would it recoup the costs?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,885 Posts
Matter of fact, most R/C engines are 2 stroke diesel, and turn in excessive of 20+k rpm.

The thoughs of power vs. torque and RPM do not apply to the type of fuel, more the design and timing of the engine.

2 stoke diesels are used in offshore boat racing (Old School Detroit Diesels are 2 stroke I think).

All the fuel matters is energy. There is a certain amount of energy per gallon of fuel. Diesel has less per gallon than that of gas, thus requiring larger displacement (either in cubes, turbo, or supercharging) to make similar power. Now, before Barry jumps my case, just the nature of the fuels. On the other end, Nitro, tetro, etc... are even more powerful, but other problems come with it (for example, danger)

Proper engineering one could do it and make a whopping power. Cost of development would be too costly IMO. A strong running diesel takes allot more money to make power (from a manufacturing point of view)

The only reason 2 strokes have stayed around so long is they make great power and are chep to make.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
580 Posts
Just an addition to the topic: I was talking to a guy I with at work who is a pilot. he said that there are more and more deisels being used in private aviation. He was exlplaining something about a constant rpm and variable pitch propeller with some sort of ecu control that I didn't quite understand.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
269 Posts
I think its a great idea.

For the majority of sledders, its about trail riding, long distance, and reliability.

I dont need to get to 80 mph in 2 seconds, as long as I can get there reasonably for the lake running, so be it(trail riding limit is 50 km/h remember?!). If you need 110+ mph across a lake? Well go buy a 2 stroke un-reliable gas guzzler, and ill pass you at the next FUEL STATION.

I'll take that diesel that will get me tens of thousands of miles without issues.

And I do have a diesel Jetta... besides the car being a German POS, the engine is awesome. Its 16 years old, still gets me about 46 mpg any day of the week, with 350,000 km's.


There would be cold start issues, but they could easily have heated fuel filter... And how ofter are you at a place with no electricty (for a block heater for those -30+ days)..
 

·
journeyman sled/motorhead
Joined
·
4,440 Posts
yep the detroits were 2 strokes you can tell the ones that are from the sound they make. they do not turn high rpms though. now make that rc car pull the load of a sled or any person , not happening.its not beefy enough , if it was it would show in the design of the engine and it would be heavy. Brian yes banks has some diesels that turn rpm's they do not have long life they are very expensive to build and have tons of one off parts. the dakota they built to do 200 mph was nowhere near a stock cummins. the cast in manifold the factory head has in place was sawed off and a custom one bolted in its place, just one of many. the parts are very light compared to the production parts. I say diesels are heavy, not for the fuel they burn. but because they have to have 19.1 compression to burn it. try to do it with a briggs rod and see it twist. why does an rc car do it, how much fuel you stuffing in one to make the power it has? not much. I agree it can and will happen but with our tech now , its not now. I may learn a lil from you on diesels Dave, but not much. :wink: I am not on your case either.
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top