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Discussion Starter #1
Pending Ministry of Transportation, Ontario approval, the voting delegates attending the AGM in Huntsville, approved the Board of Governor's recommendation to maintain the current prices for the 08 / 09 season.

Jeff
 

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Good news but they had to hold the line or risk even more drop in permit sales

any other new news from the AGM that will affect us sledders
 

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Great to hear!

Out of curiousity, is the bulk of the permit price still to cover the cost of liability insurance? Has there been a decrease in the number of insurance claims? Is there any chance the permit price will ever decrease? I realize operational costs related to fuel/oil are certainly not decreasing at all.

Has there been any effort to try and get the liability insurance integrated with the licensing? Or perhaps embracing a permits and personal/trail liability insurance similar to what QC does?
 

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Just ordered mine today. And I got a free gift card from royal distributing for $10.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Great to hear!

Out of curiousity, is the bulk of the permit price still to cover the cost of liability insurance?


I'm not sure if this will work so I guess I'll have to wait to see what it'll look like after I hit submit.

The bulk of the permit cost goes to the trail. Either directly to the selling club or a portion to them and the balance into the MATRIX which is a formula / program designed to redistribute permit money from clubs that incur less expenses maintaining the trails than actual money raised from excessive permit sales. So in other words, since all clubs are non-profit entities, if they sell more permits than they need to maintain their trail system, than any excess money gets distributed around to other clubs that don't sell enough permits to pay for their expenses.
Without having my audit statement in front of me, I'm vaguely remembering the insurance portion to be around $40 - $48 per permit. We've had a lot of budget numbers thrown at us this past weekend. lol





Has there been a decrease in the number of insurance claims?


Not that I'm aware of. However, with all of the extra work that club volunteers complain about that they've had to do for the last 4- 5 years, they have been more successful in defending against insurance claims. That means less lawsuits going to trial. With all of the documentation we now have, claims are being thrown out at meetings of discovery. That's the pre-trial stuff that determines if there's enough evidence to show if a club was negligent and may have contributed to a full or partial cause in the accident. So the program is definitely working.

The OFSC is finally in a position where insurance companies are willing to even provide a quote. None would do that when the insurance crisis first hit us.

To further complicate things, it used to be that a claim could be filed within 7 years of the incident. Often there would be new people running the club and nobody would remember anything about the incident to be able to successfully defend the claim. Thankfully, legislation has changed and a claim must be filed within 2 years of the incident. Unfortunately, we're still within that 7 year window and therefore can't accurately determine future liabilities remaining out there. Fortunately, some of that extra work I mentioned, involves what the OFSC established what is known as the O.R.S. program. (Online Reporting System) All incidents are recorded into a data bank that records all pertinent information about any and every incident happening on our trails in great detail. That way no matter who's running the show at a club level, all information is available to successfully defend against all claims.

On top of that, to control costs and to get affordable insurance, the OFSC has a huge insurance deductible. They have set up a fund that a lot of money goes into to cover these deductibles. Once we are out of the 7 year window, and there's the required amount of money in that fund to cover all possible claims amounts, then the amount of money required to go into that fund will be reduced.



Is there any chance the permit price will ever decrease? I realize operational costs related to fuel/oil are certainly not decreasing at all.


Honoustly, no. It's not just the costs of fuel and oil that are forever going up. Everything is going up. Just as it is for you and I. We still don't cover our costs by permit revenue. We are very dependant on donations made by corporate sponsors. The Liberal government has committed to provide $3,000,000 to fund tourism initiatives for our trail system this season. However, that'll only happen if they get elected. They've also committed to continue working with us to work out a long term funding initiative. Also to arrange that the OFSC will be working with one ministry. Ministry of Tourism. Currently we are dealing with 11 ministries. If the PC's win, then it's back to the drawing board and we start negotiations all over again with a new government and see if we can get any money from them. If we get that money, it'll mean that we can do things that we haven't been able to do because of lack of funds. There are some clubs out there on the verge of bankruptcy and with our current funds available, we can't help them out. A government cash influx will certainly go a long way of preventing that from happening. Just for the record, there was 2 motions brought forward for permit price increases at the AGM, but the majority were concerned that any price increase would be the straw that broke the camel's back and would cause people to get out of the sport. We've held the price the same for 5 years now with the 08 / 09 season included.




Has there been any effort to try and get the liability insurance integrated with the licensing? Or perhaps embracing a permits and personal/trail liability insurance similar to what QC does?

The legislation in Quebec is different than it is in Ontario. The ability to sue is much greater in Ontario. There's so many factors that play into that answer and my post is too long already. lol So to answer that question, it has been looked at but currently it can't be done.
[/b]
I hope this helps.

Jeff
 

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Good answer :thumbsup:

I do not complain about the price of permits, but I know a lot of people do and judging by reports on these forums in the past few years, OFSC permit sales are down.

I just don't want to see my trail system fall apart due to lack of permit sales caused by increased permit prices.

Thanks, Jeff!
 

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I think the greatest danger to maintaining the system we have now in its entirity is the volunteer burnout issue that many clubs are facing. No volunteers, no trails

Jeff, was there mention about the attempts to change laws on suing volunteers?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I think the greatest danger to maintaining the system we have now in its entirity is the volunteer burnout issue that many clubs are facing. No volunteers, no trails

Jeff, was there mention about the attempts to change laws on suing volunteers?[/b]

Hi James.

As the Harris / Eves Government, the current McGuinty Government is under the impression that volunteers are indeed protected so they both feel no change in legislation is needed. However, the fact that anyone can be named in a lawsuit and therefore dragged through the hell of that process, there is definitely changes needed. The OFSC Barrie office staff are continueing to educate the buraucrats and the politicians and will continue to effect change on that issue.

Jeff
 

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I think the greatest danger to maintaining the system we have now in its entirity is the volunteer burnout issue that many clubs are facing. No volunteers, no trails

Jeff, was there mention about the attempts to change laws on suing volunteers?[/b]

You know I am a club executive and volunteer for my club and do help out with another

OFSC claims 2000 more volunteers last year

WHERE ARE THEY??????????????
 
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