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Discussion Starter #1
What is the stock weight of the pin and cotter pin on the arms of an 02 mxz 800 primary clutch?

Any help on this I would value , thanks
 

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Stock pins are 16 grams. Just what mods did you do to increase the HP so much that you are over revving by 1700 RPM's. Personally, I would like to know what is making all that power. That sled in stock form should be running at 7800.
 

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jeez...i`d say 150 to 200 rpm per gram. is your tach right? whats in it now for clutching? i would call the manufacturer of the pipes and ask for a clutching recomendation first. i got a gut feeling somethins up here.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Found out I have ~16.5 grams in the primary pins. Put in 20gm and the rpm went from ~9500 to 9150. So an additional 1gram on the pin is dropping the rpms by around 100 rpms.
But I need to get to 8500- 8600. So it wouold take me 30 grams to get to 8500 at clicker 3.
That is way to high, think of changing the finish rate of primary spring.
Cam is stock 47/44
Stock primary is 160 - 230
Secondary rer is the green spring ( I think it is 180- 300) , stock black was 160- 300.
Funny thing is I have not heard or read of anyone using a primary spring less than the 230 finishing rate!
Heard a few people having luck with the 200- 290.
I need advice on this,. Still am testing and trying different things. Will show results
 

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Check your tach calilbration,unless u have eliminated the rev limiter there is no way that mill is turning that rpm,like Keith said what is done to the motor????
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Installed the 25 gram pins, at the same time dropped the needle in the carb to the last clip ( 0.040) as the egts were reading mid to high 1200 ( at -8 Celcius or 17.5 Fahrenheit at 600 ft above sea level) , also increased the mains from 470, 480 left to right ....to 480, 490 left to right.
Took it for a run today at - 13 celcius = 8.6 Fahrenheit. the mid range egts dropped to a respectable mid 1100's, but WOT would range from 1020 to 1060 Fahrenheit.
the max rpms reached was 8600- 8700, but would not happen at WOT but before it. At full thottle for 10 to 15 sec the rpm would read 8200.
So the rpm reached the 8600-8700 and then would dropped at full WOT to 8200 at clicker #2.
The Kicker is the sled seems like a dog compared to the 20 gram pins withe the midrange needle one clip lower( 0.040 richer) and mains one size bigger, backshft seemed slower also.

Is the pin weight dogging this! Would a diff finishing rate of the primary spring ( say a 160/ 210 compared to the 160/230) with a lower than 25 gram pin be a better option?
How about moving back to the stock secondary spring (black 160/300)
Clutches were not hot, just warm and they both fully shifted out, ran black marker along bth clutches.
Still running the 23/43 gears
First off I will lean out the mains tomorrow and see if it is more responsive.
 

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I am going to give you my complete set up on my 02 800 MXZ.
I am running for primary clutch a 230/380 spring. 24.5 grams of pin weight. 293X ramps on clicker 2 spinning the motor 8100 rpms and engagement is at 4700 rpms. I am running a Team TS98 secondary with A 56/44 helix and the black/red spring. I believe it is a 155/222 on the poundage. I fought with the rer button clutch for years and decided it was a time for change. I put the Team on and WOW, what a difference.
My motor is full ported, a 2 degree timing advance, and I run an aftermarket head. The carbs are modified and I run a temp-a-flow to keep all good. Gearing I run 24/44 and it still will run over 100mph and get there REAL quick.
If your motor is all stock and you have not had the rpm limiter pull from your MPEM, 8400 rpm’s is all that motor will turn. If that is the case, you need to have your tach looked at and recalibrated and or replaced. It is hard to clutch if you don’t know were your rpms are.
The guys and gals on here are real sharp. They will help you in any way that they can as long as they have ALL the info. Clutching is a science and a lot of variables go into it. If one of those variables is in its wrong place, nothing will be right. I.E. I tried the 160/230 primary with 23 grams of pin weight. The motor would only turn 7000 rpm and the belt slipped badly.
There is a lot of experience on this site, and a lot of money spent clutching as well. Most all that I know came from right here and Doo School. I used to own/ run a dealership and at one time was a certified tech.

Brian
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I am going to give you my complete set up on my 02 800 MXZ.
I am running for primary clutch a 230/380 spring. 24.5 grams of pin weight. 293X ramps on clicker 2 spinning the motor 8100 rpms and engagement is at 4700 rpms. I am running a Team TS98 secondary with A 56/44 helix and the black/red spring. I believe it is a 155/222 on the poundage. I fought with the rer button clutch for years and decided it was a time for change. I put the Team on and WOW, what a difference.
My motor is full ported, a 2 degree timing advance, and I run an aftermarket head. The carbs are modified and I run a temp-a-flow to keep all good. Gearing I run 24/44 and it still will run over 100mph and get there REAL quick.
If your motor is all stock and you have not had the rpm limiter pull from your MPEM, 8400 rpm’s is all that motor will turn. If that is the case, you need to have your tach looked at and recalibrated and or replaced. It is hard to clutch if you don’t know were your rpms are.
The guys and gals on here are real sharp. They will help you in any way that they can as long as they have ALL the info. Clutching is a science and a lot of variables go into it. If one of those variables is in its wrong place, nothing will be right. I.E. I tried the 160/230 primary with 23 grams of pin weight. The motor would only turn 7000 rpm and the belt slipped badly.
There is a lot of experience on this site, and a lot of money spent clutching as well. Most all that I know came from right here and Doo School. I used to own/ run a dealership and at one time was a certified tech.

Brian[/b]
Brian,
thanks for your straightforwardness and no bull crap!! Yes I doo appreciatie it. I am here only to learn and hopefully others gain something from this!

what other ramps have you tried esp. the 287.s and/or the 284's, why the 293x?? What were your goals in doing this?
Been told by two rep. sources that there is not a rev limiter on my none touched ignition.

mxzwfo,
why do you like the 230/380 spring?? What others have you tried ? What results? Same for the secondary you changed the spring to a 155/222 from either a 160 or 180 -300 doo springs. How did you get to the helix your running ( 56/44 helix ) ? stock is 47/44, why you are running a stepper initial helix, why, do you think your increased =hrp required this?? What other angles have you tried????? Have you dragged this sled? What helix did you use is so?? straight angle??

when you changed to the team secondary, what was the biggest difference you noticed?
 

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Brian,
thanks for your straightforwardness and no bull crap!! Yes I doo appreciatie it. I am here only to learn and hopefully others gain something from this!

what other ramps have you tried esp. the 287.s and/or the 284's, why the 293x?? What were your goals in doing this?
Been told by two rep. sources that there is not a rev limiter on my none touched ignition.

mxzwfo,
why do you like the 230/380 spring?? What others have you tried ? What results? Same for the secondary you changed the spring to a 155/222 from either a 160 or 180 -300 doo springs. How did you get to the helix your running ( 56/44 helix ) ? stock is 47/44, why you are running a stepper initial helix, why, do you think your increased =hrp required this?? What other angles have you tried????? Have you dragged this sled? What helix did you use is so?? straight angle??

when you changed to the team secondary, what was the biggest difference you noticed?[/b]
he likes the set/up because it beats my 700 now :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I am going to give you my complete set up on my 02 800 MXZ.
I am running for primary clutch a 230/380 spring. 24.5 grams of pin weight. 293X ramps on clicker 2 spinning the motor 8100 rpms and engagement is at 4700 rpms. I am running a Team TS98 secondary with A 56/44 helix and the black/red spring. I believe it is a 155/222 on the poundage. I fought with the rer button clutch for years and decided it was a time for change. I put the Team on and WOW, what a difference.
My motor is full ported, a 2 degree timing advance, and I run an aftermarket head. The carbs are modified and I run a temp-a-flow to keep all good. Gearing I run 24/44 and it still will run over 100mph and get there REAL quick.
If your motor is all stock and you have not had the rpm limiter pull from your MPEM, 8400 rpm’s is all that motor will turn. If that is the case, you need to have your tach looked at and recalibrated and or replaced. It is hard to clutch if you don’t know were your rpms are.
The guys and gals on here are real sharp. They will help you in any way that they can as long as they have ALL the info. Clutching is a science and a lot of variables go into it. If one of those variables is in its wrong place, nothing will be right. I.E. I tried the 160/230 primary with 23 grams of pin weight. The motor would only turn 7000 rpm and the belt slipped badly.
There is a lot of experience on this site, and a lot of money spent clutching as well. Most all that I know came from right here and Doo School. I used to own/ run a dealership and at one time was a certified tech.

Brian[/b]

Brian , My dealer told me that there was not a rev limiter on my 02 mxz 800 renegade (canadian sled).
You were right, my tach was off. Is now calibrated right. Dropped the pins all the way to 18gm on #6 and can only pull 8100 but takes a long time to reach that, usually 7800 7900. Weird cause 21 grms pulled 8000 rpm at #6 clicker ( I do not understand that).
Will be testing with a 200- 290 and a 230-350 primary spring in a couple days.
So with your team secondary do you still have rer?
With your 2 degree advanced ignition what is your squish and compression? octane level?
have not heard of anyone using that steep of an initial helix angle? What does that initial 56 degree helix degree do for you?
I will give you a call this weekend, with my results
Thanks,
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Brian , My dealer told me that there was not a rev limiter on my 02 mxz 800 renegade (canadian sled).
You were right, my tach was off. Is now calibrated right. Dropped the pins all the way to 18gm on #6 and can only pull 8100 but takes a long time to reach that, usually 7800 7900. Weird cause 21 grms pulled 8000 rpm at #6 clicker ( I do not understand that).
Will be testing with a 200- 290 and a 230-350 primary spring in a couple days.
So with your team secondary do you still have rer?
With your 2 degree advanced ignition what is your squish and compression? octane level?
have not heard of anyone using that steep of an initial helix angle? What does that initial 56 degree helix degree do for you?
I will give you a call this weekend, with my results
Thanks,[/b]

Brian,
I got my clutch back together last night and went for a test. only thing I changed was put in the 200- 290 primary spring. Stil with 18gm pins and clicker 6 .
ALL I CAN SAY IS WOW.
I knew my clutching was off before but I did not know it was that off!!
This sled is a different beast. Smile to smile right from the get go. Found I would have to feather the thottle from low to mid range so the track wouldn't totally lose it from me, still alot of spin. But still hooked up like nothing I seen before( trails were also slushy/wet)
top end was a bit better, but this does not bother me, 150-160km is enought for me.
But I will test my 230 350 spring on stock ramps(301).
Been geting advice on the primary spring, the range is lots?
People have recommended a finishing rate anywhere from 290 to 380 or 390 on the primary

Oh forgot to say Brian, Just with putting in this primary spring the rpms shot from a top of 8100 to 8550, still on clicker 6. So I beleive there is no rev limiter on this sled. Dealer has not touched it. He also told me there is no limiter
So today will drop pin weight a gram at a time and see how the engine pulls, plus if the revs increase on the digitron.
Cheers
 
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