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Discussion Starter #1
Skidoo states on their site that they have the power leading sled in the 800-900cc class. With 151hp 800. Looking at polaris they put up that the rmk 800 makes 154hp..

I was just wondering how accurate the numbers are on the manufactuers sites?

thanks
 

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something i have found out is facts matter after it is tested in the real world, you can even forget about the race track results. the real test is with every "one" of us on the trail.
 

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In my experience, to be trusted about as much as their advertised weights. Hype.
 

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... the conditions can alter the hp. I don't think Polaris offers the 8 in a shorty, but the 8 in Polaris isn't even available yet until the end of this year, so technically it's not readily available to the consumers yet. Vs Bombardier's 08 is not only available, I've seen a few in town already. :) They have one up on a stand in front of our local Bombardier dealer.

Kinda like Polaris 900 when it came out in 2002, ya couldn't buy them until the end of '04. So if ya can't buy them yet, how can the consumer test it out to know what kind of instant "oomph" it has? Seeing as how both Bombardier and Polaris are now tweaking the 8, I can't wait to see what kind of configurations/stats they'll both come out with! :) It's one thing to have one brand claim a style of engine, but when ya have two brands tweakin' now that's when the games begin :) Something tells me Bombardier will get better fuel mileage though... LOL.
 

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Usually you'll noticed that all the manufacturers use the data from the previous model years of their competition. Then they put an asterix, and say they're using data available at time of pubilcation.
In some ways that's understandable. Their brochures are planned and printed before they can get their hands on hte competitions new information. The fact that it makes their sleds seem to have an advantage is a bit of a bonus.

You're right though, Polaris seems to have the strongest 800 for next year.
 

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The Polaris 800 is probably going to put out more power than ski-doo's, but the 5 HP more isnt going to make much difference, it might just make up for the weight that the new doo's lost.

But dont forget that Polaris has underrated sleds in the recent past. The 600 HOCFI was rated at 125 and put out 129 or so on the dyno. So if those results relate anything to the 800 they may have somthing like 156-160 HP dyno. Ski doo tends to be right on manufac's ratings, even slightly bellow.

I know Polaris has lost sales and market share but I do think that them and Ski-doo are still way ahead in developing the best sleds. Polaris has the suspension and engine technology, and ski doo has chassis design. Granted both of them have had some severe problems with certain models, if they both get the problems ironed out I think we will see the two battling for top spot well ahead of AC and Yami.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Does Polaris claim that HP available in a shorty? If not, that would probably be why Doo can claim it.[/b]

Just wondering if you mean by "available in shorty" as short track?
 

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The Polaris 800 is probably going to put out more power than ski-doo's, but the 5 HP more isn't going to make much difference, it might just make up for the weight that the new doo's lost.

But dont forget that Polaris has underrated sleds in the recent past. The 600 HOCFI was rated at 125 and put out 129 or so on the dyno. So if those results relate anything to the 800 they may have something like 156-160 HP dyno. Ski doo tends to be right on manufac's ratings, even slightly bellow.

I know Polaris has lost sales and market share but I do think that them and Ski-doo are still way ahead in developing the best sleds. Polaris has the suspension and engine technology, and ski doo has chassis design. Granted both of them have had some severe problems with certain models, if they both get the problems ironed out I think we will see the two battling for top spot well ahead of AC and Yami.[/b]

What machine has Polaris put out that is more developed then any other manufacture..Ski-Doo offers a superior chassis, Arctic Cat has the Diamond drive and one of the best suspension set up out there and Yamaha has developed bullet proof efficient 4 stroke motors...Polaris needs to step up to the plate, the Dragon is a nice machine but far away from being one of the best...I am sure Polaris will surprise us with some new technoligy soon, they don't have much of a choice........
 

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What machine has Polaris put out that is more developed then any other manufacture..Ski-Doo offers a superior chassis, Arctic Cat has the Diamond drive and one of the best suspension set up out there and Yamaha has developed bullet proof efficient 4 stroke motors...Polaris needs to step up to the plate, the Dragon is a nice machine but far away from being one of the best...I am sure Polaris will surprise us with some new technoligy soon, they don't have much of a choice........[/b]
I could've let thins slide, but the Dragon "far away from being one of the best"? Come on, what are you talking about.
You could argue that it's not the best, that's it's no better then an F-series or MXZ if you like. I wouldn't agree with you, but fair enough, we all have our opinions. But at a minimum you have to admit that it's in the hunt for the top performance sled out there. Certainly not "far away from being the best". It did with a shootout with the Apex and the MX-Z X-RS afterall, and has been praised by every magazine that has done a test on it.

As for you other points...whether Ski-Doo's chassis is superior is a matter of opinion as well. Are you referring to 07 or 08? Personally I couldn't ride an 07 for more then an hour or two. Way too uncomfortable. Not the mark of a superior chassis in my books.

Cat's Diamond Drive? Now that they've stopped disintegrating, and that there's a reverse available for it, I can see it being a good point. I still can't believe how Cat got a pass from all the critisizim for not offering reverse when it first came out though. I guess people thought they had recieved enough bashing over the F-7 recalls in 03.

Yamaha is certainly a leader in 4-strokes. Too bad the weight that goes along with it doesn't appeal to all of us.

As for Polaris innovations, I assume you're just talking about the last 5 or 6 years? How about the variable castor front end? How about the heat-exchanger integral to the tunnel on the RMK? How about Rider-select on the touring sleds, that was copied by Cat a year later? How about DET? How about the dual purpose rails? How about the M-10? The list goes on.

I think before you criticize a product you should at least do some homework first.
 

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Does Polaris claim that HP available in a shorty? If not, that would probably be why Doo can claim it.[/b]
you can get an 08 dragon 121 800, very few from dealers with cash only, they are a promo for next year. skidoo did they same thing putting the 800r in the summit for its first year. and SLP already dynoed the new 800 at 159 and the dragon motor at 149 after 1000 miles on her. just give poo a chance in this one, i think everyone will be impressed
 

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im with newfie, com on man all the mags even say polaris has the best suspension , they always have. sure they had a down fall that set them back but now that theres pressure seem s everyone is getting a little intimidated and the only thing to do is put polaris down. m not saying the dimond drive is a bad idea, but if it was so good im sure other manufacturers would be using it. as far as im concern its just a exspensive replacement part that loses horsepower.
 

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sledheads are the most brand biased people on the face of the earth (other than maybe harley riders),,, for every point anyone can come up with on why their brand is better than mine, I can come up with a point of my own that goes against it. As for the whos the best arguement,,, they all have some great features,,, they all have areas that need improvement. Everybody has their own opinion on the matter,,,,
Newfie, the dragon is a great looking sled but I cant sit here and honestly comment much past that because I have never rode one,,, and same goes with the new f series sled from cat,,, I have rode one and the trail ride (in my opinion) is the best ride on the market. Due to my knees, I am unable to ride the rev,,, after an hour it absolutely kills me. I am not bashing the rev,,, they wouldnt have sold that many sleds if it really was a bad design,,, but to my point,,, the suspension on the f series with the rider forward design that cat is using is better than any out there,,,, and the rider select that cat supposedly stole,,, evidently you have never looked at the new f series,,, its nothing like what polaris is using with adjustable handlebars. Dont take this as an attack, only the chance to get an opinion out there for others to view,,,,

last but not least,,, enough on the 03 firecat recalls,,,, I think that one has been beat to death enough,,, cat brought them to the market too early, but cat did take care of every issue that they became aware of. In my experiance, I never missed a day of riding because of a recall,,, even got lunch one day when I brought the sled in to have a recall taken care of,,,
 

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Puree, I agree with you 100%. I would never try and convince a Cat owner that my Polaris is better, just that they both have alot to offer, depending on what you're looking for. I've said many times over the last few months that, with the exception of the looks, the new Cats have alot to offer, and just sitting on one I can tell that they would be a very comfortable and fun machine to ride.
About the rider select, I know that Cat's version is very different and, in my opinion, superior to what Polaris has on their sleds. I was just pointing out that it was an innovation that Polaris brought to the table first.
About the Firecat bashing; sorry about that, I actually think the Firecats were super machines, I just find it funny how the Fusion got such a bad rap that Polaris is still suffering for, but after the Firecat issues it seemed like the press was sensitive to criticizing Cat, and for the most part they wouldn't even mention the Reverse issue until Cat finally had a reverse available for the Diamond Drive.
Anyway, I did not mean my post to be a bash at all, just meant to point out some misconceptions people have about Polaris.
 

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As for you other points...whether Ski-Doo's chassis is superior is a matter of opinion as well. Are you referring to 07 or 08? Personally I couldn't ride an 07 for more then an hour or two. Way too uncomfortable. Not the mark of a superior chassis in my books.[/b]

Opinion or not if all the other manufactures copy the conceptual aspect of the design it better be worth risking the "rip off", "copy cat" moniker because they will most certainly carry it for the next decade or so. We don't have to do much homework because, apparently, Cat, Pol, and Yam seem to have done it for us. The phrase "rider forward" in itself is all Doo.


As for the ponies, if you can count the diff on one hand it's not worth bragging about. Besides power is in the eye of the beholder. Where does it fall in the power band? Where and what is the torque range? 100 RPMS 500, 1000? Power to weight? Weight period? Gearing, track design, clutch type and set up. To many variables and to many tastes for any manufacturer to claim anything w/ the word "best" in it.
 

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sledheads are the most brand biased people on the face of the earth (other than maybe harley riders),,, for every point anyone can come up with on why their brand is better than mine, I can come up with a point of my own that goes against it.[/b]
Well put, and evident by many of the regulars here on this site
 

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Opinion or not if all the other manufactures copy the conceptual aspect of the design it better be worth risking the "rip off", "copy cat" moniker because they will most certainly carry it for the next decade or so. We don't have to do much homework because, apparently, Cat, Pol, and Yam seem to have done it for us. The phrase "rider forward" in itself is all Doo.[/b]
No kidding, my wife points out the fact that ALL of the new sleds are starting to look the same!
 

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NewfieBullet,,, I was not trying to direct my post towards you,,, I am very sorry if you took it that way,,, that is not what I was intending at all,,,
 
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