[plus88]

does anyone out there know how to correctly remove or disable an oil pump from a 1995 yamaha phazer engine? I am putting an differant motor (also a 480 fan) into the sled and I want to run premix but i am not sure how to do it, or what mixture to run when done?

 

[8vo fan]

If you buy full synthetic or a good semi synthetic you can run 50-1. If you run the cheap 2 cycle oil mix it 20-1. I would just use the oil pump, they are fairly dependable, cheap to replace if they do fail, are far more convenient than premix.
The pump also provides the tach drive, If you remove the pump you will have no more tach. You could just leave the pump there but, once it runs dry for a while it will probably lock up.
There is someone here who has done it. Maybe he will reply. I can't remember who it was.
Good luck.

 

[plus88]

If you buy full synthetic or a good semi synthetic you can run 50-1. If you run the cheap 2 cycle oil mix it 20-1. I would just use the oil pump, they are fairly dependable, cheap to replace if they do fail, are far more convenient than premix.
The pump also provides the tach drive, If you remove the pump you will have no more tach. You could just leave the pump there but, once it runs dry for a while it will probably lock up.
There is someone here who has done it. Maybe he will reply. I can't remember who it was.
Good luck.[/b]

Thanks for the info, I am not to worried about the tach drive, and I don't really mind premixing, I would like to get red of it so I don't have to worry about it, and I am mechanicaly inclined so I thought if some would know the details I could try it.

 

[IceFisherman]

It costs about $80 to have the pump rebuilt. Have it rebuilt and it will be good for another 10000 miles. Yamaha invented oil injection on 2 strokes, they have the best system out there. Do yourself a favor and keep it working.

 

[whanker57]

If you buy full synthetic or a good semi synthetic you can run 50-1. If you run the cheap 2 cycle oil mix it 20-1. I would just use the oil pump, they are fairly dependable, cheap to replace if they do fail, are far more convenient than premix.
The pump also provides the tach drive, If you remove the pump you will have no more tach. You could just leave the pump there but, once it runs dry for a while it will probably lock up.
There is someone here who has done it. Maybe he will reply. I can't remember who it was.
Good luck.[/b]

Maybe so, but pistons and cylinders are a little more expensive when you blow it up...

I don't have mine on my sled, as it failed, resulting in engine seizure(s).
If you want the tach, just keep the oil pump on as the tach runs off the the pump.
If you don't want the tach, you should be able to take the oil pump off and remove the main drive gear, permanently disconnecting the pump.

I would recommend just leaving the pump on there, just disconnecting it. Thats what I did, I cut all of the lines short and plugged them. That way my tach is still operational if I need it.
It will probably seize up over time, but I suppose you could squirt some oil in there every so often to keep it lubed...

People will tell you that you're better off leaving it on... I personally didn't trust it, and didn't feel like screwing around with it anymore. PreMix is a pain sometimes, but at least you are sure that its getting lubed.

Let me know if you have any questions, I pretty much know the phazer inside and out.

Hope this helps, let us know what you end up doing.

 

[8vo fan]

Yeah the pump bolts outside of the crankseal. If you pull the clutch you can remove the whole assembly.
You can probably shave 5lbs off an already light weight sled.
Lack of a tach could cause more engine failures than the pump ever would. I personally wouldn't own a phazer if it didn't have oil injection.
I feel that I'm more likely going to be hit by lightening than have an oil pump failure.

 

[plus88]

Maybe so, but pistons and cylinders are a little more expensive when you blow it up...

I don't have mine on my sled, as it failed, resulting in engine seizure(s).
If you want the tach, just keep the oil pump on as the tach runs off the the pump.
If you don't want the tach, you should be able to take the oil pump off and remove the main drive gear, permanently disconnecting the pump.

I would recommend just leaving the pump on there, just disconnecting it. Thats what I did, I cut all of the lines short and plugged them. That way my tach is still operational if I need it.
It will probably seize up over time, but I suppose you could squirt some oil in there every so often to keep it lubed...

People will tell you that you're better off leaving it on... I personally didn't trust it, and didn't feel like screwing around with it anymore. PreMix is a pain sometimes, but at least you are sure that its getting lubed.

Let me know if you have any questions, I pretty much know the phazer inside and out.

Hope this helps, let us know what you end up doing.[/b]

How long have you been running with the pump not hooked up? also what do you mix it at for premix?

Thanks for all the info guys!!!!!!

 

[whanker57]

I've been running it all last season and this season. I use a 32:1 - 40:1 ratio. Haven't had a problem yet! (Had ALOT of problems before... :bash: )

8VOFAN - What problems would not having a tach cause? I'm curious, never really thought about it...

 

[Beaxch]

No tach isn't a big deal if your clutching is perfect and you're sure it will stay that way. On the other hand if something goes wrong (a spring or belt wears out or something) and you start overrevving every time you hit the throttle but you don't know it because you have no tach, I'd say that's a good way to blow up your motor.

On the subject of oil injection, I use it and I think there would be less "oil injection reliability" problems if everyone with old sleds set up their oilers in the 32:1 to 40:1 range. Just turn it up past the alignment mark and then measure your consumption after a ride, and fine tune from there. Measuring your oil consumption is probably a good idea in general just to make sure your oiler is working right in the first place. I'm just saying maybe there's nothing wrong with most of the oil injectors except they're set up for 50:1 or worse and these sleds want more oil than that. Also, in general, if you have an inline oil filter it's time to replace it.

 

[whanker57]

No tach isn't a big deal if your clutching is perfect and you're sure it will stay that way. On the other hand if something goes wrong (a spring or belt wears out or something) and you start overrevving every time you hit the throttle but you don't know it because you have no tach, I'd say that's a good way to blow up your motor.[/b]

That was the only possible reason I could come up with. However, I've been riding this thing for 4 or 5 years, so I would probably notice an increase in RPM.

(Actually, I did notice. It's not revving quite high enough, I think the secondary clutch is set up wrong. Although the tach is still hooked up on mine, I recently removed the fairing in my "Phazer Altercation Project", and do not have the tach on the sled... Would be nice though at the time...)

 

[AL vmax4]

On the subject of oil injection, I use it and I think there would be less "oil injection reliability" problems if everyone with old sleds set up their oilers in the 32:1 to 40:1 range. Just turn it up past the alignment mark and then measure your consumption after a ride, and fine tune from there. Measuring your oil consumption is probably a good idea in general just to make sure your oiler is working right in the first place. I'm just saying maybe there's nothing wrong with most of the oil injectors except they're set up for 50:1 or worse and these sleds want more oil than that. Also, in general, if you have an inline oil filter it's time to replace it.[/b]

that aint gonna work..oil injection is a variable system..in other words, it dont mix X amount of oil all the time..
the ratio is not even from idle to WOT..in other words, depending on the rpms/throttle position, the ratio will change, so in theory, if you just cruised around real slow, you would come up with a differant ratio, then if you were to run wot throttle all day, your math would show a differant ratio.....for example..
so, really, that ratio you came up with, would be the average, not the steady ratio..
the ratio usually runs somewhere from about 20:1 to almost 100:1..depending..

here`s a little more info on it..

oil injection system..

 

[wwracer]

that aint gonna work..oil injection is a variable system..in other words, it dont mix X amount of oil all the time..
the ratio is not even from idle to WOT..in other words, depending on the rpms/throttle position, the ratio will change, so in theory, if you just cruised around real slow, you would come up with a differant ratio, then if you were to run wot throttle all day, your math would show a differant ratio.....for example..
so, really, that ratio you came up with, would be the average, not the steady ratio..
the ratio usually runs somewhere from about 20:1 to almost 100:1..depending..

here`s a little more info on it..

oil injection system..[/b]

Good post Al, learn something new every day! To me taking off the oil pump is akin to what a lot of people did in the early 70's when electronic ignitions first came out . A Lot of people didn't understand or want to understand them and ran to the store for a dual point as soon as the motor hiccuped. You'd be hard pressed to find a point distributor today, thank God. I have three phazers with fairly high mileage and the pumps all seem to work fine. The last thing I want to do is go bass ackwards to the "good old days" and start mixing oil in a jug again....

 

[plus88]

Good post Al, learn something new every day! To me taking off the oil pump is akin to what a lot of people did in the early 70's when electronic ignitions first came out . A Lot of people didn't understand or want to understand them and ran to the store for a dual point as soon as the motor hiccuped. You'd be hard pressed to find a point distributor today, thank God. I have three phazers with fairly high mileage and the pumps all seem to work fine. The last thing I want to do is go bass ackwards to the "good old days" and start mixing oil in a jug again....[/b]

speaking of bass ackwards, last time I checked don't 2 stroke race sleds and 2 stroke motorcross bikes all use premix? so why is that bass ackwards?

 

[AL vmax4]

thanks wwracer..and yeah, I hear ya on the electronic ignitions.. thats exactly how it went down. LOL..


Plus88..
that depends really, wether your talking about, straight drags, oval, Xcross ect..
some guys will ditch the oil injector system for wieght savings, but as far as their motors running better using pre mix or being more dependable., I dont see that as being any kind of reason..

 

[plus88]

thanks wwracer..and yeah, I hear ya on the electronic ignitions.. thats exactly how it went down. LOL..
Plus88..
that depends really, wether your talking about, straight drags, oval, Xcross ect..
some guys will ditch the oil injector system for wieght savings, but as far as their motors running better using pre mix or being more dependable., I dont see that as being any kind of reason..[/b]

Don't a few sled come factory with no oil pump injection? you missed the comment about 2 stroke motorcross bikes, they come factory without oil injection. All I am saying is I asked if some out there could help me, thats all. I'm not trying to sound like an @ss hole, just had a question and was looking for an answer not just comments that I should or shouldn't do it. The question was not about running better OR reliability. Just for facts, I have never seen a premix engine " burn down" because the pump went bad, because there is no pump, but I have heard of oil pumps quiting.

 

[AL vmax4]

If your gonna pre mix, pre mix at 50:1, with a quality two stroke oil..

 

[whanker57]

Don't a few sled come factory with no oil pump injection? you missed the comment about 2 stroke motorcross bikes, they come factory without oil injection. All I am saying is I asked if some out there could help me, thats all. I'm not trying to sound like an @ss hole, just had a question and was looking for an answer not just comments that I should or shouldn't do it. The question was not about running better OR reliability. Just for facts, I have never seen a premix engine " burn down" because the pump went bad, because there is no pump, but I have heard of oil pumps quiting.[/b]

Good point, and I agree. However, don't make posts sound to aggressive, or people will stop replying... (Most likely it wasn't meant to sound pi$$ed, but it came across that way)

If your gonna pre mix, pre mix at 50:1, with a quality two stroke oil..[/b]

If you aren't using quality 2-stroke oil, I'd recommend 40:1...(my 32:1 is a little too much(though when it smokes I know it won't seize due to lack of lubrication... ))