Smoking like crazy, could be your inner oil seals gone bad. The 2 lines that go to the center of your engine ar to lube the cener bearings. There is seals on either side. If one, or both are bad, then it can injest ALOT of oil, and that wil make the sled run realy bad. One way to test, drail all the oil form the oil tank or just plug the lines, and run some premix. Easier to run a line form the fuel pump to a Jerry can with mixed in it, bypassing the tank. Drain all the straight gas out of the carbs too. Then, fire it up and see if it runs better. Only do this on the stand, and for a short bit. Your center bearing wil only have a little bit of oil in it, and if it is leaking there, it will suck it out. But, if you can now rev up on the stand past 4500, you know the problem.
Sled Still Not Running
Yup, it revs up to 4500 and thats it, if floored it dies. Smokes so much you can't see it. stalls if you dont rev it. Here's whats been done
6 pairs of plugs, half gapped to .018 half gapped to .030 all fouled.
Oil completely drained and changed with fully synthetic
Rave valves cleaned and set to factory spec.
Coil changed
Plug caps changed
plug wires changed
Airbox removed and cleaned.
All fuel lines checked.
Clutches checked.
Carbs in sync
Oil adjustment is perfect.
Compression 145 in both cylinders
Exhaust checked while running, belt side burns your hand other side is lukewarm. This may be caused by the plug already having been fouled when we checked, who knows.
One plug will always come out tan the other will come out covered in oil. Which cylinder it is varies. Doesn't have enough power to move itself, if you stand off of it and play with the throttle you can get it to move around at about 2mph. Which let me tell you was a lot of fun loading it back onto our ramp after we thought we had fixed it.
Here's the best part. Its continuously gotten worst. We're out of ideas.
Before we started fixing it it would top out at 6500-7200 with throttle play but idle on its own and run nice, just wasn't running like a 583 which was unacceptable to me. Now it won't idle on its own and tops out at 4500rpm. I'm honestly about one headache away from using it as a boat anchor.
6 pairs of plugs, half gapped to .018 half gapped to .030 all fouled.
Oil completely drained and changed with fully synthetic
Rave valves cleaned and set to factory spec.
Coil changed
Plug caps changed
plug wires changed
Airbox removed and cleaned.
All fuel lines checked.
Clutches checked.
Carbs in sync
Oil adjustment is perfect.
Compression 145 in both cylinders
Exhaust checked while running, belt side burns your hand other side is lukewarm. This may be caused by the plug already having been fouled when we checked, who knows.
One plug will always come out tan the other will come out covered in oil. Which cylinder it is varies. Doesn't have enough power to move itself, if you stand off of it and play with the throttle you can get it to move around at about 2mph. Which let me tell you was a lot of fun loading it back onto our ramp after we thought we had fixed it.
Here's the best part. Its continuously gotten worst. We're out of ideas.
Before we started fixing it it would top out at 6500-7200 with throttle play but idle on its own and run nice, just wasn't running like a 583 which was unacceptable to me. Now it won't idle on its own and tops out at 4500rpm. I'm honestly about one headache away from using it as a boat anchor.
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Also it doesn't look like oil smoke to me, more like rich condition smoking.Smoking like crazy, could be your inner oil seals gone bad. The 2 lines that go to the center of your engine ar to lube the cener bearings. There is seals on either side. If one, or both are bad, then it can injest ALOT of oil, and that wil make the sled run realy bad. One way to test, drail all the oil form the oil tank or just plug the lines, and run some premix. Easier to run a line form the fuel pump to a Jerry can with mixed in it, bypassing the tank. Drain all the straight gas out of the carbs too. Then, fire it up and see if it runs better. Only do this on the stand, and for a short bit. Your center bearing wil only have a little bit of oil in it, and if it is leaking there, it will suck it out. But, if you can now rev up on the stand past 4500, you know the problem.[/b]
Put it up on a stand and disconnected the drive belt, ran fine, revved to wherever you wanted it to. Block the clutch side carb and it would almost stall out, block the other side carb and it BARELY bogged. switched the plugs and both sides were bogging it when covered now but it was running extremely rich. It was still missing at idle though (which is 3000ishrpm with no belt attatched)
Completely out of ideas. I need help guys. Its Either going over a cliff/being left on the tracks or to the bombardier dealership i haven't decided on how much i want to spend yet. My experiance with Ski Doo has not been a good one. Maybe there's a reason why everyone I know swears by Polaris.
Just swapped plugs and it started bogging with both cyls and running crappy at idle? Sounds like ignition then. Bad coil maybe. INtermittent spark will make it look rich, and run like crap.
PS, trick to make fouled plugs like new again. Cook the heck out of the electrode endon a gas cookstove. Untill all the soot is burned off, they should work like new again. Saves some $$$ on all them plugs you initially fouled. My buds and I use this trick all the time when were out huniting and campin. Buds 4wheeler likes to foul plugs on slow trails. We allways buring a couple a night, adn using them again the next morning.
no it didn't bog down on its own, only when you covered up one of the carbs or the other.Just swapped plugs and it started bogging with both cyls and running crappy at idle? Sounds like ignition then. Bad coil maybe. INtermittent spark will make it look rich, and run like crap.[/b]
Before it didn't bog on one cylinder with the carb covered up. So it may have only been running on one cylinder.
Also backfired out the exhaust upon startup.
Can't be the coil, thats been changed out.
We'll check out those inner oil seals for sure. Any other ideas... Could it just be the carb's acting up?
It could be the fuel pump but i'm not sure how we'd test that.
Is there a fuel filter or a screen somewhere???
I think its not getting enough gas, fouling a plug as oil is still injected, then getting gas and running rich. Maybe we'll clean the floats and check the needles and such but the dude i bought it from said it just had all the carb work done...
Pull teh fuel line off, and point into a bucket. Pull the cord a few times. Gas should readily shoot outa the fuel line. Chances are it's working. Backfiring out exhaust is usually caused from fuel in the exhaust. Happens when you run a sled hard, then shut off quickly, without letting her idle down. Next time you fire, Pop, Backfire cause the gas in the pipe ignites. The floats could be stuck, or some crud in a needle/seat. There is a fuel filter in the tank, but with a flaot bowl carb, that would only cause a lean condition after running a while at higher RPM, when the carb's bowls run out of fuel. Not rigth away and on a stand.
Ok i hopefully fixed the problem, i honestly want to find out who did the carbs before we bought it and kick them hard in the head.
Don't get me wrong, the carbs are clean. Kudos to you on your skills with carb cleaner.. .. .. But here's what we found.
First the Carb on the Mag side has a blue dot, the motor has a red dot on that side, other carb and other side of motor have no dots.
Mag Side
Jetting 330
PTO side (clutch side)
Jetting - none because the jet was sitting in the float bowl unattached. Explains it running rich and on one cylinder... sigh.
Once reattatched the Jetting is 320. Possibly 220, its hard to tell now that its pretty rubbed off.
WTF! I'm going to put it back togethor as is, with the jet reattached and see how it runs. Then reverse the jets and i guarandamntee it will run 350% better.
Whats the stock jetting on these things??? Because im pretty sure what he has it set to is WAY to high. stock everything btw.
EDIT: although i say stock everything it looks like hte motors possibly been rebuilt, has fresh gaskets and what not, would ever so slightly boreing it out require larger jets?
PS: Taking it out tommorrow, if it hits top rpm i'll leave it, if not i'll rejet it properly and put the carbs on the right way.
The sad thing is the shop that supposedly did the carbs 3 days before i bought it is the 'most reputable' place in town.... not anymore.
Don't get me wrong, the carbs are clean. Kudos to you on your skills with carb cleaner.. .. .. But here's what we found.
First the Carb on the Mag side has a blue dot, the motor has a red dot on that side, other carb and other side of motor have no dots.
Mag Side
Jetting 330
PTO side (clutch side)
Jetting - none because the jet was sitting in the float bowl unattached. Explains it running rich and on one cylinder... sigh.
Once reattatched the Jetting is 320. Possibly 220, its hard to tell now that its pretty rubbed off.
WTF! I'm going to put it back togethor as is, with the jet reattached and see how it runs. Then reverse the jets and i guarandamntee it will run 350% better.
Whats the stock jetting on these things??? Because im pretty sure what he has it set to is WAY to high. stock everything btw.
EDIT: although i say stock everything it looks like hte motors possibly been rebuilt, has fresh gaskets and what not, would ever so slightly boreing it out require larger jets?
PS: Taking it out tommorrow, if it hits top rpm i'll leave it, if not i'll rejet it properly and put the carbs on the right way.
The sad thing is the shop that supposedly did the carbs 3 days before i bought it is the 'most reputable' place in town.... not anymore.
What elevation are you at? Having the jet fall out, that explais alot LOL. Anyways, my 583 runs good at 270-290 depending on air temp, adn I am at 3000Ft Yours may be a little different, I have a single pipe, and 38mm carbs. But I am thinkin you are probibally fairly close with 320/330
Oh ok, im at 1893ft. (according to wikipedia) Maybe they are jetted correctly then? Taking it out in 8 hours to find out how she's running.What elevation are you at? Having the jet fall out, that explais alot LOL. Anyways, my 583 runs good at 270-290 depending on air temp, adn I am at 3000Ft Yours may be a little different, I have a single pipe, and 38mm carbs. But I am thinkin you are probibally fairly close with 320/330[/b]
But should the PTO(clutch) side not be jetted larger than the mag side? I always thought the PTO needed the larger jet.
Right now its set at
PTO:320
MAG:330
BUT the carb on the mag side has a blue dot, while the motor has a red dot on the mag side, so im guessing the guy also put the carbs on backwards? Should I switch carbs/jets around?
-Thanks for all the help Bandit, if it wasn't for the internet i would have given up long before i took apart the carbs.
I'm not to sure as to which side would need the larger jet. My sled has allways taken the same jetting for both sides pretty much.
I looked through my book which only goes up to 95, but all (90-95) the 583's have a larger mag jet. I only found one year were they are the same and none that lists the PTO side as being the larger jet.But should the PTO(clutch) side not be jetted larger than the mag side? I always thought the PTO needed the larger jet.
Right now its set at
PTO:320
MAG:330[/b]
Alright thanks alot bandit and mach1I looked through my book which only goes up to 95, but all (90-95) the 583's have a larger mag jet. I only found one year were they are the same and none that lists the PTO side as being the larger jet.[/b]
. Going to take it out and see how she runs, if there was a praise smilie it'd go here.1 - 13 of 13 Posts
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