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Some Snowmobiling OK in Yellowstone

CODY, Wyo. - The National Park Service said Tuesday it is willing to allow snowmobiling to continue in Yellowstone and Grand Teton national parks but with "very strict limitations," including use of the latest technology to limit air pollution and noise.

Park Service officials met with state and county representatives from Idaho, Montana and Wyoming to discuss the controversial issue of winter activities in the two parks. The overall policy is still being refined.

The Park Service, during the final days of the Clinton administration, proposed phasing out snowmobiles from the parks by the winter of 2003-04. The snowmobile industry sued and the Bush administration agreed to order a new study of snowmobiling in the region.

The framework outlined Tuesday would allow cleaner-burning and quieter snowmachines. It also favors guided snowmobile tours, commercial and private, and proposes a management plan that can change to accommodate new research or studies on such things as wildlife impacts.

Many specifics were unclear, including how many snowmobiles would be allowed and the sort of training some riders would need to lead guided tours.

State and local officials and business owners from nearby communities praised the concept as balanced. Deputy West Yellowstone, Mont., Mayor Glen Loomis, who has a snowmobile business, called the dialogue "a breath of fresh air."

But conservationists criticized it as caving into the industry.

"The administration is acknowledging that snowmobile use is damaging and threatening to America's most cherished national parks and human health. Yet it is insisting on snowmobiling," said Jon Catton of the Greater Yellowstone Coalition. "This administration is saying the standard of protective management must bend to the interests of the snowmobile industry."

A final decision is expected in November, with the policy to take effect in the winter of 2003-04.
 

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and now a statement about the above news from the whiners!

WASHINGTON, -- The following is a statement of Steven Bosak, director, Motorized Abuse, National Parks Conservation Association, on the National Park Service's announcement on snowmobiles at Yellowstone and Grand Teton:

Today we heard with heartfelt disappointment that the National Park Service has decided to allow snowmobile use to continue in both Yellowstone and Grand Teton national parks. The specifics of what the Park Service intends to do are still sketchy, but one thing is abundantly clear. In taking this step, the Park Service is ignoring the clearly stated view of the American people.

The Park Service received 350,000 comments on this issue during the past year, more than the Service has received on a single issue ever. The comments ran more than four to one against snowmobiles. The people are telling the Bush Administration that they want snowmobiles out of Yellowstone and Grand Teton and a return to natural sounds and clean air in the parks.

Instead, the Park Service is giving the American people a park where natural sounds are burdened by the abrasive roar of the snowmobile and where a clean environment throughout winter will be polluted by exhaust fumes. The snowmobile industry claims to have designed snowmobiles that produce less pollution and noise, but the Environmental Protection Agency ( news - web sites) has debunked these claims.

The Bush Administration revived the study of snowmobiles in the parks at the behest of its friends in the snowmobiles industry. Now, in the face of the American people's heavy opposition to snowmobiles in the parks, the Bush Administration is giving its friends the go-ahead to pollute Yellowstone and Grand Teton. The American people have spoken clearly: They don't want snowmobiles in Yellowstone and Grand Teton. But the Bush Administration hasn't heard them over the sounds of the snowmobile.

 
 
 
 

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These people are sick.  

They dont care about the clean air, or loud noise and the so called damage that is being done to there park, NO.  All they want is snowmobiles baned because they are against our lifestyle.  

Even though the emmitions of snowmobiles at the worst of times has zero effect on our enviroment because there is a limited supply of sleds and the season is only a few months long, the industry and riders still are pushing for cleaner more efficent sleds.  SDi from bombardier and the 4 strokes are proof of this.  The manufactors are spending money for technology that isnt needed.  Sort of like WEED EATER spending money for DFI for there small 2 stroke engines.

If the enviromentalists want to accually do somthing to help the enviorment they can start by going to mexico where there are millions of cars with no emmitions devices at all.  Most of which are not in tune and use old style gas like leaded.  

They can also address the people in Salt lake city who injected iodine or some other chemical in to the clouds to force it to snow over the olymics meanwhile causing us to have a very dry winter.

They can also stop wasting 350000 sheets of paper containing comments from people that dont know what there talking about, About a sport then never did,  About emmitions and technologies they havnt got a clue about.  

Face the Facts Greenies.  Snowmobiling is invincable and the only way we are going to stop is if the snow is going to stop.
 

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Machzzzz1 @ June 26, 2002, 10:46am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Face the Facts Greenies.  Snowmobiling is invincable and the only way we are going to stop is if the snow is going to stop.[/b][/quote]
Actualy we aren't invincable at all.  About the only true statement from the greenie was that we are out numbered 4 to 1.  We have to stick together and hold our ground, because there ARE allot of people out to get "us".
As for the state parks....it's a start.
 

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Phazerhater.  

The fact is that we were outnumbered 4 to 1 and we are still getting the green light.

The reasons.

1. Greenies give 0$ to local buissnessis and economy.  Sledders give everything we got.  

2. Facts are the Sledding doesnt do crap to the enviroment.

3. Why are the animals in my neck of the woods all stressed out.  When i see a deer or a moose or a squrial it looks happy and sleds are the last thing on my mind.  Until the greenes can speek deer language and ask them what they think of sleds they should leave the animals out of the argument.  

4. All sledders stick together so nobody gains anyground on us.  Plus we have 4 HUGE manufactors that have a billion lawyers and they personnally hate the greenie organizations.  Who will win.  Greenies who exist because of donations or companies that have money and time to spare.  Plus the ability to have proper research done to have the proper facts.  

5. I think the american/canadian goverment knows that snowmobiling is what makes it posible for people to have buissnesses in the middle of nowhere and this allows the population to be more scattered.
 

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I want to know how many of these Greenies actually spend time in the middle of Yellowstone in the middle of winter.  If they ARE there taking in the scenery/BBQing veggie burgers/petting the mule deer, how did they get there?  Snowshoeing 20 miles into the woods?  Cross-country skis, maybe?  I doubt they ever get more than 3 miles from a paved road.
 

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Believing we (snowmobilers) as a group are invincible is exactly the kind of thinking that will be our demise. While we go about our lives...going to work so we can buy sleds to ride..there is a large radical euphorian society that believes the earth is our mother and that animals are more important than humans..giving their LIVES to take your rights away. In the US they have HUGE political lobbist groups with many of their positions supported by the mainstream democrats. They are tied into almost unending wealth with shear numbers that far exceed our own. They have in some way effected  EVERY type of motor vehicle and right now have snowmobiles in their sights.  They are like the Terminator...they are on a mission and they absolutely will not stop until you are dead. In MN we have seen their meddling with ATV and PWC restrictions, making them almost useless. We've had a snowmobile traction device fiasco that restricts the snowmobilers use on muti purpose trails that WE DEVELOPED. You can't tell me it's our wish to have 45 hp lawn mowers with tracks driving us around the millions and millions of acres in our national parks...and lucky to get that? They've already hurt us and we will need to be diligent, ingenious and lucky if we wish to survive in the way we want.
 

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I dont see the end of snowmobiling in Ontario anytime soon.Big brother cant afford to be without the large amount of $$$$$$$ sledding generates in Ontario.
 
 

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Yeah but if sledding gets shut down in the states, Bombardier, Arctic Cat, Polaris and yamaha would probably stop or slowdown in production and development of sleds.  There would be very little point to invest that kind of money in a market that is only canada.  

When i say invincible i dont mean lets sit back and nothing will happen.  If we keep fighting the way we have and sending thousands of letters to these crap organizations we will allways have the upper hand.  And the one main advantage is that every snowmobiler is educated since the can afford the merchindice to ride, but they also understand that most of these greenie orgs are talking and preaching crap.  They said they had 350000 letters from people supporting them.  How many of those where accually educated or seen a snowmobile.
 

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the greenies do get out there.where do you think the tape of some ,so-called snowmobilers,chasing bison in yellowstone came from? it came from someone whom would rather not see snowmobiles in yellowstone.this is a strong piece of evidence against us,granted this is not proof that we all do this because I know several whom would not chase wildlife. I would like to think no snowmobiler would harrass the wildlife,but there is proof otherwise.we all have met the fools on the trail there are many.
 

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There is a tape showing beelers chasing freakin buffalo?  ::rolls eyes:: niiiicccceee. Is this offical? Did they press charges or arrest anyone? Not that I don't believe morons from our side could do such a thing, but also wouldn't put it past the tactics of the enemy to stage such a snafu. If this is true it proves the point...they are out there..looking to piss in our cheerios anyway they can...watching us like hawks. The last thing we need to do is give them ammo!
 

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I have no problem with them having their "return of natural sounds and clean air"......keep all those tree huggin hippies out too, after all hippies, their kids and now their SUV's are not natural sounds either......I also suggest the landscape views return to normal as well by kicking "them" out as well to alleviate the trash they produce (and leave all over the ground), it is so bad in yellowstone that they have to have bear proof trash receptcales and put signs up telling hikers etc to pick up their trash. Over 1 million people a year visit, and how many sleds?
Keep those 1969 VW buses away too, those pollute as bad as any sled.
 

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What this means is that it is beginning of the end for two stroke machines, and it will only grow from this point, on other federal land. They are already trying to band some types of watercraft from Lake Powell and have already said no jet skis in Pictured Rocks National Lake Shore in Michigan.
So we have to stick together with this fight and Vote for the people that are helping us now.
Paul
 

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PurpleZRT @ June 26, 2002, 3:32pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">there is a large radical euphorian society that believes the earth is our mother and that animals are more important than humans..[/b][/quote]
Don't you mean utopian?
 

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (phazerhater @ June 26, 2002, 12:35pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Machzzzz1 @ June 26, 2002, 10:46am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Face the Facts Greenies.  Snowmobiling is invincable and the only way we are going to stop is if the snow is going to stop.[/b][/quote]
Actualy we aren't invincable at all.  About the only true statement from the greenie was that we are out numbered 4 to 1.  We have to stick together and hold our ground, because there ARE allot of people out to get "us".
As for the state parks....it's a start.
[/b][/quote]
Acutally, even that claim is questionable.  Every poll that I've seen, be it CNN, USA Today, or other poll that the environazies cannot toy with indicate the exact opposite result - 70 to 80 perceint in FAVOR of snowmobiling in the park.
 

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3 points.


1. PurpleZRT.  I agree with you compleatly.  I also would bet that the greenies would stage a sledder chassing the bisons around.  They would do anything to kick us out.  

2. Phj.  Please tell me how this spells the end of 2 stroke motors.  I think it spells the end of 2 stoke motors with carbs but the new technology SDI injection systems are surpasing 4 stroke engine emmitions plus adding power and light weight.  

But why are we even getting rid of 2 stokes.  Like i said before air polution and sledding have nothing in common.


Fact:  A average gas powered lawn mower puts out more air polution in 5 hours then a honda civic does all year. (im not 100% certain but i know the numbers are close.) Almost everyhouse hold has a gas powered lawnmore which are used 7 of the 12 months in canada and 12 of the 12 in warmer parts.  So look how insignificant sleds are.  

And last.  Are there any knowed groups that do exactly what the greenies do except fight for sledders.
 

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (revrnd @ June 26, 2002, 10:30pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PurpleZRT @ June 26, 2002, 3:32pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">there is a large radical euphorian society that believes the earth is our mother and that animals are more important than humans..[/b][/quote]
Don't you mean utopian?[/b][/quote]
LOL....actually no. Euphorian is a coined phrase from a local daily radio talk show called Garage Logic. Where real men are rated by their CI (cylinder index..yep thats right..the number of cylinders of all the internal combustion engines you own) Topics discuss the far off land of Euphoriaville where no one is ever in danger of being hurt or offended ( because everything they say is PC and nothing is allowed..and done while wearing helments) Mother earth and her creatures are the driving spiritual force and the fact that little by little these people are eating up our society of conventional values and beliefs. This process is known as the mystery....It's a show presented with good humor ( something rare in euphorians) but has a rather serious message. www.am1500.com...go to the town of garage logic.
 

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Machzzzz1 @ June 26, 2002, 10:11pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">but the new technology SDI injection systems are surpasing 4 stroke engine emmitions plus adding power and light weight.  [/b][/quote]
A 2 stroke will never burn cleaner than a 4 stroke. It is impossible. Not all fuel/oil is burned,2 strokes are not that efficeint.

I took my sled (2002 MXZ 700)to work to do some odds and ends on it. Just for the heck of it,I hooked up the sniffer to the pipe. This is a 5 gas anylizer.The readings were rediculously high.It pegged the hydrocarbons 10,000+ parts per million. Carbon monoxide was very high. Oxides of nitrogen were also very present.There is no doubt that a SDI engine will do better than a carbed,but no way near a 4 stroker.

Technology has been here for many years and none of the big 4 have taken advantage of it until recently. Maybe they do need a kick in the a$$ to clean up the sleds. I am not siding with the greenies,but they do have legit points.

I am the emission test specialist it my shop.I know what dirty air is all about.What took the manufacturers so long to come out with cleaner burners? With the crackdown of the EPA,why didnt the big 4 produce low emissions/high efficeint sleds years ago. Now we are seeing cleaner sleds being made,but it is from pressure from the greenies and the EPA. I think it took way too long to produce cleaner sleds.

Closing national parks is not the answer. The production of low emissions snowmobiles is the answer.

Just something to think about.
 

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Yeah..but the point is..there are soooo few of us relatively speaking and we burn so few gallons of gas relatively speaking  that we DO NOT have a significant impact realistically speaking. There was some rediculous study put out a couple yrs back COMPLETELY exaggerating total sled polutants. It was proven to be like 1000 times worse than reality, but it started this whole can of worms...even flat out lies screw us. The FACT is we could continue with things exactly as they are and not a leaf, nor bird, nor freakin butteryfly would be impacted in the slightest.  There are like what? a Billion automobiles, each burning near a 1000 gallons of gas..and all the trucks?..eiyeiyei...so who cares if a few hundred thousand sleds each burn a couple hundred gallons of gas a year and 5 gallons of oil. Besides that..in general the activity is in low populated northern climates in 4 month periods. This isn't about truth..it's about perception...or worse yet..projected truth. But..we're on the hook now..and it's only a matter of time.  Change is coming.
 

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MXZ7.

Hear me out.

Your sled just like mine have a problem.  Blow buy.  As air/Fuel and Oil are comming up from the crank into the chamber some blows right out the exhaust port which is open at the far side of the chamber.  But imagine if the only thing coming from the crank was air and oil and the fuel came from a Direct injector once the piston sealed of the exhaust port.  You have a close to perfect burn, Plus the engine is running right on the edge of lean because of the trio of sensors allowing it to do that safely.  

Now skidoo has taken this to the next step.  They have two injectors aimed at certen points in the chamber that allow for a higher percentage of fuel to be burned making a even closer to perfect burn.  

4 stokes are claiming a 75% reduction of emmitions.  So are the new 2 strokes.  

The only thing now is the oil.  Well my Opinion is that if synthetics are made buy a Lab, then they can be made to burn cleaner.  Look at blue marble oil and amsoil.  These oils burn so clean its not even funny.  Blue Marble did a test and after running there oil for a few hours the spark plug insolaters were still white and looked new.  

Here is a graph from evinrude showing the diffrence between yamaha 4 stokes and there DFI 2 strokes.  Look at all the advantages for us and the enviroment that the 2 stokes possess.  





So there Cleaner, Faster, Lighter, Cheaper.  It sound like the perfect combo for a sled.  

The only other thing i wouldnt mind seeing is a Rotary engine.  They got 3 power burns per crank.  I think some research should be done on that.
 
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