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Discussion Starter #1
Has the OFSC moved sledding in a positive direction for the future of sledding in Ontario or has it become a selve serving dictatorship that has forgotten its original mandate to bring together the clubs it now seems to have very little regard for? Will jumping into bed with the goverment prove to be a mistake? What do you think? :angry:
 

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Boy are you ever going to hear from IndySKS on that one :D

If we the average were more informed about the OFSC's operations and didn't keep us in the dark, we wouldn't be subject to make comments like yours. I've never heard anythingfrom our region's director. You would think the OFSC would want to get the word out to quell rumourmongering/dissent.

As an aside, while getting information for my motel listing, I saw an ad that said the business sold MTO/OFSC trail permits. Do they know something we don't know?

I was disappointed when the permits came out last year. The OFSC logo was a little speck in the corner. You wonder how much input the OFSC has when the Province decides on something. I guess the Province is putting up the big bucks, so they get a lot more say than they did in the past.

In this day in age, they want to see results from their "spending". Not just throwing money at the snowmobile industry.
 

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Oh boy here we go again ........
ZR Sled Head, All I can say is they are always looking for volunteers with all the right answers.

Revrnd ...as for being in the dark it's your right as a permit holder to have all the answers. If you club is not getting the information from your district board or Govenor or Operations Director ....them some body is breaking the chain of comunications. I only seem well informed because I make it my business to know whats going on for the betterment of my club and snowmobiling in the Province of Ontario . Not to mention I try to keep you guys informed so there is no misunderstandings.
MTO / OFSC Permit ?? Well thats not how they want it refered to but it actually does belong to the Province of Ontario . That was part of the Bill 101 thing.

Is the OFSC the greatest thing since sliced bread , not likely . Lets just keep in mind how much this sport has grown over the past few years and the fact that it is almost totally run by volunteers. There is 256 clubs in the OFSC each with there own ideas and concerns. It is impossible to please everyone, as a matter of a fact some of the things I was most dead set against at the OFSC AGM got voted in by a large majority. Not much I can do but go along with the flow . There is things the OFSC Board does that I disagree with and are sometimes very vocal to them about it , but after sitting and talking with Dennis Burns and some of the Major Commitee Chairs and some Govenors at the AGM I have a better understanding on why things are done the way they are.Take in to acount the growth the OFSC has had in the past few years and the increase in riders and the demand for smooth trails, and all the stumbling blocks along the way....I think they are doing a great job with what they have to work with. Where are we going in the future ?? I wish I knew !!!
 

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Indy, should I go thru the Club or directly contact the governor? if I don't hear back, should I contact the OFSC office? I've never had much luck when contacting the Barrie office. As I've said in the past we the members should automatically be mailed out info from the office.

It seems like negative billing. Unless you nitify them, they won't tell you anything.

I remember from my days on the club executive how the politicing at the AGM would go.

Also, I'd like to help out on the weekend, but when you're working 6 days a week & not by choice, it doesn't leave a free time. :(
 

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Discussion Starter #5
IndySKS, I never claimed to have all the answers and take exception to your comment. I'm not new to the local club and have worked on their equipment for several years as a volunteer, so please don't label me an armchair critic. At the latest convention how many issues were voted on by club delegates? NONE. If the OFSC truly represents the various clubs in the province as a unified voice how is it they no longer feel it necessary to accept their input as to the direction they take. Why did they flat out refuse to state their salaries? Why won't they deal with this rediculous 50k speed limit, its turned into a means by which the police are harassing the crap out of riders. Cruising through the Ganaraska with my family I was stopped doing 59k and listened to a 20 minute speel on how I was a danger to all others on the trail, the only danger was when the jackass jumped out from behind a tree and I almost hit another tree avoiding knocking him down. That was the 5th time I had been stopped that same day, no I wasn't speeding or doing anything else the other 4 times. They know that statistics have proved that speed until mixed with alcohol has almost nothing to do with sleddding accidents, so why the 50k limit and not a zero tolerance for alcohol? They claim clubs selling booze in their clubs houses will not be tolerated but many continue to do so. How long do their figure volunteers will be interested in being unpaid employees of tourism Ontario? How many clubs and their members realize the grooming equipment they think they own really belongs to the OFSC? I would bet if it weren't for the equipment issue many clubs would have told the OFSC/Tourism Ontario to stick it where the sun don't shine.
 

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I never once called you an armchair critic, I was trying to recrute a new volunteer with new answers, And anyhow it makes the discussion go on .
I don't know about the delegates not voting thing, I was there and seemed to have raised my hand a number of times, heck I even used the mircphones to express my opinion. They did not refuse to release their salaryies and as a matter of fact they said that that information coulld be gained through your govenor at any time, and I have since the AGM got the Salary info I was looking for and suggest you contact your govenor for the information if you really want to know.
As for being the unpaid volunteers for the Province of Ontario ....it's lots like that more and more each day . Especially with all the policy's and patrols they want us to put in place this winter , heck I'm going to stick a MTO higway patrol sticker on my sled. I wonder does the Province do direct depost or do I have to go and pick up my pay check ....lol ... oh thats right we don't get one.
That 50 kmh speed limit is a real joke but until the death rate drops and this insurance things gets over I can't see them changing it. I would say you got some real ignorant cops in your area if they are bothering you that much.

Infact the OFSC has adopted the zero tolerance to alcohol policy...what does it mean ? Basically nothing except that I am supposed to tell you that you are bad if you have a drink and get on your sled . Most people with half a brain and the respect for life wouldn't do it anyhow, the old days are over . How many of us in our younger years picked up a case a beer and went touring till all hours of the night and got totally wasted and were still driving around at 3 am . Would you have the courage to do it now ? NO
As for the clubs selling alcohol out of thier club houses that was something that went on in the past and you will slowly see phased out, every club is supposed to have an alcohol policy now or in the very near future that will not allow them to carry on this way.
And actually your Equipment only belongs to the OFSC if it used permit money from last season to buy it ( anything after bill 101 ) If your groomer was purchased say 5 years ago it belongs to that club and they can do as they wish with it if the club folded . If the club folded if could go to chairity or where ever the club deamed it to go . On the other hand if you purchased a groomer with money from last years trail passes them that groomer belongs to the OFSC only IF your club ceases to exist. It would them go to the district that you are in and the would decide where it goes. But only if your club folds can that be done .
Gettin late got to go to bed
Nice chattin with ya

Revrnd ....If there is something you have questions about your club sould help you out . As for mailings from the OFSC the do send out a booklet . It's called the Main Trail and most of the OFSC information is in there. Your club requests a certian amount of copies of it each month ( we get 35 ) I would sugest you aquire copies of it for answers. Most govenors don't like to get 15 or 20 phone calls each night with people complaining or wanting information so I would try the club route first. Or in worst case sinerio ask me .....lol
Good night
 

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holly crap am I long winded
Is there anyone that actually reads all that ?
 

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Indy, I know all about the irate phone calls. I'll see what I can do about the info. Yes, I do read your posts :D :sleeping:
 

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I have 1 question?

Now that the MTO is involved and seem to have a zero tollarance for sledding this year. Will a speeding violation affect my drivers licence and insurance or will it still just remain a set fine of 150 bucks.

Im not saying im a pure speeder but 50km on some of the extra wide rail lines are laughable. Im hoping that the MTO will set speeds for diffrent areas and do it knowing that machines today are much more stable then the ones built in the 70s of which the speed limits came from.

I heard from my dealer that the MTO came and told them that they are forced to fine if guilty no matter what. What this means is that if a sled is doing 90km in a trail that has blind corners and is very twisty he will get fined for speeding (possibly careless driving.) But if a guy is doing 90 in a trail that is wide and strait a cop might use his better judgement and let him go. But the MTO will be fining any officer caught doing this $50000.00 if they let anyone speeding go. So now the police officers dont and cant use any of there own judgment or risk being fined.

Not to mention that they are equiped with REV 800s (police package) and will be trained to use them.

Signing up with the Goverment will be the worst thing for the sport. They only want our money. :cussing:
 

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If the driver cant go 70km or hes driving a vintage machine that is unsafe at 70km then DONT GO 70km. But to put a limit on someone like me with a Mach Z which is still at idle when going 50km is insane.
 

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Indy,

I too read your posts, and appreciate the good honest information.

As for the OFSC, I think they are doing the best they can, with the situation they find themselves in. The Gov't thing was probably a necessity at the time, and I hope it doens't hurt us all in the long run.

The way I see it, you do the best you can, with the cards your dealt. There will always be nay sayers, who have different opinions, and all the right answers, but until they understand all the contributing factors, they are just making an uninformed opinion.

Not that their opinions or ideas are bad, but just stating them, doesn't help to solve the problem. Get involved if you feel strongly about it, and try to make some good changes. If you don't have the time, for whatever reason (work is mine), then live with what you get, and appreciate the people who helped us get this far.

Thats my rant.

FishHog
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I'm not so sure the limit is insane but it certainly does not reflect the capabilities of late model sleds. Even the smaller sleds (no not the minis) feel strange riding at low speeds. I could be content riding 50k on my '68 Olympic (maybe) but certainly not my 02 ZR.
Since there are already stats available from several sources that do not support the current speed limit as being an effectiove means by which to reduce accidents, I would seriously doubt we'll see the limit change. Bringing into law and enforcing a zero alcohol tollerance would be the best step to reducing on trail accidents. Lets not forget a large number of accidents and especially fatalities happen off trail and almost always are booze related. So why keep pushing enforcement of a speed limit that is clearly out of date and has so little to do with the problem its felt to cause....maybe your right it is insane.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
INDY,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that any grooming equipment bought at any time (not just post 101) with trail permit money is the property of the OFSC. I know for a fact that at least a couple of clubs feel that to be true as its the only reason they did not opt out of the OFSC during last season.
Maybe jumping into bed with the Ont. gov. was a necessary evil at this time but it would be impossible to convince me it will be good for the sport in the long run. Trust me as a person that lives for the winter and sledding I hope I'm wrong.
Been nice chatting ......Rick.
 

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ZR Sled Head, I'll do some reasearch into that ownership of the groomer thing but we went through all that last winter and were told that if we were to keep the groomer we owned (post bill 101 ) it was ours to do as we liked with if the club was to fold. Our members were insistant on buying a new groomer last fall and to pay for it ( which we did in 8 months ) we had to used some of last winters trail pass money. Now that we have done that we would have to surrender the Groomer to the OFSC and our District if our club decided to fold .
There is no possibility of any club leaving the OFSC and starting out on their own...it just couldn't happen . There is no insurance company that would cover them for liability on the trails . It might be nice to think a club could go on it's own but I don't think it will ever happen .
I'm not sure being with the Goverment is a good thing either but it was the clubs ( mostly Northern ones I would imagine ) that pushed for manditory permits and this is what we got. So far it has seemed to back fire and permiit sales have gone down , the only disrtict that had a sizeable increase ( 478 ) was District 5 which has very little crown land that bill 101 would effect and had no snow last winter to speak of .
So far this zero tollerance is not law it's just a position the that the ISC and the CCSO have taken and are trying to get all snowmobile organizations across Canada and the States to adopt .The law is .08mg of alcohol in your bood and to change it to zero means changing the Laws of Ontario . You never know what the future will bring .
We'll I got to go type up a report about the AGM for my club meeting tomorrow night....see ya
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Yes I would agree on who pushed for the mandatory permit. Thanks for the info.....Rick.
 
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