all this talk about a-arm suspension is maing me sick ,95%of people will never notice a difference between the two.i know the benifits of a arms.but there is also a down fall a-arms.all the force is taken through the front end and once the front is damaged its un fixable.people will try to repair them but they are rarely ever straight.you can replace the bulk head and thats about the best that can be done and thats very expensive.crash a ifs trailing arm sled,easy fix 99% of the time and cheap to fix.some times its worse than that but not as bad as a-arms .
Trailing arm ifs
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In my eyes and the eyes of the mags that I have read there is no dif between the two.Cat used to have the best cornering in the industry untill travel numbers went up along with the hieght of sleds and now they have just as much inside lift as the rest.People say that for allout ditch banging that the arms are better but them are only the cat people that have not ridden a new trailing arm machine.I ride hard and have ridden both cat and polaris and I do not feel any dif between the two actually I think I have more control on the Polaris compared to the cat.
As far as the ditch running over mogols etc I see the front of sleds very seldom even touching the ground weather it be POl,DOO,CAT and the only thing doing the work is the rear and not the front.
so A arms better than trailing arms is all hype from the Cat riders and that is all it is.I will more than likly Ride Polaris no matter what they do,Unless they make something as ugly as the rev or that crayola concept thing that people post about.
As far as the ditch running over mogols etc I see the front of sleds very seldom even touching the ground weather it be POl,DOO,CAT and the only thing doing the work is the rear and not the front.
so A arms better than trailing arms is all hype from the Cat riders and that is all it is.I will more than likly Ride Polaris no matter what they do,Unless they make something as ugly as the rev or that crayola concept thing that people post about.
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3,015 Posts
OK, here's the deal. They really should do away with trailing-arm suspension. It isn't supposed to work. It has zero degrees of freedom. The only reason these suspensions move is because of material flex and tolerances. In Utopia this type of suspension would be a rigid structure. Linkages can get complicated, and the snowmobile manufacturers really messed up on this one.
performancex: That's true, theoretically, but the fact still is that most people can't feel any difference...
The whole concept of trailing arm susp's is 'the wrong way around', It's based on the rear susp. of an INDY racecar. Bobby Unser (who drove for the Chapparal race team back then) just turned it 180deg. and voila! An IFS trailing arm sled... If you follow the arc that the ski spindle creates during susp. travel, you'll see that it moves FORWARD a bit - and generates a shock back into the sled. The only way to get rid of this is to have a trailing arm that is level when susp. is fully extended, Yamaha tries to minimize this by having very long trailing arms instead.
The A-arm susp. doesn't have this problem. All susp. movement is directed backwards.
BUT - trailing arms works nevertheless! Have you heard the old saying: If It Works, Don't Fix It...
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Sorry for all technoblabla
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The whole concept of trailing arm susp's is 'the wrong way around', It's based on the rear susp. of an INDY racecar. Bobby Unser (who drove for the Chapparal race team back then) just turned it 180deg. and voila! An IFS trailing arm sled... If you follow the arc that the ski spindle creates during susp. travel, you'll see that it moves FORWARD a bit - and generates a shock back into the sled. The only way to get rid of this is to have a trailing arm that is level when susp. is fully extended, Yamaha tries to minimize this by having very long trailing arms instead.
The A-arm susp. doesn't have this problem. All susp. movement is directed backwards.
BUT - trailing arms works nevertheless! Have you heard the old saying: If It Works, Don't Fix It...
Sorry for all technoblabla
I am all for innovation on todays suspension, but the polaris's IFS has been around for a long time and seems to still be going strong. The system is practical and does a fine job.............heck my 500 edge has spanked 800 cats on the trails without any problems . It is all based on the rider.
I have done woops at 70mph and it was smooth as silk!!!!
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I have done woops at 70mph and it was smooth as silk!!!!
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2,472 Posts
Ok, so here's my take.
It's not always about what the latest and greatest gimmick is in my book. It's about what's available, what works, and what I can afford (both to purchase AND maintain). My bet is when the smoke clears and the ad men find something else to BS us about, that the trailing arm machines are going to be around for quite awhile. I've ridden both systems and agree with some others that properly set up, they both work. I won't be turning my back on them only because they aren't "cool" anymore.
The specialized machines we see and love to watch at the MX tracks are just that, specialized. They are not necessarily the best machine available for use on the mountains, lakes, or groomed trails, even though they are very obviously at home on the MX tracks, which is hardly how most of us run, or even intend to run. It seems like the last few years the latest and greatest has to be a twin, but it appears now that even though they have some good virtues, maybe they aren't the greatest thing available in real life, or at least there isn't as much difference as the ad men would like for us to have believed. A lot of guys that jumped on that band wagon are now missing their triples.
I guess my point is that I for one, am not going to believe that just because it won on an MX track last weekend, it will fulfill what I expect a machine to be or do. It's been a long time since I was on a track, and I don't think I'll be making a buying decision based on what the machine I'm considering will do there. I don't buy, drive, or pay exta for hype. I go with what I think will work, and then, only if it's at a price I can afford.
My 2c,
AL
It's not always about what the latest and greatest gimmick is in my book. It's about what's available, what works, and what I can afford (both to purchase AND maintain). My bet is when the smoke clears and the ad men find something else to BS us about, that the trailing arm machines are going to be around for quite awhile. I've ridden both systems and agree with some others that properly set up, they both work. I won't be turning my back on them only because they aren't "cool" anymore.
The specialized machines we see and love to watch at the MX tracks are just that, specialized. They are not necessarily the best machine available for use on the mountains, lakes, or groomed trails, even though they are very obviously at home on the MX tracks, which is hardly how most of us run, or even intend to run. It seems like the last few years the latest and greatest has to be a twin, but it appears now that even though they have some good virtues, maybe they aren't the greatest thing available in real life, or at least there isn't as much difference as the ad men would like for us to have believed. A lot of guys that jumped on that band wagon are now missing their triples.
I guess my point is that I for one, am not going to believe that just because it won on an MX track last weekend, it will fulfill what I expect a machine to be or do. It's been a long time since I was on a track, and I don't think I'll be making a buying decision based on what the machine I'm considering will do there. I don't buy, drive, or pay exta for hype. I go with what I think will work, and then, only if it's at a price I can afford.
My 2c,
AL
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3,635 Posts
Trailing arms have one advantage- lower production cost, and that's it.
A-arms handle better and are stronger.
You can argue about the handleing if you want, because that's hard to prove, but the strength of a-arms is clear cut.
And to the person who said that you will destry the bulkhead if you wreck a machine with a-arms, you're showing your expirience with trailing arms.
The a-arms will give and bend before the bulk head does, but they won't bend easily.
Trailing arms bend easily, and if you strike something the wrong way it transmits the energy back to th etunnel and will ruin that too.
I'm speaking from expirience.
As for trailing arms being around for a long time to come. I don't think so. Ski-doo and Yamaha have finally caved in. In about two years A-arms will have spread to their full line-ups.
Next year Polaris will have to come up with something new, and I wouldn't be suprised to see A-arms.
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