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Discussion Starter #1
Last winter @ Lillabelle in Cochrane Ont. it was around -30* F & our 2 stroke sleds were difficult to start. 2 fellows there had 4 stroke Yammis that had the hose heater. They said they plugged them in for about half an hour before they wanted to go & had no problems starting.

Fast forward to the present. My buddy has got a new Apex. I asked him today @ the Kawartha Slederama, if he was getting the inline heater added. He said his dealer said the setup was kind of Mickey Mouse. I said, I hope it starts OK this winter when we're up north. My nephew (he's 10) was looking @ the Apex & said it didn't have a pull cord for starting. I said it was only electric start. I said to Brad & my buddy that he'd better take a set of booster cables.

Has anyone used the inline hose heater on their Apex, Vector, etc? Did they work & any idea why the dealer wouldn't recommend using 1?
 

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No never used them , never had a problem starting any rx1 or apex in -20 cold out all night. Cant say the same for the SDI doos though ,maybe they should make a heeater for that relay box or take it out at night and go to sleep with it to keep it nice and warm :sleeping:
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The reason I asked is that the sled he had last winter was a SRX 700. It was just as difficult if not worse than our SDI (relay acted up in Cochrane) & non-SDI sleds on the trip. In Timmins we took turns pulling the rewind over. I didn't know how a 4 stroke 4 cyl would compare to a 2 stroke 3 cyl for starting in the low temps.

Don't forget that when the temps drop not only does the internal engine friction increase, the efficiency of the battery decreases. The chart I've attached is from a high school automotive textbook from the 80s. I'm not sure if the figures would still apply or not.

I was talking to a co-worker that has ridden his '05 or '06 (not sure of the year) Apex in northern Ontario & Quebec. It was -36* C (almost -40* F) in Mattagami PQ & he had no problem starting it. He does carry a small pair of jumper cables just in case.

These are a couple of replies I got elsewhere:

As far as the inline heater all the dealers I've asked about it say its a waste of money. One dealer told me that it will really mess with the fuel injected sleds as the the computer thinks the sled is warmer than it is and it fouls the plugs. They said it would'nt do that on my carb'ed Vector but still, I shouldn't bother. [/b]
I deal with -20 to -40 alot here in Fairbanks, AK and I too looked into the in-line heater. They will heat up the coolant, but they do not circulate. When it comes to heating stagnant fluid I opted to put a heater on the oil resivoir. Just get a high wattage heater pad and silicone it on the oil tank. When starting a cold motor I'd prefer to have warm oil than warm anti-freeze.[/b]
 

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I installed one on my '06 Attak, but never needed it. The coldest morning was -10F and it started with out a problem
 

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I have started my sled in -38f.. I turned the key a couple quick times just to get things moving and then it fired right up and idled, the 2 strokers I ride with had to pull there cords quite a few times to get things moving...They all started but mine was the easiest to start....My uncle has a Venture Lite ( Phazer Type ) he left it out at camp with just a cover for a week, the temps were extremely cold all week ...The sled fired no problem we didn't think it would ..........
 

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If I dont do the choke trick on my 2stroke its a bear in the morning.
 

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I had a coolant heater on my ATTAK. That sled would not start at -40F without it. It is possible, although highly unlikely it is me you are refering to as I was in Cochrane last Feb. around the 12th at the place that has the igloos. When it got to be -40 I would plug it in for 30 minutes and it would start like you just shut it off. W/O plugging it in, it would crank and sputter for about 20 seconds and then the battery would go flat. The heater isn't a flimsey unit. Very easy to install and well worth the money. To be honest, the Yamaha heater would probably work on any sled. Highly recomend it. I heard guys up there saying that they started there APEX all the time at -40 with no trouble, no heater, I just don't beleive that.
 

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Why don't you believe that. cars, trucks, snowblowers, generators they all start in extreme temps..So why wouldn't a 4 stroke snowmachine start......We have a large Yamaha generator up at camp, it sits in the cold for weeks on end it starts everytime we get there .....So why would a 4 stroke snowmobile be any different ......
 

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The reason I don't beleieve they start all the time is because we have two people in our group with Vectors and when it gets to about -30 they will not start w/o removing the airbox cover and getting hairdryers in there to heat things up, even at that they crank until the battery is weak and we have to pull up next to them and hook up to the jumpers to spin them. The other reason is because I've had YAMAHA 4 strokes since 2002 and never had one start at -40 with out it either having a heater or being a hassle if it didn't. Not all cars start at -40. This is an extreme condition. There's a reason that there's cord drops provided at parking stalls in Northern Ontario, things don't like to be reliable when it gets that cold. I'm sure your generator starts, I've just seen to many 4 strokes not start at this temp. Just what I've witnessed. I'm sure some sleds start, but in general, there is a much greater chance of things starting at 0 than -40.
 

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I would be curious to see why some 4 strokes will start and others won't. Is it oil, starter, battery etc... I never had an issue with mine, but mine is new, I hope te older they get the harder they are to start....It's true about the trucks I have seen at -40 we had to go out to where we park are trucks ( about 5 kms for camp), mine started right away but I had a new battery and a new starter ( not saying it didn't hesitate ) but others wouldn't start..There was bout 30 trucks out there a lot of the guys were saying that they wish that they had but a new battery in ......A few guys put Coleman stoves under there oil pans and let them warm up the oil pans, others brought out the generators in sleighs and plugged there trucks in...
 

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No never used them , never had a problem starting any rx1 or apex in -20 cold out all night. Cant say the same for the SDI doos though ,maybe they should make a heeater for that relay box or take it out at night and go to sleep with it to keep it nice and warm :sleeping:[/b]
Yeah, tell me about it... I pulled my guts on my SDI one cold morning in Kirkland Lake a couple of years ago. I thought the sled was totally dead, but about 30 pulls later it fired up as if nothing was wrong.
 

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Last winter @ Lillabelle in Cochrane Ont. it was around -30* F & our 2 stroke sleds were difficult to start. 2 fellows there had 4 stroke Yammis that had the hose heater. They said they plugged them in for about half an hour before they wanted to go & had no problems starting.

Fast forward to the present. My buddy has got a new Apex. I asked him today @ the Kawartha Slederama, if he was getting the inline heater added. He said his dealer said the setup was kind of Mickey Mouse. I said, I hope it starts OK this winter when we're up north. My nephew (he's 10) was looking @ the Apex & said it didn't have a pull cord for starting. I said it was only electric start. I said to Brad & my buddy that he'd better take a set of booster cables.

Has anyone used the inline hose heater on their Apex, Vector, etc? Did they work & any idea why the dealer wouldn't recommend using 1?[/b]
HI guys,

I am from Cochrane and where you stayed was at the North Adventure Inn. I have a attak 2006 and last year that machine started in every bit of cold weather that we had at even while at the camps. I have installed the inline heater to save on wear and tear of the motor. THe device I do believe was originated for the Volkswagon cars since they don't have block heaters and Yamaha decided to take this heater and install their own instructions of how to install it in the four stroke bodies. It is a messy job but have not had the chance to try it yet. Shall let you know shortly.
 

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I would be curious to see why some 4 strokes will start and others won't. Is it oil, starter, battery etc... I never had an issue with mine, but mine is new, I hope te older they get the harder they are to start....It's true about the trucks I have seen at -40 we had to go out to where we park are trucks ( about 5 kms for camp), mine started right away but I had a new battery and a new starter ( not saying it didn't hesitate ) but others wouldn't start..There was bout 30 trucks out there a lot of the guys were saying that they wish that they had but a new battery in ......A few guys put Coleman stoves under there oil pans and let them warm up the oil pans, others brought out the generators in sleighs and plugged there trucks in...[/b]
Didn't you just state in your previous post (5:26 pm) that all kinds of cars and trucks start in extreme temperatures? Now you are telling us about all these trucks that won't start?!?
 

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Yes I did post this, I was just replying because one of the posts said he didn't believe that 4 stroke sleds started in extreme temps. I was just stating that every day 4 strokes engines start in extreme temps..So why would 4 stroke sleds be any different ..Sure some of those trucks wouldnt start but if you read the whole post you would have read that the reason they did not start is because of weak batteries ....Thanks for coming out Homer
 

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Yes I did post this, I was just replying because one of the posts said he didn't believe that 4 stroke sleds started in extreme temps. I was just stating that every day 4 strokes engines start in extreme temps..So why would 4 stroke sleds be any different ..Sure some of those trucks wouldnt start but if you read the whole post you would have read that the reason they did not start is because of weak batteries ....Thanks for coming out Homer[/b]
So you tested all the batteries to verify that they were in fact weak, and had they been new batteries, all the vehicles would have started? Or is it just the fact that 4 strokes are hard starting in extremely cold temps. 2 strokes are also difficult to start in extremely cold temps but I think the biggest issue is the power required to turn a 4 stroke over compared to a 2 stroke. Cars and trucks have much larger batteries than the sleds do. Granted, the car/truck engines require more current to turn them over, but I would say the ratio of CCA to required current to turn over the car/truck engine is much better than that of the sled.
 

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So you tested all the batteries to verify that they were in fact weak, and had they been new batteries, all the vehicles would have started? Or is it just the fact that 4 strokes are hard starting in extremely cold temps. 2 strokes are also difficult to start in extremely cold temps but I think the biggest issue is the power required to turn a 4 stroke over compared to a 2 stroke. Cars and trucks have much larger batteries than the sleds do. Granted, the car/truck engines require more current to turn them over, but I would say the ratio of CCA to required current to turn over the car/truck engine is much better than that of the sled.[/b]
I can't but help wonder why anyone would want to pull over or turn over a sled at minus 40F or C when they could have plugged it in briefly before hand to add any amount of heat...

Most people make a point of plugging in their car or truck at those temps when they can... Only when not possible do they chance a cold start...

I've heard the heaters work great and aid in starting... I'm thinking of installing one on my 700 tripple two stroker... I can't budge the rope at minus 35 C, let alone starting at minus 40...

One thing not mentioned here that might be a good idea is a battery blanket.... Very low wattage and extremely effective at keeping battery at near optimum performance for a given cold temperature..

my 2 cents.. tj
 

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My point to this whole subject was referring to Mr. Freeze about not believing that the Apex,s start in -40 weather all the time..I ride with 3 4 stroke sleds up at camp and we have some extremely cold nights , the coldest -47c ..And are 4 strokes have always started, sure they sputtered, and idled rough for a min ...A in line heater is a good idea if you have a power source to plug it in to, When we go to a trappers shack for the night ( to hit the really good fishing lakes ) there is no power so an in line heater is useless.. Sure they make sense and I might consider getting one if I ever have an issue with starting it , but for now I don't need it ....I have never plugged in any of my vehicles.......
 

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Here's some info for you guys. The heater has not given a problem yet... If you guys are playing with the newer 4 strokes in the powder and parking them at night in real cold weather the machine may not start in the morning. Yamaha has not recognized this problem since a good portion of sleds are riden in the south. What happens is that the fuel injection relay freezes since it is not insulated properly and your fuel injection will not function. Yamaha does have a replacement relay on the market for about 15.00 but does not warranty it since there are not alot of complaints. If it does freeze it is located on the belt drive side and it the third relay from the panel sitting on the machine. Secondly... the batteries going dead is another issue which dealers are not telling their customers. All fuel injection models need to have the battery charged or place on a trickle charger sold by yamaha or other locations atleast once before the season and perhaps during the season when you use extreme battery power.. Reason being that the charging system is not strong enough to charge like a car but can maintain a certain voltage level. So when you hit the cold weather and has not been charged... it will not start or have very little cranking power..that may be a reason. Found these two problems out the other day. Maintenance is required. With the gear reduced starters... I don't know of a machine yet with proper battery maintenance and a good relay that has not started in Northern Ontario, including carburated models.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
During our trip in February there was a Phazer & Venture that would not start @ the lodge we were staying @. Temp was -21*C. My buddy's Apex started.

My '07 MXZ 600SDI started, then I shut it off after 5 minutes to get dressed to leave. Wouldn't restart. Pulled the relays & held them for a couple of minutes. Sled fired up. I think in the future I'll just leave the sled running once I get it started.

About your generator starting in the cold. It's a much smaller motor & isn't the rewind the only method of starting? W/ the 4 stroke sleds if the battery was flat or dead, & you don't have another battery around, how do you start it?

I'd have to agree w/ the earlier post that a car or truck battery is a lot more robust than a sled battery. In northern Ontario or Quebec, most people would plug their vehicles in. A buddy worked @ Denison in Elliot Lake in the 80s & the parking lot @ the mine had outlets to plug your vehicle in.

So, after the winter we've had do any of you have any tips for getting a 4 stroke started easily when the temps drop into the -30s?
 

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Actually you can pull start a 4 stroke sled , but if it's cold out you will be there a long while, the gen we have is electric start and yes it does have a cord back up.. My point to this whole fourm was to the non believers about the 4 strokes not starting in really cold temps, they will start and yes a block heater is the way to go, I will be looking into one this summer ........
 
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